UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Switch Review

[mansr]

I'm sure @Superdad can clarify

Gunning for the joke of the week award?

 

[pozz]

View attachment 53989

The comma splice just kills me.

 

[Jinjuku]

Oh, the red herrings are flying:

"
Except that the funny thing is, while the Audio Precision Amir worships at is a very nice general purpose unit, it is not that well suited to measuring jitter in DACs. What’s that? Heresy! Yet if you look at the specifications for the ADC in the top-of-the-line APx555, you will see that its own jitter is 600 picoseconds! So that will swamp the jitter details of a device under test—which might be in the range of 10s of picoseconds--or ideally less.

"

 

[DonH56]

I only see 600 ps in the digital I/O modules... The ones for AES/S/PDIF, not on the analog inputs. Whatever. There is irony in someone unknowing and unwilling to test criticizing SOTA test equipment.

 

[March Audio]

Oh, the red herrings are flying:

"
Except that the funny thing is, while the Audio Precision Amir worships at is a very nice general purpose unit, it is not that well suited to measuring jitter in DACs. What’s that? Heresy! Yet if you look at the specifications for the ADC in the top-of-the-line APx555, you will see that its own jitter is 600 picoseconds! So that will swamp the jitter details of a device under test—which might be in the range of 10s of picoseconds--or ideally less.

"

And precisely how has Alex concluded that sub 10 ps of jitter on a dac output is audible?

Did he just make that up like the rest of his nonsense that surrounds this product.

Come on @Superdad tell us how you established audibility limits for jitter. Or is this just yet another case of making up lies?

Alex, do you even understand what jitter is and how it manifests itself in an audio signal? From your comments it's abundantly clear that you don't.

So we have no measured difference in a dac output jitter to levels below -150dB. Do you know how stupid it is to claim improvements below this level are audible? Its utterly moronic to do so, but if the cap fits.......

 

[Jinjuku]

Isn't 600 ps = 0.6ns?

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

superman's dad doesn't need measuring equipment

 

[SIY]

And precisely how has Alex concluded that sub 10 ps of jitter on a dac clock is audible?

Am I missing something? I thought that this particular fraud was supposed to eliminate jitter in the ethernet connection?

 

[March Audio]

Am I missing something? I thought that this particular fraud was supposed to eliminate jitter in the ethernet connection?

And then by definition eliminate it in the dac output.

The logical fallacy of this assertion beggers belief. It is either a fundamental lack of technical understanding on @Superdad Alex and Swensons behalf, or just marketing lies.

 

[SIY]

And then by definition eliminate it in the dac output.

The logical fallacy of this assertion beggers belief. It is either a fundamental lack of technical understanding on @Superdad Alex and Swensons behalf, or just marketing lies.

Well, your mention of the DAC clock (which is the important one, but unrelated to what this ripoff is supposed to "fix") triggered my reaction.

I have no doubt in my mind that the misrepresentations are knowing and deliberate. But I don't think anyone here would think any differently, so as Thomas said, not worth the keystrokes.

 

[March Audio]

Well, your mention of the DAC clock (which is the important one, but unrelated to what this ripoff is supposed to "fix") triggered my reaction.

I have no doubt in my mind that the misrepresentations are knowing and deliberate. But I don't think anyone here would think any differently, so as Thomas said, not worth the keystrokes.

Yes sorry I changed it

It's just that Alex keeps banging on about measuring and eliminating jitter on the dac clock. They won't even show us these measurements they allegedly made so it's safe to conclude they didn't happen and it's more made up lies.

 

[March Audio]

Well, your mention of the DAC clock (which is the important one, but unrelated to what this ripoff is supposed to "fix") triggered my reaction.

I have no doubt in my mind that the misrepresentations are knowing and deliberate. But I don't think anyone here would think any differently, so as Thomas said, not worth the keystrokes.

I think liars and fraudsters should be exposed. It also has a wider impact as people will read and some will decide to find out more and educate themselves on the subject.

 

[amirm]

Oh, the red herrings are flying:
"Except that the funny thing is, while the Audio Precision Amir worships at is a very nice general purpose unit, it is not that well suited to measuring jitter in DACs. What’s that? Heresy! Yet if you look at the specifications for the ADC in the top-of-the-line APx555, you will see that its own jitter is 600 picoseconds! So that will swamp the jitter details of a device under test—which might be in the range of 10s of picoseconds--or ideally less."

As Don noted, that is a spec for the digital input and output in the analyzer, not "ADC:"

There are three types of digital I/O on APx555: Unbalanced (S/PDIF), Balanced (AES/EBU) and Optical (Toslink). Above is giving the jitter specs for those.

