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Upgrading from ODAC+Gustard H10 to A90/D90 -- is it worth it?

strea

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Hello all and thank you for your time.

I am currently using an old school JDS Labs Standalone ODAC and a Gustard H10 (single ended output) to power my Audeze LCD-3. I was unsatisfied with this combo until I really dug deep into JRiver's Parametric EQ's and found a sound signature I have been enjoying.

With this said, I know Amir gave a recommendation for the H10, but I have not found anything on the ODAC. I suppose my question is pretty simple. Am I going to hear any type of audible difference moving from the ODAC/H10 to the A90/D90 combo. I've read the reviews and measurements for each and know the that Toppings are the superior equipment, but will that transfer to the ears? Or is what I have, good enough? My goal is to get to the "end game" as quick as possible and I never plan to spend more than $1500 on "my end-game" so A90/D90 would be it if so.

From my perspective, I am already happy with what I have, but I question if my naivety could be at play. Just like how I was happy with my lesser sports car until I bought a superior one (in this case, the gas pedal and handling provides a NOTICEABLE difference compared to my previous car), which is basically the same question I am asking here. Will there be any type of noticeable difference? And if so, what will it be?

Thank you very much for your time.

Edit: I suppose it could be important to list my setup / taste in music as well. Lossless music on JRiver (WASAPI) -> ODAC RCA -> Gustard H10 -> Audeze LCD 3 (pre-fazor). And my library is composed primarily of electronic music and digitally produced rap, lots of sub-bass etc. I saw that the Gustard H10 has dropoff past 20hz in Amir's review. I know 20 is definitely on the low low end, but if it could be affecting the 30hz area, I'd definitely want to upgrade as I have tons of songs that hit 25-35hz often.
 
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bigjacko

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Odac should be a good enough dac, Idon't know the SINAD but I guess it might be around -100dB. Your dac and amp are already transparent enough that I don't think you need to upgrade. If you really want to upgrade topping L30 at $140 is a lot cheaper but same performance as A90.
 

AnalogSteph

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I suppose my question is pretty simple. Am I going to hear any type of audible difference moving from the ODAC/H10 to the A90/D90 combo.
I wouldn't be holding my breath.

A dropoff of 0.8 dB at 20 Hz is insignificant, and the H10 has tons of power at sufficiently low distortion.
I would make sure that digital levels are kept away from 0 dBFS as ESS DACs (as used in the ODAC) are known to not have any headroom for intersample-overs >0 dBFS - but that's pretty trivial once e.g. ReplayGain is engaged, and you only need around 2 dB of extra headroom anyway.

That said, do you notice any unwanted noises at high gain with the volume turned up, especially when the PC is stressed a bit? The H10 is apparently "inspired" by the Violectric V200 but I have no idea whether a ground lift jumper is also included. No biggie either way, you could purchase some of these $6.99 Monoprice RCA>XLR cables for the ODAC and the issue should be about 95% sorted. Good DACs or audio interfaces with native balanced outputs are far less than $1500, too.

BTW, some people say that all the Audeze cans past LCD-2 sound "off". The measurements I've seen certainly didn't seem to indicate that they got any closer to an ideal response.
 
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strea

strea

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I wouldn't be holding my breath.

A dropoff of 0.8 dB at 20 Hz is insignificant, and the H10 has tons of power at sufficiently low distortion.
I would make sure that digital levels are kept away from 0 dBFS as ESS DACs (as used in the ODAC) are known to not have any headroom for intersample-overs >0 dBFS - but that's pretty trivial once e.g. ReplayGain is engaged, and you only need around 2 dB of extra headroom anyway.

That said, do you notice any unwanted noises at high gain with the volume turned up, especially when the PC is stressed a bit? The H10 is apparently "inspired" by the Violectric V200 but I have no idea whether a ground lift jumper is also included. No biggie either way, you could purchase some of these $6.99 Monoprice RCA>XLR cables for the ODAC and the issue should be about 95% sorted. Good DACs or audio interfaces with native balanced outputs are far less than $1500, too.

BTW, some people say that all the Audeze cans past LCD-2 sound "off". The measurements I've seen certainly didn't seem to indicate that they got any closer to an ideal response.

Thanks bigjacko and Steph.

Question Steph, you say make sure the digital levels are kept away from 0 dBFS. I am not sure what this means? Does this mean keep my Windows volume at 90% (like the ODAC manual says to do) rather than the full 100% etc. As far as I can see my ODAC has no settings on it, its just a little black box that plugs in to the PC via USB and has RCA out to the Gustard H10.
 

AnalogSteph

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you say make sure the digital levels are kept away from 0 dBFS. I am not sure what this means? Does this mean keep my Windows volume at 90% (like the ODAC manual says to do) rather than the full 100% etc.
That would be one way of going about it, yes. I might suggest more like 86% (90% is -1.6 dB here, -2.3 dB would seem safer), and I wouldn't take any bets on this potentially driver-level volume control working even with WASAPI (exclusive mode) or ASIO (via e.g. ASIO4All) output.

Once you are using constant playback level processing like ReplayGain, the kind of critical recordings with >0 dBFS peaks tend to be substantially attenuated anyway; they are, in general, heavily brickwalled and correspondingly LOUD. Modern oversampling brickwall limiters tend to be more well-behaved, but they have only been in common use since about 2012 or so. Mid-late '90s and 2000s (and some newer) rock and pop can be pretty nasty.
 

JohnYang1997

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For LCD-3, D90 + A90 would probably be better. But the major short coming of your current setup is noise related performance(apart from the low frequency roll off of course). If you don't hear any noise, you probably won't hear much improvement.
 

jumos

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for what its worth, ive been a fan of JDSlabs for a while, I have their original odac rev A and also OL DAC, both of which they claimed transparent and objective and all that, I had them for years and really enjoyed the sound. But recently got a modius and the difference was huge. Whether that was switching to XLR balanced or just something else I'm not sure. I love the marketing of JDSlabs and their designs, but do wish theyd come out with some higher end gear and power/integrated amps for speakers. You very well might do better with a nicer dac then the ODAC, as good as it is-- disclaimer this is 100% my opinion and YMMV
 

AnalogSteph

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I have a feeling we're talking the kind of yuuuge differences that tend to dissipate into thin air in a properly level-matched A/B. Or turn out to be related to something else altogether, like using the balanced outputs on the Modius. Potential >=0 dBFS issues aside (which is why the ODAC recommendation was for OS volume to be left slightly below maximum), telling any two competent DACs built within at least the last decade apart should be nigh on impossible, assuming you're not doing anything silly like having way too much gain between DAC and transducers.

While the ODAC is quite a way off from SOTA by modern standards, it should still be audibly transparent if the levels are dialled in halfway sensibly (0 dBFS @ 110 dB SPL max or thereabouts).
 
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