Upgrading from Kef LS50's - $4-6k budget

[Astroboydivx]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the market to upgrade my speakers and have about $6k AUD ($4k USD) to spare for a pair of new passives. I don't listen loud (perhaps 80db) and am searching for non-fatiguing speakers that provide an accurate reproduction and 'holographic imaging'.

I have a MiniDSP SHD -> March Audio Purifi P452 -> Kef LS50's + Rel T/5i. My lounge/living room is around 4m x 5m x 2.7m ceilings (12ft x 15ft x 9ft ceilings). I live in Australia.

I'm flexible with bookshelves or towers. In Australia, home demonstrations are basically impossible and in-store demo's are difficult due to variable acoustics and systems.

The contenders seem to be:
Kef R3 or R7
Revel F206 (or maybe F208 if I bargain well)
Focal Aria 926/936 (or maybe 948 if I bargain well)
Dynaudio Evoke 30

I'm leaning towards Kef R7 or Revel F206 but keen to get people's opinions please.

Thanks!

 

[stevenswall]

Stick with a coaxial unit if you value being able to move vertically. Sometimes I do yoga, sit on a couch, a chair, or on the floor and can't stand speakers sounding broken when I change position like that.

Otherwise, Revels seem to measure very well.

If you weren't limited to passives, I'd go with a Genelec coaxial, used if you need to.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the market to upgrade my speakers and have about $6k AUD ($4k USD) to spare for a pair of new passives. I don't listen loud (perhaps 80db) and am searching for non-fatiguing speakers that provide an accurate reproduction and 'holographic imaging'.

I have a MiniDSP SHD -> March Audio Purifi P452 -> Kef LS50's + Rel T/5i. My lounge/living room is around 4m x 5m x 2.7m ceilings (12ft x 15ft x 9ft ceilings). I live in Australia.

I'm flexible with bookshelves or towers. In Australia, home demonstrations are basically impossible and in-store demo's are difficult due to variable acoustics and systems.

The contenders seem to be:
Kef R3 or R7
Revel F206 (or maybe F208 if I bargain well)
Focal Aria 926/936 (or maybe 948 if I bargain well)
Dynaudio Evoke 30

I'm leaning towards Kef R7 or Revel F206 but keen to get people's opinions please.

Thanks!

Lean even more, to the point of acquisition . You can toss a coin to help choose between those 2

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the market to upgrade my speakers and have about $6k AUD ($4k USD) to spare for a pair of new passives. I don't listen loud (perhaps 80db) and am searching for non-fatiguing speakers that provide an accurate reproduction and 'holographic imaging'.

I have a MiniDSP SHD -> March Audio Purifi P452 -> Kef LS50's + Rel T/5i. My lounge/living room is around 4m x 5m x 2.7m ceilings (12ft x 15ft x 9ft ceilings). I live in Australia.

I'm flexible with bookshelves or towers. In Australia, home demonstrations are basically impossible and in-store demo's are difficult due to variable acoustics and systems.

The contenders seem to be:
Kef R3 or R7
Revel F206 (or maybe F208 if I bargain well)
Focal Aria 926/936 (or maybe 948 if I bargain well)
Dynaudio Evoke 30

I'm leaning towards Kef R7 or Revel F206 but keen to get people's opinions please.

Thanks!

Perhaps you should even consider Metas. If you could stretch you budget a little further, I've seen used Kef Reference 1's being sold with stands for $5k USD.

 

[digitalfrost]

If you like the LS50, I'm not sure R3 or R7 would be a major upgrade, you could just as well add stereo subwoofers to the LS50 for probably less money.

The Focals are nice, but compared to the KEF coaxials, they really fill the room with music. It's a matter of taste, but if you like the KEFs, the Focals are same same, but different. The sound is kinda everywhere and thus not as precise maybe as the KEFs, but they're both great. Lots of discussion were had here about their differences.

I have not heard the Revels or the Dynaudios, but for me my #1 contender would be the Revels and if possible I'd like to compare then to the KEF R5/R7 in the same room.

 

[JDragon]

I was able to get my pair of KEF Ref 1s for $4K and shipping. Not sure how the used/demo market is in Australia but might be worth exploring. I also upgraded from LS50s.

 

[Sugarbubble]

I doubt you will get better sound than you have now unless you increase your budget a lot. The combo you have is full range and sounds great with low distortion at lower listening levels. I think you will end up with just different sound. Instead of new mains, maybe add a second sub to tame room modes? Upgrade syndrome is real, there is no cure, but treatments are available.

 

[AurekV]

There are two reasons why the R3 and R7 are superior to the LS50. Obviously they have flatter listening window response but I'm assuming that the miniDSP SHD is taking care of that part.

1st: they have better directivity, it is particularly noticeable on MZKMs normalized off axis response plots. Look at the LS50 here and the R3 here. I believe the LS50 Meta takes care of this difference as well.

