Upgrading to Rose RS151 Streaming

[Richx200]

Hello,

I have been looking to upgrade my streaming device (Zidoo Z30 Pro) for some time and ran across the Rose RS151 which looks good.
The only questions I would have is it too good?
When I upgrade to a new piece of equipment I'm always concerned about how it fits into the rest on my Video/Audio chain.
I mean what's the point of upgrading if the rest of my system cannot support or degrades the upgrade?
I wouldn't want to spend $5600.00 for the Rose and then 30-40K to enjoy it.

The line-up Remove the Zidoo Z30 Pro Streamer and replace it with the Rose RS151:

Rose RS151 > Topping D70 Saber Pro > Anthem MRX 1140 > [ (2) Focal Aria 936, (1) CC900, (4) 300W6, (4) Klipsch CDT-52000-CII and (4) SVS SB4000 ] > Samsung QN85QN90AAFXZA85"

So any help would be appreciated with things like noise reduction, bandwidth, clarity, presence, you know all that stuff?

Other concerns:
Does the Rose pass though the video's audio to the Anthem via HDMI to process all the Dolby/DTS ?
The Rose Seems to have its own OS software (Rose OS) since all other streaming devices that I've seen have Ahdriod how do the two compare?
Can I use .APK Files with the Rose OS or will I have to abandon my Android Open Streaming sources; I don't use any streaming services ?
Will I be able to use the Is2 output; will it work in the Anthem's HDMI?
Would I be better off upgrading to a different streamer?

As Always thank you for your time.

 

[kemmler3D]

The only questions I would have is it too good?

Hey, nothing is too good for your system! The real question is whether it is too expensive. I would say yes. If you are using the Topping as a DAC then there is no reason to upgrade the streamer except for functional features like inputs / outputs. The streamer will not play a role in sound quality at all, because it's just handing off the bits to the Topping anyway.

Your questions under other concerns: probably best to ask Rose about it.

Or, just keep looking for a cheaper streamer that does what you want.

If you are using the digital outputs on the streamer, you really don't need to worry about anything beyond whether it supports the bitrate / sampling rate you want on that output.

Bits are bits no matter how many times people try to deny it. Sound quality does not enter the equation until the DAC. It can't. There is no "sound quality" until the bits are turned into an analog waveform. Digital signals don't have "sound quality" any more than an Excel spreadsheet does.

 

[VMAT4]

What looks so good about the Rose RS151 after you notice the $5000+ price tag? Maybe a dedicated HTPC would be less expensive?

 

[Richx200]

Hey, nothing is too good for your system! The real question is whether it is too expensive. I would say yes. If you are using the Topping as a DAC then there is no reason to upgrade the streamer except for functional features like inputs / outputs. The streamer will not play a role in sound quality at all, because it's just handing off the bits to the Topping anyway.

Your questions under other concerns: probably best to ask Rose about it.

Or, just keep looking for a cheaper streamer that does what you want.

If you are using the digital outputs on the streamer, you really don't need to worry about anything beyond whether it supports the bitrate / sampling rate you want on that output.

Bits are bits no matter how many times people try to deny it. Sound quality does not enter the equation until the DAC. It can't. There is no "sound quality" until the bits are turned into an analog waveform. Digital signals don't have "sound quality" any more than an Excel spreadsheet does.

Thank you for your response. The Rose RS151has all kinds of specs to make it seem there would be a great impact on the quality of sound. I do get the a bit Is A bit 1s and 0 and you can't improve on a digital steam but since Rose is just a streamer how does it improve the performance?

Presently I use the Ztdoo Z30 for audio storage (15TB, but I use SSD 4TB; the mechanical drives are too noisy) it can stream MP3 to DSD512 > USB > Topping > analog to the Anthem. For the Video I use the Nvidia Stream TV Pro it processes the video HR10 (no Dolby Vision yet) and sends audio vis HDMI to the Anthem for Dolby/DTS.

From what you are saying there wouldn't be any improvement at all since all the processing is digital and the Topping/Anthem is where the real action is.

Bottom line Zidoo is just fine sending out it's 1s and 0s to the system. Rose wouldn't improve anything.

 

[kemmler3D]

but since Rose is just a streamer how does it improve the performance?

In reality, it can't, except in extreme situations where you'd be replacing a very bad source with incredibly bad jitter that got to the point of audibility. This is RARE and very unlikely to be your situation.

It can have a nice UX and make itself easy to use, but as far as the audio signal, bits are bits.

