the up-mixer is a con. it is merely a matrix as some few would know? it doesn't add anything to immerse elsewhere in the room it just extracts a stereo sound that has been matrix filtered to reduce cross-talk and uses one of... well anyone knows how PLIIx sounded with 4.2.4 matrix source and if anyone took the time to actually listen to the surround channels, with LCRsw switched off muted disconnected I don't care which, then listened to how side surround and back surround sounded with a 4.2.4 say a popular movie 'the empire strikes back' laserdisc. PLIIx produces a fake stereo surround that wasn't the original idea but still produces fake stereo surround for side/rear and phantoms most of the bass out of the side surround that is routed to back surround as circuity steering is looking for freq and phase. If you listen careful to how it works and then compare this, rubbish dolby up-mixer or rubbish dtsx neural or even more rubbish auro3d up-mixer that sounds by far the worst scam/con by far with lousy cross-talk and annoying echo chamber delay effect, when pausing a movie/music you'd hear a odd annoying delay, wow how cheap can it possible get?
up-mixer i would say uses one of the PLIIx surround channels (not saying it is PLIIx just saying it sounds similar). as how do you expect it produces stereo overhead channel that is duplicated on height 1 2 and 3 what a scam/con. yes it duplicates the same signal that has no real change in sound steering. now take a native atmos mix that isn't one of these rubbish upmixed versions for old outdated movies, just so studios can, cash milk cow the death out of movies like, 'total recall' dolby fake atmos 'the thing' dts fake x.
so my guess one of the two surround channels of PLIIx is being used and logic circuit that switches the decoder to duplicate the signal when used with a laserdisc 4.2.4 or a 5.1 movie played and just decoders the front left and right ch, yes its decoder is attached to the front left and right, blimey hasn't anyone been listening for what 8 years since it became available to consumer market?
also added an up-mixer of dts neural x on top of atmos native mix only adds frequency masking and you won't hear any of those discrete sounds at all! if the atmos native only used sound/fx for the overheads and dts or auro up-mixer is switched on, forget about it because you'd only be hearing listening to the front left and right signals duplicated on heights 1 2 and 3.
what the up-mixer should have really done was decode the front left right separately - the side surround - separately and back surround separately, by extracting a centre phantom and placing it above on the ceiling so to fake the up-mixer with sounds panning from the back surround and then upward overhead. get the idea? anyone? anyone? that's what they should have done and a lot more besides that?
when its native the pairs of overhead surrounds depending on the mixes often have stereo sound other times a mono sound and other times lousy sound editing or lousy listening monitoring mixing it as i hear so many sound flaws when listening only to the overhead surrounds. not very polished sounding, on most that is.
now this up-mixer should have also incorporated manual gain level balance adjustment so if you want a blend of fronts or side surrounds or back mixed up onto the overhead surrounds for those that really don't listen and think it brings a lot to the table? then fine audio frequency mask the discrete sounds. but a proper balance mixer should have been fitted into all this from the start, with gain level ranging -60dB to +10dB so very small tiny amounts can be added.
all these company names auro3d that started it followed by dolby labs I guess they feared losing out then dts labs as they really feared losing out on this, overhead surround. wow, overhead surorund has been used in certain cinemas since late 1960's with 70mm cinerama at the once local last cinerama in the uk, bournenouth screen 1, that is now home to the pigeons. it used x6 overhead surrounds flush mounted in the ceiling and yes i heard the star destroyer when 'star wars' went national in the uk 1978, opened in london december 1977. screen 1 used the existing overhead to good use. the downstairs screen 2 used side/back and overhead surround all off the same 4.2.4 matrix, matrix mono surround with dolby stereo cp50.
also note JBL 8330 mkI surrounds fitted lousily around the circular ceiling and really was a waste of stereo surround for 5.1. look closely and you'd see the original overhead surround flush, x6 speakers.
when i worked for uci cinemas, tower park ten plex, 1989 that cinema used experimental overhead surround as surrounds was usually fitted on side/back walls to surround. the overheads at tower park, worked very effectively with dolby stereo cp55 with sra5 the speakers was EV.