2nd: 2-way coaxial KEF designs appear to have some audible distortion problems related to the mid bass cone (IMD) that cause them to score worse in blind listening tests than their directivity and FR would indicate. Some info on this here: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/revel-owners-thread.710918/post-56105466. This is info from Harman through a Harman dealer, but it does seem credible and that they would be unlikely to lie about it, especially as explicitly as it is stated. There is also discussion about this on the Q350 review thread. A 3-way design with a separate bass driver is likely to reduce this problem significantly (by reducing mid cone movement) but as far as I understand a subwoofer can't practically be crossed over high enough to prevent most of this. KEF 3-way designs also have meaningfully lower harmonic distortion than their 2-way designs. The cone area on the 2-ways are quite small (a big hole is punched in the middle for the tweeter in a rather small driver already) and probably have design compromises to make them better waveguides rather than provide the best LF distortion performance.

The speakers OP states they are leaning towards appear to be objectively superior to the others listed and it is more of a matter of preference around directivity properties that would make the difference between them. The Revels have wider dispersion (as evidences by a lower directivity index) compared to the KEFs and don't have the great vertical directivity characteristics of the coaxial design.

I would suggest buying speakers with less LF extension and getting a 2nd subwoofer. It is generally a better value. That REL sub doesn't seem likely to play very low or loud but depending on the content you're playing it may be okay, especially with 2. Using MSO (Multi-Sub Optimizer) with that configuration can give really even bass response.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I was able to get my pair of KEF Ref 1s for $4K and shipping. Not sure how the used/demo market is in Australia but might be worth exploring. I also upgraded from LS50s.

So how do you like them?

 

[JDragon]

So how do you like them?

They are fantastic speakers that take very well to EQ.

 

[3125b]

Amir reviewed the F208: Revel F208 Tower Speaker Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum and the KEF R3: KEF R3 Speaker Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Just like the Focal Aria 948 they are huge and heavy things with loads of power handling capability (both up to 350W) in a classic arrangement with two woofers, one mid and one tweeter. Very different concept from the LS50 you have now. If you have the chance to test any of these, do.

Here is a size comparison of some of the options: https://www.matheretter.de/geoserva...|0]+quader(0|7.5|0 2.78|2|3.02)&axesoff&cp=10

 

[Astroboydivx]

Here is a size comparison of some of the options: https://www.matheretter.de/geoservant/de?draw=text(1|1.15|0.5 "Revel F208"`3`)[90|0|0]+quader(0|-1|0 3.753|3.418|11.825)+text(1|5.25|0.5 "Focal Aria 948"`3`)[90|0|0]+quader(0|3|0 4.2|3.71|11.5)+text(1|-2.2|0.5 "KEF R7 (width w/o feet)"`2.2`)[90|0|0]+quader(0|-3.5|0 3.6|2|11.09)+text(1|-4.65|5 "KEF R3 (w/o stand)"`2.2`)[90|0|0]+quader(0|-6|0 3.12|1.996|4.22)+text(1|-7.6|0.5 "Focal Aria 926"`3`)[90|0|0]+quader(0|-9.5|0 3.71|2.94|10.35)+text(1|8.85|3.5 "KEF LS50"`3`)[90|0|0]+quader(0|7.5|0 2.78|2|3.02)&axesoff&cp=10

Great visualiser, thanks!

 

[Jim Matthews]

There's a newly released sub intended to pair with the LS50.

 

[Astroboydivx]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. I auditioned the Focal 936 and 948 against the Kef R7, and instantly preferred the Focals. This weekend I'll attempt to compare the Focal 948 against Revel 208 (which I think will be outside my budget but let' s see).

It's amazing how affordable the Focal's are in Europe and UK. I've explored self-importing them from Europe and it almost stacks up but shipping the pallet to Australia is so expensive.

 

[stevenswall]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. I auditioned the Focal 936 and 948 against the Kef R7, and instantly preferred the Focals. This weekend I'll attempt to compare the Focal 948 against Revel 208 (which I think will be outside my budget but let' s see).

It's amazing how affordable the Focal's are in Europe and UK. I've explored self-importing them from Europe and it almost stacks up but shipping the pallet to Australia is so expensive.

You should see if they let you at audition them in mono... Amir has a great video explaining why that is the way to go.

While I liked the Focal Twin6 monitors used in a college studio, I'd be worried about the soundstage and reflections in a treated room with their towers. They don't seem to be known for controlled directivity, and many don't pay attention to ceiling and floor reflections which seem to be much better with coaxial mid/tweeters.

 

[Tokyo_John]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. I auditioned the Focal 936 and 948 against the Kef R7, and instantly preferred the Focals. This weekend I'll attempt to compare the Focal 948 against Revel 208 (which I think will be outside my budget but let' s see).

It's amazing how affordable the Focal's are in Europe and UK. I've explored self-importing them from Europe and it almost stacks up but shipping the pallet to Australia is so expensive.

Any update? Curious to hear your impressions, whatever you chose.