Yes but that can be greatly ameliorated with the addition of subwoofer(s) and a HPF (internal or external).
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Upgrading to Avantgarde Colibri C2
- Thread starter Puddingbuks
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+1. But OTOH and speaking somewhat blasphemous for ASR, there still seems to exist some as yet undetermined factors in speaker types/design/amp power/interface that contributes/restricts a speakers ability to sound "dynamic" beyond our basic numbers.
It very well may be old bias and preconceptions, IDK.
somebodyelse
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I'm sure it will for the early drop below 100Hz, and maybe even up to woofer/mid crossover (~350Hz?) It's not going to do anything for the broader limit around 99dB/1m though. It's a similar story for other speakers we respect and recommend within their limitations like the KH-80s or 8030s - subs help a lot, but beyond a certain output requirement you're going to need something bigger. KEF have other speakers to meet those needs, just as Neumann, Genelec and the rest do.
"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment".It very well may be old bias and preconceptions, IDK.
I do not know what your target is but, considering the spectral distribution of power in music, eliminating the <100Hz demand from the KEFs woofers should definitely reduce overall limiting below the 350 Hz – 390 Hz. It made for a significant "amelioration" in my domestic space and my progam content and needs. OTOH, their normal use now is as Ls/Rs where the demands are less.
Why, what are you scared of Kal? JK
Note the quotes.Why, what are you scared of Kal? JK
I listened to the Avantgarde Zero iTron earlier this year during the "Norddeutsche Hifi Tage" in Hamburg, Germany, and liked their dynamic sound, however also noticed some coloration.
Found a very positive review of the predecessor Zero 1 by Anselm Goertz and was positively surprised about the level of engineering:
www.fidelity-online.de
Imagine my disappointment when I learned that the NEWER (current) model Zero iTron actually is a huge step back: no digital input, no digital x-over, no driver linearization, much worse measurements...
For me, this shows that the company Avantgarde is just another high-end snake oil company pushing overpriced products into the high end market. I do not take them seriously and would not buy their products.
Found a very positive review of the predecessor Zero 1 by Anselm Goertz and was positively surprised about the level of engineering:
Avantgarde Acoustic Zero 1 Messungen - FIDELITY online
Messungen Avantgarde Acoustic Zero 1 Mit der Zero 1 betritt man bei Avantgarde Acoustic in vielerlei Hinsicht neue Wege. Es handelt sich um ein vollaktives System mit drei integrierten Endstufen, eine davon sogar als Class-D-Schaltung. Alle Filterfunktionen werden als Digitalfilter mit...
www.fidelity-online.de
Imagine my disappointment when I learned that the NEWER (current) model Zero iTron actually is a huge step back: no digital input, no digital x-over, no driver linearization, much worse measurements...
For me, this shows that the company Avantgarde is just another high-end snake oil company pushing overpriced products into the high end market. I do not take them seriously and would not buy their products.
The market for ole style horns like that has 2 different types of customers.
One will accept the digital input, DSP crossovers, etc.
The others are the pure analog, SET tube amps, 1950s sound style enthusiasts that will never swallow such blasphemy.
YMMV
You are correct - my mileage does vary
I have an engineering education and
believe in science. The worst thing I can accept is a turntable, which I bought last year and enjoy from time to time as it slows me down and lets me listen more consciously. But even this "old school" device is a "technical" Technics SL1210 direct drive...
Audio Science Pal
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They have arrived!
View attachment 543066
Christmas came early this year.
The avantgarde speakers have an amazing build quality, wow, german engineering. With the light in the room their color changes, I love their looks. My kids asked if this was a new sort of toilet.
After using roomperfect on the lyngdorf 1120 and integrating my sub I have arrrived at hifi heaven. For me, a clear upgrade to the Kef LS60. More “live”, punchy sound and voices that are better defined in the soundstage. Voices sound more lifelike and “real”. The music comes in more layers, you can here the different parts better separated from each other.
Another good thing: Tidal playback on the Lyngdorf is faster and more responsive than on the Kefs.
Amazed again about how good roomperfect is. I use dirac and audessey also, but roomperfect just sounds right to me. Bass is tight and sounds just right. Love it.
View attachment 543070
View attachment 543068
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View attachment 543071
I almost destroyed my SVS sub… Scrolling through the Lyngdorf options, I noted a “full scale” option. After selecting this, my SVS almost seemed to explode, it was suddenly outputting max power. This option will send a maximum signal to the output. Should be accompanied by a a warning I guess.
View attachment 543073
The SVS with the Lyngdorf on top:
View attachment 543075
Your speakers look good. I imagine they sound really nice!
I hear that all the time but ain't buyin it, minimally you have to jump up to change sides every 15-17 minutes.
And then mess around for at least 5 or more minutes to clean that LP side, clean the needle, position and lower the arm, then run back to the chair before the music starts. LOL
I can listen uninterrupted for 80 minutes using a single CD, or can build a uninterrupted playlist of 1-4000 albums from my personal library.
I'd only have to get up for a bathroom call and still the music plays on.
Now that's being able to have a serious, involved listening session.
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This is true, and it can be a real problem when listening while being tired. I woke up a couple times on my sofa with the needle spinning in the run out groove. Not good! Now I listen to Tidal when there is a chance that I fall asleep.
Honestly, this is more like 10-20 seconds.