larger screens 5 and 6 and this would be screen 6 as i can tell from the projection port windows and down the right side of the picture behind the wall is a narrow corridor that connects to screen 5 which was main booth office as well. x8 EV overhead surrounds mounted to the ceiling. oh they also have the same spacing as today, how about that huh? guess somethings don't change that much then huh?
smaller screens 1 to 4 and 7 to 10 all with same design. the smaller screens used x7 overhead surrounds one mounted near entrance and when walking further in the remaining x6. the smaller screens was okay a bit awkward with screen being a bit high up but the LCR and overhead surrounds performed nicely and i can still remember how it freq sounded to this day.
moving forwards dolby clam they have surround ex? well that's rather funny i had same idea and even shared it. the idea came to mind while i was working for UCI and while in booth, often listening to how the mono matrix surround sounded on the booth monitor and being frustrated with 70mm with split surrounds at Empire Leicester Square Empire 1, that sounded awesome but just felt something odd with centre phantom.
i didn't put my idea into motion until late of, 1997 when i saw a price drop in, millennium dts 2/4/6 decoder and saved up for it and fitted it in around 1998. i also used a yamaha dsr70pro connected to the stereo surrounds to try if my idea works or not? it did work more than i expected and more. i shared the idea with a long distance call 9pm uk time for 30mins to dolby labs new york, and was talking with someone called,eric kristofferson
who basically was very interested in fact far too interested and asked way too many questions and after the phone call ended that was that. not really. i was pissed red faced when i saw my idea published in a home cinema magazine around 1999 about some new 'star wars' "story about a jar jar binks" i was fuming red faced angry. i didn't say steal my idea without giving me credit for the idea and capitalizing n it for profit greed. but sure dolby labs will make up some bullshhit to say they came up with the idea. yeah sure they did.
dolby labs used their dolby cp45 as sa10 as that is all really is with few minor modifications and you can pick these decoders up today cheaper than fish and chips. so dolby used its sa10 for few years then had another project called sonic whole overhead surround 2002 'we were soldiers' where some claims the overhead or matrix encode on the dvd hd-dvd bluray doesn't have the extra signal? yeah, really? if really and was only mixed for one print that was used at not sure of the cinema in usa where a ceiling was covered in speakers for extracting the signal on the extra channel of the sa10 or rather the dolby cp45 lol, or lets say the surrounds are discrete and if using some extra sound signal mixed in with an anti-phase out-of-phase the decoder will see the strength in the signal and steer it to the mono matrix surround output on the sa10, i mean the cp45 or anyone else could have used a cheap cp55 back then that would do the same exact thing. lol
so consumer surround ex came out in 2000 but the manufacturers with dolby labs when cheap and only gave you consumers a watered down ex or three channels only when the pro version uses four channels, because its a matrix pro-logic for crying out loud! so maybe that extra signal is intact on 'we were soldiers' or maybe it isn't? because who can tell? because you need a proper matrix decoder connected to the AVR stereo surrounds output. i can see strong signal steering on my dolby cp45 i use in main room rack and have few cheap fish and chips sa10 x4 of them.
leap forward dts labs came out with discrete dts es 6.1 and it and ex sort of frizzled away.... then came PLIIx followed by PLIIz (i have a PLIIz cheap fish and chips flagship onkyo TX NR807 not used it really) i used the other AVR onkyo TX SR-875.
i was going to do ABCDE testing few years ago but my Cats come first as they demanded petting and more food.
so there it is. these up-mixers are just matrix decoder with a new fancy bs name called up-mixer because I guess it puts sound on the up on the ceiling. since last bs sound mixers and studios last rubbish 'the thing' dts fake x, i have switched the denon AVC-X8500H back to 5.1 as i couldn't care less about atmos, dtsx really didn't care for 'bad boys 3' 'apollo 13' 'the thing and certainly not auro3d with only two titles that i loath 'blade runner 2' and 'red tails'. if movie studios skipped on other country languages for uk and placed dts auro atmos all on same disc instead of this, bulllshhhit buying this disc format dtshdma this disc format auro this disc format atmos. 35mm amazing when fitting dolby sr and digital and dts and sdds 8ch all on same film print. am i making you rest consumers angry now?
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