From what you are saying there wouldn't be any improvement at all since all the processing is digital and the Topping/Anthem is where the real action is.

Bottom line Zidoo is just fine sending out it's 1s and 0s to the system. Rose wouldn't improve anything.

Sound-quality wise, no, it would not improve anything.

There is a whole cottage industry around convincing people their products make the bits better somehow, (not just this stuff, but wacky things like ethernet cables) but that's just not possible in the ways they'd have you believe.

If you have $5K to upgrade the system I'd say look into acoustic treatments if you don't already have them. That will go pretty far in improving the sound in any given room.

 

[Redacted]

Depending what you think you can hear, and over and above the 'numbers', for only £2K, Cambridge Audio Evo150SE is still a nice slick unit and runs Hypex amps. Maybe spending a lot more is the main thing though?

 

[Richx200]

Depending what you think you can hear, and over and above the 'numbers', for only £2K, Cambridge Audio Evo150SE is still a nice slick unit and runs Hypex amps. Maybe spending a lot more is the main thing though?

No... My main concern was it fitting into my current audio chain ?
I think kemmler3D answered the question nicely...............bits are bits

 

[Redacted]

No... My main concern was it fitting into my current audio chain ?
I think kemmler3D answered the question nicely...............bits are bits

OK, so you don't need a new all-in-one, just-add-speakers device!

There are huge range of streaming devices out there, with more every year, and better/cheaper. If it has a DAC in it too, you are not usually forced to have to use it. Any unit with digital out to a DAC & amp of your choice is sonically fine (yes bits are obviously bits).

IMHO, the choice of a pure streamer is heavily dependent on the user interface (usually on a phone or tablet app), what streaming apps it supports (i.e. the range of platforms), hardware flexibility (such as: can you attach an SSD?) and how well supported all those apps are into the future. Like with smart TVs. A streamer that can run standard Android apps is probably not going to become obsolete as quickly as one that runs a proprietary OS and proprietary app versions will (usually a ported version of Linux), but I digress, and it doesn't matter.

 

[Richx200]

In reality, it can't, except in extreme situations where you'd be replacing a very bad source with incredibly bad jitter that got to the point of audibility. This is RARE and very unlikely to be your situation.

It can have a nice UX and make itself easy to use, but as far as the audio signal, bits are bits.


Sound-quality wise, no, it would not improve anything.

There is a whole cottage industry around convincing people their products make the bits better somehow, (not just this stuff, but wacky things like ethernet cables) but that's just not possible in the ways they'd have you believe.

If you have $5K to upgrade the system I'd say look into acoustic treatments if you don't already have them. That will go pretty far in improving the sound in any given room.

I went through a terrible time getting rid of a 70hz null. Took me 3 more SVS SB4000, Mini DSP 2x4, 2 months a complete read of REW MSO room EQ and other stuff than 100s of tests until I corrected the null. The reset of the room after 250hz was corrected by ARC Genesis. If you want more details let me know.

 

[kemmler3D]

I went through a terrible time getting rid of a 70hz null. Took me 3 more SVS SB4000, Mini DSP 2x4, 2 months a complete read of REW MSO room EQ and other stuff than 100s of tests until I corrected the null. The reset of the room after 250hz was corrected by ARC Genesis. If you what more details let me know.

That sounds pretty good already, I was thinking more in terms of absorptive panels, diffusers, etc. it sounds like the frequency response in room is pretty good after all that, but decay time and reflections could also be improved with acoustic materials where EQ can't.

Or, maybe Dirac ART or Trinnov waveforming could be a step up. Since you have 4 subs that's on the table. I've heard good things about those.

 

[Richx200]

OK, so you don't need a new all-in-one, just-add-speakers device!

There are huge range of streaming devices out there, with more every year, and better/cheaper. If it has a DAC in it too, you are not usually forced to have to use it. Any unit with digital out to a DAC & amp of your choice is sonically fine (yes bits are obviously bits).

IMHO, the choice of a pure streamer is heavily dependent on the user interface (usually on a phone or tablet app), what streaming apps it supports (i.e. the range of platforms), hardware flexibility (such as: can you attach an SSD?) and how well supported all those apps are into the future. Like with smart TVs. A streamer that can run standard Android apps is probably not going to become obsolete as quickly as one that runs a proprietary OS and proprietary app versions will (usually a ported version of Linux), but I digress, and it doesn't matter.

