Upgrade: What speaker does 100-105db well yet still delicate at lower levels?

[mhardy6647]

Klipsch Heresy IVs. Sound great at low levels and can easily do 105 db.

Dollar for dollar, probably not a bad choice at all.
Loudspeakers like these (and the aforementioned vintage Altecs and JBLs vintage and, in some cases, modern) are astonishingly full-sounding at very low levels (e..g, pop tracks with "fadeouts").
The Heresys have the advantage of being small and, presumably, available pretty much everywhere in the world.

PS The woofer in a Heresy is 12 inches (30 cm). Not huge.
These 15 inch (38 cm) Altec drivers (the white one's a coaxial 604E, but the woofer part is very similar to the dark grey 515B in the foreground) aren't even particularly huge. Fabulous they are, though.

 

[Pieter1267]

Well guys i think the main goal is reached. I bought mb quarts 390 for 70 (!) Euro and after much fiddling with REW, minidsp I finally got them singing together with my svs sb1000pro.

At first i thought i made a mistake because at 50, 60 or 75 low pass it just didnt feel right. The solution was rather simple: crossover at 100hz! That somehow never made any difference with the Neat sx2's but for this combo its fantastic.

Then i let autorew create a nice peq for the svs and voila. The lower volume sounds almost as good as the Neats but at higher volume there is no more distortion at volume settings wich made the Neats crash.

I tested 101db no problem for a very short confirmation and while i have earplugs, i dont need more than that really. (In addition it also confirmed the Quad 606 mkI, the non-toroid psu one, has more than enough power. That thing can thrown down some.)

I decided for now, im going to keep this setup and sell the Neat Acoustics. I will slowly add to my savings untill i have some more to justify a big spending in the €3000-4000 range. I really hope to find a nice Revel F208. The offers in Europe are really low. I will also visit some stores for some choice auditions.

Here is a pic of the current lay out. Nevermind the messy sound isolation foam. Ill fix that later. Note the brackets are measured 5cm higher than the F208 height measurements. When there is a new change ill update this thread again.Thanks a lot everybody!

 

[Pieter1267]

Short update:

The search hasnt yielded new main speakers but sofar the MB Quarts 390 doing just great for now.

I did change the sub after advice the SVS SB 1000 pro also doesnt produce above 95db.

After some consideration on SVS update i went a different route: passive sub with PA amp. I bought a 15" Dayton ultimax driver that was already in a cabinet. I ordered a 2nd Dayton ultimax wich should arrive mid january. The first Dayton seller also sold me a Behringer inuke 6000 pa amp for a total price amp+speaker 70% of what i got for the SVS. Ill post some REW measurements later but it performs much, much better than the SVS. Together with the MB Quarts i really am pumping some power! 2nd picture you see the inuke6000 below the Quad 34. Above the minidsp ddrc and back right is the Quad 606 mkI.

To do:

Build the 2nd Dayton sub (they are rather big but i have the space.) After the 2nd sub is finished i can also finish the roomdecoration. Everything is rather messy now and i need a new file cabinet and space for books.

Sell the Neats. Not a lot of buyers yet. I dont want to drop the price much more just yet.

After selling Neats auditioning proposals for new mains. Super Lintons, Revel 206 or 208? Or? We will see.

The passive sub plus pa, d class amp is a very nice and ultra cheap one i can recommend bigtime. Ditto the Dayton driver performance. If you have the space, minidsp, umik and rew: go for it.

Happy holidays guys!

 

[beagleman]

problems reported with bass.

The Lintons look a very good speaker but not outstanding. At the moment, they are not in consideration for various reasons mentioned in previous postings.

Thanks for reminding though. I really like the drivers look.

For instance the Super Lintons, would walk all over your current speakers, yet you kinda bashed them as being less than what you have now.
Perhaps WATCH some of Erins reviews, I am getting the impression your "Neat" speakers are not quite as great as you believe.

Some truly good speakers have been mentioned, and you......wait, you got something....

 

[Salt]

Anybody mentioned a concept with ESS AMT-1?

 

[Pieter1267]

And then, out of nowhere, i found a set of F208's in Germany. They sound fantastic! The low is so good i lowered the crossoverpoint to about 55hz for my passive dayton subs. Really happy!

 

[Batmobil3250]

Hi

Since a few months im considering an upgrade to my current speaker system, Neat Acoustic sx2.