TrueI can listen uninterrupted for 80 minutes using a single CD, or can build a uninterrupted playlist of 1-4000 albums from my personal library.
I'd only have to get up for a bathroom call and still the music plays on.
Now that's being able to have a serious, involved listening session.
The last table I had without a factory end-of-side auto-lift was my 1960s AR-XB, but still I added a little aftermarket device that did that automatically. These new ones work great I hear.
Yeah, going back to vinyl is a pain. That way, we can indulge our masochistic side a little ;-)
These new ones work great I hear.
I like this device from Audio Technica even better.
Audio Technica AT6006R Tonarmlift | THAKKER
However, as I have installed a silicon oil damper to my Technics tone arm, there is no space left for a tone arm lift, so I have to live with my fully manual setup.
But, we are moving off topic now...
They have arrived!
Christmas came early this year.
The avantgarde speakers have an amazing build quality, wow, german engineering. With the light in the room their color changes, I love their looks. My kids asked if this was a new sort of toilet.
After using roomperfect on the lyngdorf 1120 and integrating my sub I have arrrived at hifi heaven. For me, a clear upgrade to the Kef LS60. More “live”, punchy sound and voices that are better defined in the soundstage. Voices sound more lifelike and “real”. The music comes in more layers, you can here the different parts better separated from each other.
Another good thing: Tidal playback on the Lyngdorf is faster and more responsive than on the Kefs.
Amazed again about how good roomperfect is. I use dirac and audessey also, but roomperfect just sounds right to me. Bass is tight and sounds just right. Love it.
View attachment 543068
Would love to hear more about how you're getting along with these C2s. I had a similar experience at CAF with the larger Avantgardes which put these on my radar for a small room I'm building. Are you still loving them?
Funnily enough, I have a Lyngdorf 3400 that I was thinking about pairing them with, but part of me wants to take the other fork in the road that @Kal Rubinson mentioned and pair them with a low powered tube amp.
Tell us more - thanks!
OP
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- Thread Starter
- #58
@matro5 With the hot weather and a lot of other hobbys like mountainbiking, I haven't spend as much time as usual listening to music.
What I love about the Colibris is how lifelike and dynamic they sound—it’s just way more in-your-face than with the KEFs. Not only a bit punchier and better defined, but also with more depth and spatial layering; you can pinpoint individual instruments much better than with the KEFs.
They can also play significantly louder without distorting, delivering a delightful kick bass (80–100 Hz). For techno and other electronic music, these speakers are absolute perfection. With help from the SVS of course.
Finally, they have a subtle delicacy to them as well: you pick up so much detail, and familiar records reveal whole new nuances in the vocals—there's just so much more to hear.
But I do have a problem: I’m currently using a different setup where my chair isn't centered in the room and the space itself isn't fully symmetrical... as a result, the center image pulls slightly to the left.
I’ve partially fixed this by adjusting the balance to the right on the Lyngdorf, but it’s still not entirely where I want it to be. Due to the listening position and chair placement, it probably never will be perfect.
I might move the Colibris to my main listening room soon (see signature link), which is symmetrical and acoustically treated with over 2,000 liters of absorption material, to see what they do in a "close to perfection" room.
What I love about the Colibris is how lifelike and dynamic they sound—it’s just way more in-your-face than with the KEFs. Not only a bit punchier and better defined, but also with more depth and spatial layering; you can pinpoint individual instruments much better than with the KEFs.
They can also play significantly louder without distorting, delivering a delightful kick bass (80–100 Hz). For techno and other electronic music, these speakers are absolute perfection. With help from the SVS of course.
Finally, they have a subtle delicacy to them as well: you pick up so much detail, and familiar records reveal whole new nuances in the vocals—there's just so much more to hear.
But I do have a problem: I’m currently using a different setup where my chair isn't centered in the room and the space itself isn't fully symmetrical... as a result, the center image pulls slightly to the left.
I’ve partially fixed this by adjusting the balance to the right on the Lyngdorf, but it’s still not entirely where I want it to be. Due to the listening position and chair placement, it probably never will be perfect.
I might move the Colibris to my main listening room soon (see signature link), which is symmetrical and acoustically treated with over 2,000 liters of absorption material, to see what they do in a "close to perfection" room.
Keith_W
Master Contributor
I haven't heard your particular speakers, but I have heard many horns. I agree, they have a certain punch to them that conventional speakers like the KEF's don't have. Up to now, I still don't know where I might find that in measurements. I have a strong suspicion it's the way the energy is directed - if you measure SPL at different distances, you will find that the horn concentrates energy like a jet, rather than distributing it evenly around the room like a conventional speaker. In other words, the SPL does not fall off according to the inverse square law, it behaves more like a line array within that frequency band. This isn't captured in conventional spinorama measurements which only measure speakers at a fixed distance.
Yes, I'm wondering that myself already a long time, especially when people argue, that "this is not shown in the measurements" or vice versa, when you complain of the lack of livelike/dynamics.
I - for now - came to the same conclusion like you ("In other words, the SPL does not fall off according to the inverse square law, it behaves more like a line array within that frequency band"). As I was also looking for horns but found the JBL with CBT technology, I found the same livelike/dynamics but without horn. What these principles have in common, is that, what you said.
And I'm also wondering, If some people are more sensitive to that, than others.
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