If you're even remotely satisfied with the Neats SX2 with their 5 inch / 13 cm woofer and published 86 dB sensitivity, you don't need 105 dB.
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Upgrade: What speaker does 100-105db well yet still delicate at lower levels?
- Thread starter Pieter1267
- Start date
But I think that’s his point. He’s really satisfied with the SX2 and wants to bottle that experience at high SPLs… which is very tough.
JBL 3722N Two-way Screen Array, Passive model with network
| Rated Maximum SPL | 127dB, @ 1m (3.3 ft) 133db peak |
Just saying that a moderate increase in power handling would do the trick and that a number of speakers will be enough, no need to go for something that will do 105 dB at 1 m with zero distortion and zero compression.
That is, either the Linton or the Super Linton will have significantly more bass and higher SPL than their current set up. So will a number of floor standers in the Kef, or Focal, or Elac or Wharfedale range. Especially with a sub.
IMHO, the Aura range at Wharfedale looks quite good both visually and sonically, and I have no reason to believe the floorstanders are worse than the bookshelf which has measures quite well.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
Yes but in this situation, given the focus on SPL, I think we're looking at hitting some nonlinearities even when things are going well... Saying "speakers are linear" is a little bit like saying "cars drive straight" - true except for all the extremely common situations in which they don't. Even decent speakers have detectable HD and IMD at moderate volumes.
IngMishael
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Well they can get some PAs.
Dunlavy comes to mind since they're insisting on 105dBC SPL at 1m
Dunlavy comes to mind since they're insisting on 105dBC SPL at 1m
How does this work? They measure drastically different at different spl levels? (assuming they're in good order as they increase spl, which would be more my focus than worrying about how they sound at lower volume)
DSJR
Major Contributor
As an aside, speakers such as the OP has would probably be screaming at much over 95dB and that may give a 'louder than it is' kind of presentation. His amp though, is a real 'iron fist in velvet glove' kind of presentation I remember, with no hard clipping traits to make the listener wince at higher levels.
Theta
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RubishTo me the A6B is the most interesting because it includes the Purifi driver. I think that will not only go pretty far in terms of SPL because of the high excursion, they are measured as having really low distortion, so they should deliver all the nuance you're hoping for. In one review I read, they turned the driver all the way up until it started bottoming out and hitting stuff, they said the distortion was so low it didn't even sound like it was too loud...
It's a stretch budget-wise, but Purifi is really at the forefront right now, so if there's such a thing as "future-proof" speakers I think these are them.
The ATCs are sort of the opposite approach, I see their stuff as having a "classic" if not technologically modern sound. But by the same token it seems like they will have fans forever, so you can always sell them later.
OP
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- #50
Yes I like the Aura. I was looking for the Aura 3 but atkm they arent sold here.
Thing is there are plenty of speakers that will deliver just a bit more. Im thinking I better get a speaker that gets like 40% more, clinging near Club level SPL but then again not quite. It also needs to play great at lower levels. So in other comments a guy said "my rule of thumb is if you really want a speaker upgrade, you should triple your previous budget.
Thats what I did. My previous budget was between 500 and 1000. I managed to get neat SX2 for 700 (when they got sold new around 2k). So, now my budget is between 2 and 3k. Maybe ill stretch it to 3.5 for something reall really great. I got offered a revel F226Be for €3999 and decided good as they are, and a big chunk off its retail price, that still was a dealers offering.
Im being more disciplined and think 3k is good enough. I found a few revel f208s for around that mark. The Lintons, ive looked at, nearly bought at Black Friday deal but decied that a. it isnt an improvement on budget, b. several comments saying they sound good but not 2000 euro great. Then the Super Lintons came. I admit its a good fit but I dont like the looks. Its my money, I can decide what is and what isnt important. Also the F208 looks to be beter than the Super Linton in Spinorama. At the moment im inclined to go for that Revel F208. The ATC SCM19V2 while probably even better for my aim to play higher SPL for some moments, also isnt the 3x previous budget guideline. And they are 12 years old, with conventional design.
But im happy with all the comments. Good food for thought from people who love audio just as much as me. And actually im really happy already. It took years to get the Quads just right. The MiniDSP addition is fantastic. The SVS sub still a good buy. I just spent weeks and weeks to almost entirely rebuild and treat my listening room with amazing results. The DIRAC is giving extra life to the current neat SX2. Again, the extra SPL is only for short moments of specific music. 90% of the time im listening to different types and and much lower levels. And im enjoying every single day. Music and this current system is next to my fantastic wife, the absolute joy of my life. What more can a man want? The sole fact that im also able to even upgrade even more, is also a blessing. Sometimes I think people dont count their blessings enough.