After many weeks of talking, posting, researching ive narrowed down some requirements for my upgrade se

- capable of 105db at 1 meter without problems
- passive. Non debatable
- bookshelf of floorstanding
- has to give the same low level volume excellence the Neats give
- though their aluminium tweeters are a bit harsh at times (yet perfect for bad masterings)
- but i definitly want speakers with some more oomph in the 80hz and up region (i will marry any new pair with svs 1000 pro sub), so handling over 100 watt a must.
- preferably sealed or front ported. They will be placed 30cm from a wall
- budget is about $1500-2000. Preferable used. Looks not that important but KEF looks the cheapest, un speaker like ive ever seen (and im 54 and seen hundreds of types). Please note i live in Europe where speakers are sold about 30-50% more than in the good old US of A.

Sofar i went through a lot of suggestions.


off the table:

Dynaudio 40 is a no.
Sonus faber concerto g2 is a no
The revel f206 was a strong contender but as an upgrade to the Neats i dont think its worth the smallish difference on paper. They have bigger drivers and perform around 102db but that seems to be their limit. I want speakers with a lot of headroom.
Amphion one18 dropped for reliability issues.
Neat has horrible service (non existent in the netherlands) so byebye.
No kef.
No Harbeth (way too expensive for what they offer).
No Ascend Acoustics. They perform gold medals all round on spinorama but i read several owners reviews that at volume they are not the best.

Currently still on the table

Atc scm19. The 11 will make me regret not going for the 19 several owners said. Used prices are way above value though (12 year old model), and somehow sellers rather keep them around €1900 for months on hifishark instead of selling now for a more reasonable 1600. But as far as oomph requirement goes, the perfect candidate.

Revel f208, 226be. The former looks to be able to do it, hit all the marks and for decent price. The latter is too expensive*.

Ascilab a6b. But the quoted $2900 a pair might push it way above my budgetlimit. After customs would be €3500. With a dealer probably over €4000. Thats a definite no. There are no user reviews on volume yet. And there could be delays for another 12 months delivery. Who knows.

Hearing good things about Spendor. What model would fit the budget?

Totem signature model one. Kind of expensive. Very coloured to some users. I havent tested them myself yet.

The Revels doing great in reviews but the slashing of performa3 salesprices of 45% and more makes you wonder how much of that new 226be salesprice of €9000 was material, or the name sucking your wallet dry? I rarely met such unkind dealers than the guys i talked to 3 weeks ago.

Anything else i should consider?

Let me jump to your last sentence. You should consider 1) Start study acoustics, music, recording and electroacoustics. 2) I assume the set is not used for recording and only listening to music in a home environment . so why 105dB. There is hardly any recorded music available with that dynamic range. Sound like you have found a set you like (ATC SCM 19) but they don’t live up to your requirements????? You can not judge value on age. Note, the 3” mid driver has been around for decades and is still considered to be one of the best available in a commercial speaker. If 300 Euro part you for a speaker you really like then I don’t understand why you look at Revels etc. Your assumption about speakers is sold for more than 30-50% in EU compared US is an incorret generalisation. Go for the ATC’s. The way they handle dynamics is outstanding, their drivers is made to work under pressure for endless hours and will also reproduce the dynamic spectrum BUT you need an equally good amplifier able to deliver some juice.

 

[Pieter1267]

So i ran an spl test and this is with the UMIK1 at the normal listening spot and when flat out (i used earplugs) i now reach 105db without any distortion!

At first i couldnt figure out why i got some distortion at 75% before but it appears the Quad 34 preamp has different gain-parameters per inputchannel. The radioinput is 100mv wich gives isues while the cd is 300mv. So i switched from the radioinput to the cd input and now i can open the volume to 100%, no distortion! Finally with these Revel F208's i found the perfect match for that Quad 34-606mk1 combo. It really blows my mind how Quad made such amplifiers reach such results. Also i reached my goal of realising a system that can do 105db no problem. Thanks a lot for all your input guys!


The journey in short (3 years):

- bought refurbished quad 606mk1 w 15000 caps
- bought refurbished quad 34 pre amp
- bought svs 1000sb sub
- bought neat sx2 main speakers
- bought umik1
- bought minidsp ddrc dirac
- sold svs sb1000
- bought dayton 15" sub plus behringer inuke 3000 pa amp
- bought a 2nd dayton 15" diy
- bought mbquarts 390
- sold neat sx2
- bought Revel F208 endgame speakers

I will never sell any of this anymore. For the future i might add atc scm11 for music production, and maybe upgrade the 606mk1 to mk2 spec. Also perhaps a 2nd 606 so i can bi amp the revels. Maybe upgrade the behringer pa amp if it goes boom. But all that is just maintenance. The core system is done. Super happy! What a life we have as audio nerds.

Edit: typo tnx @Salt

 

[Salt]

You don't mean 205 dB in reality ...