Yes you do make a lot of fine points. Features, presentation, storage, apps and interface are all what you buy a streamer for. My Zidoo Z30 pro handles the list and the only problem I might have is 1. Too many apps. I don't use streaming services and I certainly don't want Google messing with the OSD. 2. I would like to get a good music app for wide range of formats I use in my audio collection like .MVR (I think) for Dolby Atmos.

 

[Redacted]

The Zidoo Z30 pro sounds like it does a lot with video; I'm not sure what it does compared with other streamers. I just plug my smart TV into my streamer over HDMI and it all runs using the TV remote; no apps involved. I'm only bothered with stereo from TV to my main system, so maybe I'm not following your use-case, so can't add much here.

But as for "Too many apps"... Well, you do need the full choice of streaming service apps to cover most users, I suppose, but if you don't stream from the usual platforms, you can hide the apps you don't want. The one app I use to control my streamer is fine - it lets me hide all the sources I don't need (eg Tidal or whatever) to avoid clutter in the pages I see on the phone. And I can't say I've come across "google messing with" OSDs on any streamer box I've seen. Certainly on my streamer, I only see simple things like the source in use, or for music, the cover art and all tag data from the files being played (it does the same if I play a CD on the companion CD player which is a very nice trick)

What 'good music app' are you hoping for? I only use FLAC or MP3 files (if no FLAC handy) for music, off my NAS or off a 256GB micro SD in my phone, and the phone app that runs my streamer is fine for cueing files from the NAS, and I use Foobar2000 on my PC or on my phone for local and network files (using headphones on the phone or PC, not my main stereo. I know nothing about .MVR/Dobly music etc. so I expect your needs are bit more complex than mine!

 

[Richx200]

That sounds pretty good already, I was thinking more in terms of absorptive panels, diffusers, etc. it sounds like the frequency response in room is pretty good after all that, but decay time and reflections could also be improved with acoustic materials where EQ can't.

Or, maybe Dirac ART or Trinnov waveforming could be a step up. Since you have 4 subs that's on the table. I've heard good things about those.

Funny you brought this up. I was messing around with a DWS trying ti get some old vinyl to sound better when I ran across a very interesting VST plugin for the DWS.

OrilRiver by Denis Tihanov - Win 64-Bit a Free Reverb Plugin

https://www.kvraudio.com/product/orilriver-by-denis-tihano

Features OrilRiver:

• 12 variations of the early reflections.
• 5 variations of the reverb tail.
• 3-band equalizer for the wet signal, which helps to create different shades of the virtual space.
• Internal signal processing: 64-bit floating point.
• Sample Rate: from 44100 to 192000 Hz.
• Two graphical interfaces.

Some of the many presets.
1) OrilRiver OR Stone Voices Ambient 4.3
2) Sanford reverb
3) Epicverb and Voxengo OldSkoolverb
4) Tonebooster reverb v3 (not free)
5) TAL reverb II
6) Freeverb3
7) Cockos Reaverbate
8) Ambience.

 

[Talisman]

In reality, it can't, except in extreme situations where you'd be replacing a very bad source with incredibly bad jitter that got to the point of audibility. This is RARE and very unlikely to be your situation.

It can have a nice UX and make itself easy to use, but as far as the audio signal, bits are bits.


Sound-quality wise, no, it would not improve anything.

There is a whole cottage industry around convincing people their products make the bits better somehow, (not just this stuff, but wacky things like ethernet cables) but that's just not possible in the ways they'd have you believe.

If you have $5K to upgrade the system I'd say look into acoustic treatments if you don't already have them. That will go pretty far in improving the sound in any given room.

If I use an audiophile Ethernet cable, can I improve my digital banking transactions and increase my bank balance?
It seems like no matter what cable I use, the bank transfers always match the amounts entered

 

[BlackTalon]

Funny, my Nordost Odin ethernet cable had a profound effect on my bank balance. (j/k)

 

[Redacted]

If I use an audiophile Ethernet cable, can I improve my digital banking transactions and increase my bank balance?
It seems like no matter what cable I use, the bank transfers always match the amounts entered

the problem with jitter is that it can increase OR decrease your bank account depending on when you click your mouse.
And my streamer is on WiFi, which is bit perfect, except when I'm chatting with space aliens.

 

[Richx200]

The Zidoo Z30 pro sounds like it does a lot with video; I'm not sure what it does compared with other streamers. I just plug my smart TV into my streamer over HDMI and it all runs using the TV remote; no apps involved. I'm only bothered with stereo from TV to my main system, so maybe I'm not following your use-case, so can't add much here.