Enough off topic, more to the point: I also dont want to fall in the trap to endlessly pour money into a hobby. 3000 euro is expensive enough as it is.
if anyone else has other options, brands, types than the ones takled above - again, the (Super) Lintons were considered, but arent anymore - then thank you. And have a great day. With nice music!
The Dunster
Member
Based on your pricing for Revel F208 you might also be able to get into some Dali Epicon 2 bookshelf speakers for under 3k as they are clearing them out (old model) for the new Epikore 3 that replaces them.
Dali Epicon 2 can do 108db according to the manufacturer. It is rear ported, but manual recommends 25cm minimum).
www.i-fidelity.net
They are a speaker that just gets louder as you crank the volume - nothing really changes balance or tone wise - you just get more of it.
Dali Epicon 2 can do 108db according to the manufacturer. It is rear ported, but manual recommends 25cm minimum).
Dali Epicon 2: lb report dali epicon 2 by Olaf Sturm - i-fidelity.net
www.i-fidelity.net
They are a speaker that just gets louder as you crank the volume - nothing really changes balance or tone wise - you just get more of it.
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OP
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- #52
That is actualy my original question point re: rear ported. First, doesnt sealed vs ported give a difference in bass anyway? Its one of the reasons I bought the sealed subwoofer.Based on your pricing for Revel F208 you might also be able to get into some Dali Epicon 2 bookshelf speakers for under 3k as they are clearing them out (old model) for the new Epikore 3 that replaces them.
Dali Epicon 2 can do 108db according to the manufacturer. It is rear ported, but manual recommends 25cm minimum).
Dali Epicon 2: lb report dali epicon 2 by Olaf Sturm - i-fidelity.net
They are a speaker that just gets louder as you crank the volume - nothing really changes balance or tone wise - you just get more of it.
Second, the f208 is front ported. Those dali like the Super Linton, rear ported. I always learned that rear ported should not be close or near rear walls. Several reviewers said the Lintons come much more alive when you place them away from walls. But in here some people said putting rear ported against walls is no problem. What is the truth?
Also, if i was to buy a rear ported speaker, is it wise to plug them? The Neats are down firing but i noticed improvement since i plugged them anyway.
I did some configuration on the super lintons and i have to say, with the grill on, they look quite ok. Maybe i should aks the dealer if i can test them at home, on my Quads. And I did some measurements. The F208's are huge. Huge! Something also to consider.
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I’ve had the Sierra LX speakers in my living room for over a year, and I’ve loved how they sound at low listening levels. They perform exceptionally well because of their high sensitivity, advanced driver technology, and precise tuning. The custom-designed drivers, including a low-distortion midwoofer and a high-resolution dome tweeter, ensure that even subtle details in the music are reproduced with incredible clarity and accuracy. The low-resonance bamboo cabinet also minimizes unwanted coloration, preserving tonal balance even at reduced volumes. If you’re not hearing that, I’d suggest taking another listen—these speakers are built to excel in exactly those conditions. The bass…. oh my
IngMishael
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Bass is omnispherical in propagation so doesn't matter if sealed or ported. Matters more the shape to the bass extension and it's roll off.
Same reason a rear ported Super Linton is more front wall friendly than a ported Linton 85th Anniversary.
Has nothing to do with the port.
All you have to make sure is the distance from the back of the speaker to the front wall is at least 2x the diameter of the port.
Infact they are geared towards being put close to the wall so much, I regard their specs given as a direct lie. They definitely need the close placement to get their stated bass extension. With plenty of air around them, they won't get anywhere near subbass extension as advertised.
I get that a manufacturer is inclined to rate a new and improved model as better (here: lower extension) than the previous model. Pure marketing. But with these huge differences, I'm honestly put off by what Wharfedale did there. That, and their AI narrated promotion video has damaged my opinion of them as a brand.
Front ported vs rear ported doesn't matter all that much, you do need at least 2-3 inches when it's rear ported, but I think that's not an issue for most people. Think about how downward ports have no particular issues. With front ports, port noise can be an issue.
What matters is the bass response, if it's tuned so that it's flat until it's not, there will be probably enough bass response that you don't want that much wall reinforcement. If it's tuned so that there is a shelf in the low bass frequencies, it's probably suited for a near wall placement. You can have both types of tunings with a front or a rear port.
If it's tuned flat, you can probably DSP the response even with the speaker near a wall.
They DO NOT have high sensitivity and won't get close to the OP's listening levels. Not to say they aren't excellent speakers, but the facts matter.
Any speaker tuned neutral should sound good at low levels and high output, if it can do the high output. Granted 105 is not really a level I would advise taking a speaker in a home, just asking for hearing damage.