I don't use any of the digital interfaces to measuring jitter. I use the analog output of the DAC which by definition goes into the ADC on the APx555. A spectrum analysis there will then show all jitter sources including the analyzer itself. Here is an example from a great DAC:

We see that the worse case spike is at -140 dB which is equivalent to the low order bit of a 24-bit PCM sample. 600 picoseconds would create a spike that is at just -97 dB or a 16-bit audio sample. There is clearly no spike at -97 dB.

Bottom line, he (Alex or is it John?), confusing the brake for accelerator in a car and is claiming to be a race car driver. There is no such residual jitter in APx555 analyzer.

This is the problem folks. People supposedly writing papers about "jitter" don't understand what it really is, how it is measured, and how it manifests itself. They are running with Wikipedia definitions and inventing the rest.....

 

[Jinjuku]

As Don noted, that is a spec for the digital input and output in the analyzer, not "ADC:"

View attachment 54047

There are three types of digital I/O on APx555: Unbalanced (S/PDIF), Balanced (AES/EBU) and Optical (Toslink). Above is giving the jitter specs for those.

I don't use any of the digital interfaces to measuring jitter. I use the analog output of the DAC which by definition goes into the ADC on the APx555. A spectrum analysis there will then show all jitter sources including the analyzer itself. Here is an example from a great DAC:

We see that the worse case spike is at -140 dB which is equivalent to the low order bit of a 24-bit PCM sample. 600 nanoseconds would create a spike that is at just -97 dB or a 16-bit audio sample. There is clearly no spike at -97 dB.

Bottom line, he (Alex or is it John?), confusing the brake for accelerator in a car and is claiming to be a race car driver. There is no such residual jitter in APx555 analyzer.

This is the problem folks. People supposedly writing papers about "jitter" don't understand what it really is, how it is measured, and how it manifests itself. They are running with Wikipedia definitions and inventing the rest.....

Remember he was squawking at 600 picoseconds. I thought 0.6 ns and how that's no where near the thresh hold of audibility.

 

[amirm]

Remember he was squawking at 600 picoseconds. I thought 0.6 ns and how that's no where near the thresh hold of audibility.

I made a typo. My computation was for 600 picoseconds. Corrected.

 

[pkane]

As Don noted, that is a spec for the digital input and output in the analyzer, not "ADC:"

View attachment 54047

There are three types of digital I/O on APx555: Unbalanced (S/PDIF), Balanced (AES/EBU) and Optical (Toslink). Above is giving the jitter specs for those.

I don't use any of the digital interfaces to measuring jitter. I use the analog output of the DAC which by definition goes into the ADC on the APx555. A spectrum analysis there will then show all jitter sources including the analyzer itself. Here is an example from a great DAC:

We see that the worse case spike is at -140 dB which is equivalent to the low order bit of a 24-bit PCM sample. 600 picoseconds would create a spike that is at just -97 dB or a 16-bit audio sample. There is clearly no spike at -97 dB.

Bottom line, he (Alex or is it John?), confusing the brake for accelerator in a car and is claiming to be a race car driver. There is no such residual jitter in APx555 analyzer.

This is the problem folks. People supposedly writing papers about "jitter" don't understand what it really is, how it is measured, and how it manifests itself. They are running with Wikipedia definitions and inventing the rest.....

Even 10ps jitter will be very noticeable on an FFT plot. Here's jitter produced by DISTORT app, 600ps and 10ps sine jitter components added to 12kHz test signal. I'd like to know where @Superdad sees anything close to this level of 600ps or 10ps sidebands in the AP loopback capture.

For fun, I also added a 500fs jitter component -- notice the level of -158dB... Just in case anyone claims that femto-second jitter is audible and must be 'regenerated' in some way

 

[JohnYang1997]

OMG. The specification is the sum of jitter or the integration in that bandwidth. Not at single frequency. At individual frequencies, AP has only single digit ps jitter from low to mid frequency. And after 1khz it's lower than 1ps.
Get f**ked!

 

[AudioJester]

This device almost creates a type of "Stockholm syndrome" in its owners. On a local forum, no question of the validity of its function is tolerated, and you are chased out of the thread if you dare to do so. Only subjective praise is allowed, and the designer/company is venerated!

 

[Wes]

if there is X amount of noise on the gnd. plane, then what is the amount of jitter generated at the clock?

 

[Blumlein 88]

if there is X amount of noise on the gnd. plane, then what is the amount of jitter generated at the clock?

$640 worth apparently.