But as for "Too many apps"... Well, you do need the full choice of streaming service apps to cover most users, I suppose, but if you don't stream from the usual platforms, you can hide the apps you don't want. The one app I use to control my streamer is fine - it lets me hide all the sources I don't need (eg Tidal or whatever) to avoid clutter in the pages I see on the phone. And I can't say I've come across "google messing with" OSDs on any streamer box I've seen. Certainly on my streamer, I only see simple things like the source in use, or for music, the cover art and all tag data from the files being played (it does the same if I play a CD on the companion CD player which is a very nice trick)

What 'good music app' are you hoping for? I only use FLAC or MP3 files (if no FLAC handy) for music, off my NAS or off a 256GB micro SD in my phone, and the phone app that runs my streamer is fine for cueing files from the NAS, and I use Foobar2000 on my PC or on my phone for local and network files (using headphones on the phone or PC, not my main stereo. I know nothing about .MVR/Dobly music etc. so I expect your needs are bit more complex than mine!

I don't use the Zidoo for video only for streaming audio. For video, I use an Nvidia Shield TV Pro since it supports more audio formats like Atmos.

As far as apps are concerned I don't use any with the Zidoo OS (Android plus Music Player 8) I turn it on select music the menu comes up I pick and that's it and the same for the Nvidia. My music collection runs from MP3 to DSD512 and everything in between. Right now Zidoo handles all the formats. But I'm starting to acquire some spatial audio 5.1 surround and Dolby Atmos. The preventions sound great and I do believe at will be the next wave of rerecordings

For remotes at one time I was controlling my system with eight remotes. Now just one The Sofabaton X2.

I wouldn't say my needs are more complex...just more eclectic.

 

[kemmler3D]

Funny you brought this up. I was messing around with a DWS trying ti get some old vinyl to sound better when I ran across a very interesting VST plugin for the DWS.

OrilRiver by Denis Tihanov - Win 64-Bit a Free Reverb Plugin

https://www.kvraudio.com/product/orilriver-by-denis-tihano

Features OrilRiver:

• 12 variations of the early reflections.
• 5 variations of the reverb tail.
• 3-band equalizer for the wet signal, which helps to create different shades of the virtual space.
• Internal signal processing: 64-bit floating point.
• Sample Rate: from 44100 to 192000 Hz.
• Two graphical interfaces.

Some of the many presets.
1) OrilRiver OR Stone Voices Ambient 4.3
2) Sanford reverb
3) Epicverb and Voxengo OldSkoolverb
4) Tonebooster reverb v3 (not free)
5) TAL reverb II
6) Freeverb3
7) Cockos Reaverbate
8) Ambience.

I think I've used OrilRiver at some point... it's really an effect for studios rather than playback, but have fun. My favorite reverb plugin by far is still Ambience if you can find it. It just sounds really good and convincing at short decay times. A neat feature is you can sort of randomize the reflections, so if you find a lucky combination of settings it might sound really convincing in your room.

That said, I think if you want vinyl to sound better, the "correct" thing to do is get a better phono preamp. People around here seem to really love the Waxwing, I guess it automatically eliminates pops / clicks in realtime.

 

[Ruediger]

I don't use the Zidoo for video only for streaming audio. For video, I use an Nvidia Shield TV Pro since it supports more audio formats like Atmos.

An amlogic box for audio, interesting. One of those is a successor to my Shield when they started ads and introduced android-problems with multichannel aac/pcm. I put CoreElec on them and gain everything the Shield can't do. License formats go out by passthrough though.

 

[Richx200]

I think I've used OrilRiver at some point... it's really an effect for studios rather than playback, but have fun. My favorite reverb plugin by far is still Ambience if you can find it. It just sounds really good and convincing at short decay times. A neat feature is you can sort of randomize the reflections, so if you find a lucky combination of settings it might sound really convincing in your room.

That said, I think if you want vinyl to sound better, the "correct" thing to do is get a better phono preamp. People around here seem to really love the Waxwing, I guess it automatically eliminates pops / clicks in realtime.

I was working on some old vinyl recorded on cassettes (Nakamichi 680 ZX) back in the 80s. I ran the cassettes' through 680zx > Korg DS-DAC-10R > PC cleaned up the pops and clicks, but they still sounded aged, so I was trying to brighten them up. I did succeed to make them sound better. However, I will check out Waxwing and Ambience
I play vinyl today on a Rega PL3 (Tang Spinner) Exact Cart. Fono MC Pre.