I use some hilariously overkill speakers at the moment. Vbs 10.2 by mtg design. They lack a bit of refinement in the very top end but otherwise fine. I got bored of kali lp6 in here as they seemed to just compress at regular volumes at my LP. Spectacular in every other way though.
I use some hilariously overkill speakers at the moment. Vbs 10.2 by mtg design. They lack a bit of refinement in the very top end but otherwise fine. I got bored of kali lp6 in here as they seemed to just compress at regular volumes at my LP. Spectacular in every other way though.
One thing to keep in mind is that an SVS 1000 Pro is only going to get you ~95 dB output @ 20 Hz. That is a very long way from 105 dB. Not sure what type of music you are listening to but if EDM or similar you will need quite a bit more sub to get to 105 dB. It looks like in the SVS line the SVS SB16-Ultra will get you there. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KjlXBWMPAHgU_V9DAHSdIZ_ke0MxwH6ekt3vTIlYOJU/edit?gid=0#gid=0
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ZolaIII
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@Pieter1267 how good are you with DSP processing (EQ-ing) and do you have any? Every enclosure has it's advantages and disadvantages. The purpose of the port is to reinforce or introduce what woofer can't do. Unfortunately all home speakers ports tunings are done in the mater that port's cuff out a lot under what woofer actually can. Only some very good PA subs are done in the right way that the port supports lower limit of what woofer does pushing it's actual response not a cuff in front. They are loudest but port must have enough space to maintain flow without obstacles and they do lose function (flow) at certain SPL (and regain it going higher or lower). Closed enclosure requires big in volume box in order to have more extension but it's still usually smaller than ported one. Only the driver does the work and compression of the box help's a little bit. They roll out gradually in lower slope (dB/octave). Not so loud and a bit more of control and of course less extension on the bottom. Open buffle is well open and uses actual room as a box. Behaves much like closed buffle but goes a little louder but introduces it's own fair share of problems like lack of separation in combination with bad back to front refractions timings.
All of this doesn't matter much. You will use ported mains and they won't have same slope as closed box ones even if you block the port's they will get somewhere in between. But you don't need and want to kill it anyway and obstructing (plugging) the ports help there (and so does DSP in much more ways). When you do it high enough where woofer does it easy on it's own you lower the pressure on it and with it you gain lower THD on same SPL or a bit higher max SPL without distorting bad. All do it's just couple of dB sometimes even couple is not so little (±12 dB is psy 2x and ½). You let subs play what you cut to what they can. Amount of sub's they size do you want it to get physical or not (neighbours certainly don't) is discussable and so is the low - sub bass tail but what isn't is a 105 Hz knee (self filter) for psy equal loudness compensation which is important so that you don't have to turn the hause down or go deff (or blind) and cetera wanting to have that full range feeling pushing it very loud. As it pushes the bass up significantly so you may have it even on the level of common talk for the rest. It also boosts highs a bit but only on low volume. It won't be great on really low volumes but on normal ones (mid 70's programme normalised) it work's pretty good. As you go over 88~90 dB programme correction for equal loudness actually scales another way around (reducing bass).
If you like Revel's and have a "good bargain" on them go for it. Linton's will do it just fine on the other hand. Then we can talk 4 ways wide with super tweeters as bright as a sun to widen and reinforce small ones in all home speakers.
All of this doesn't matter much. You will use ported mains and they won't have same slope as closed box ones even if you block the port's they will get somewhere in between. But you don't need and want to kill it anyway and obstructing (plugging) the ports help there (and so does DSP in much more ways). When you do it high enough where woofer does it easy on it's own you lower the pressure on it and with it you gain lower THD on same SPL or a bit higher max SPL without distorting bad. All do it's just couple of dB sometimes even couple is not so little (±12 dB is psy 2x and ½). You let subs play what you cut to what they can. Amount of sub's they size do you want it to get physical or not (neighbours certainly don't) is discussable and so is the low - sub bass tail but what isn't is a 105 Hz knee (self filter) for psy equal loudness compensation which is important so that you don't have to turn the hause down or go deff (or blind) and cetera wanting to have that full range feeling pushing it very loud. As it pushes the bass up significantly so you may have it even on the level of common talk for the rest. It also boosts highs a bit but only on low volume. It won't be great on really low volumes but on normal ones (mid 70's programme normalised) it work's pretty good. As you go over 88~90 dB programme correction for equal loudness actually scales another way around (reducing bass).
If you like Revel's and have a "good bargain" on them go for it. Linton's will do it just fine on the other hand. Then we can talk 4 ways wide with super tweeters as bright as a sun to widen and reinforce small ones in all home speakers.
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