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Upgrade: What speaker does 100-105db well yet still delicate at lower levels?


problems reported with bass.

The Lintons look a very good speaker but not outstanding. At the moment, they are not in consideration for various reasons mentioned in previous postings.

Thanks for reminding though. I really like the drivers look.
 
..but Lintons are Rear Ported. I want speakers about 30cm from the wall. That will never work.
And they will stay ported as that's how they are designed even when you plug them and put them to the back wall. You can DSP cut and iron them down under crossover points and you won't be getting or needing any port cuff out. You won't find compression high output mains this days even in PA. To a in space roll of you do crossover slope order to Butterworth quality paying attention especially to transition area and shaping independent as necessary (PEQ's). After removing room fundamental harmonic to even get started. If you want to spend more aim at really good 10" compression subs and aim how much they give in mid 30's for home to 88 dB reference that should work fine and bare in mind how subs measurements are mid field (2 m). For the sakes of reason another exactly same SVS sub will be more than fine.
 
And they will stay ported as that's how they are designed even when you plug them and put them to the back wall. You can DSP cut and iron them down under crossover points and you won't be getting or needing any port cuff out. You won't find compression high output mains this days even in PA. To a in space roll of you do crossover slope order to Butterworth quality paying attention especially to transition area and shaping independent as necessary (PEQ's). After removing room fundamental harmonic to even get started. If you want to spend more aim at really good 10" compression subs and aim how much they give in mid 30's for home to 88 dB reference that should work fine and bare in mind how subs measurements are mid field (2 m). For the sakes of reason another exactly same SVS sub will be more than fine.
The SVS sub is not going anywhere. I was thinking about getting 2 but if you dont change seating position much, it doesnt really matter.

The Super Linton can be compared somewhat in Spinorama. It seems the revel f208 is better at low frequency. But its a close call furher down the road.

Screenshot 2024-12-07 at 13-14-58 Spinorama compare CEA2034 graphs for speakers Revel F208 (AS...png
 
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For passive boxes, a seriously good powerful amp would help to 'open them out' a bit I'm sure, as any passive crossover gets in the way to some degree or other (one thing that the Super Linton attempts to minimise more than the previous model).

Are there no actives that could do it, such as KH150s if you sold the Neats and driving amp? They'll arguably sound clearer at a stroke and render the need for such high volume levels less necessary I suspect. The response can be tweaked to help positioning and th elarger bass driver would be less distorted in the bass at high levels anyway.

Just a thought ;)
 
The SVS sub is not going anywhere. I was thinking about getting 2 but if you dont change seating position much, it doesnt really matter.

The Super Linton can be compared somewhat in Spinorama. It seems the revel f208 is better at low frequency. But its a close call furher down the road.

View attachment 412093
As it's 2x 8" woofer's vs one which will arguably give +3 dB in the mid bass but even so distortion jumps fast under 100 Hz as they get to port and wild under it. But you cut that part of in 2.2 setup letting subs do it each per it's own chenel. Actually you do it higher in order to correctly implement equal loudness normalisation which knew is at 105 Hz as you need a lot of bass boost under and contained above it so 120 Hz and even 6.5" woofers can do it on their own but louder you want bigger it is or more of them and time domain isn't a issue too over 10" but even then not a big one especially on closed enclosure box.
I hope this makes sense to you.
 
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JBL 4312G - 3 way oldschool monitor, needs a tiny bit of midrange EQ but otherwise a nice high SPL option.

KV2 ESD 6 - Small PA Speaker with very good passive crossover. Needs subwoofers but delivers extreme SPL at lowest distortion for Hifi purpose.

Nubert Nuboxx B70 - 3 way floorstander, needs more power but also very good for all SPLs. Bass down to 30 Hz…
 
As it's 2x 8" woofer's vs one which will arguably give +3 dB in the mid bass but even so distortion jumps fast under 100 Hz as they get to port and wild under it. But you cut that part of in 2.2 setup letting subs do it each per it's own chenel. Actually you do it higher in order to correctly implement equal loudness normalisation which knew is at 105 Hz as you need a lot of bass boost under and contained above it so 120 Hz and even 6.5" woofers can do it on their own but louder you want bigger it is or more of them and time domain isn't a issue too over 10" but even then not a big one especially on closed enclosure box.
I hope this makes sense to you.
It does, but even if they blow away the queens hifi herself: i just dont like the appearance of the Lintons. Many thanks but they wont be bought.
 
Any classic Altec product*.
A nice pair of Duplexes in appropriate cabinets will do fine, and only require a couple-three watts for 105 dB at 1 meter. By modern standards, they're even cost-effective.



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* OK... JBL, too... but I prefer Altecs. :)
 
For passive boxes, a seriously good powerful amp would help to 'open them out' a bit I'm sure, as any passive crossover gets in the way to some degree or other (one thing that the Super Linton attempts to minimise more than the previous model).

Are there no actives that could do it, such as KH150s if you sold the Neats and driving amp? They'll arguably sound clearer at a stroke and render the need for such high volume levels less necessary I suspect. The response can be tweaked to help positioning and th elarger bass driver would be less distorted in the bass at high levels anyway.

Just a thought ;)
Oh active would make the choice easier.

But I invested a lot of money in a tiptop Quad 606 mkI, with a tiptop Quad34. Its such a heavenly combination I will never change. I will be buried with my 606 and 34. I will mention it on my tombstone. The Quad is such a gem people say i should get as neutral a speaker as possible, but probably everything will sound superb with them. The Neat isnt and in fact, the sx2 are quite limited. But the Quads make them sing. Highly, highly recommended.
 
At the desired volume levels you should consider renting some PA speakers. After 3 or 4 listening sessions your hearing will be so bad that your upgraditis will be cured.

 
Upgrade: What speaker does 100-105db well yet still delicate at lower levels?
Speakers are linear (as long as they are not over-driven) so a speaker that sounds (and measures) good at high levels will sound (and measure good) at lower levels.... with a couple of exceptions:

Our perception of the Equal Loudness Curves which make it sound like the bass has been turned-down when the volume is turned-down.

And a more efficient/sensitive speaker will make everything louder and any background noise may be more audible.

Of course, getting high SPL bass is the most difficult thing. It's not too hard getting earsplitting levels at higher frequencies.
 
We still don’t know whether the 105 dB refers to peak or average levels, or if it’s A or C weighting, which makes it difficult to provide accurate advice.
There has been mention of bookshelf speakers, floorstanding speakers, PA speakers, and subwoofers..
 
Oh active would make the choice easier.

But I invested a lot of money in a tiptop Quad 606 mkI, with a tiptop Quad34. Its such a heavenly combination I will never change. I will be buried with my 606 and 34. I will mention it on my tombstone. The Quad is such a gem people say i should get as neutral a speaker as possible, but probably everything will sound superb with them. The Neat isnt and in fact, the sx2 are quite limited. But the Quads make them sing. Highly, highly recommended.
Yes I know :) The 606 family of amps especially :D
 
- capable of 105db at 1 meter without problems
- passive. Non debatable
I want to play some music with big basguitar, drums, huge ensembles, maybe a part of a DJ set in a louder than loud setting for about 15 minutes per week, as the doctor ordered.

“I want to win the lottery, without playing more than one ticket, non debatable.”

just kidding.

To achieve minimal compression and linearity, it is a lot harder to go pure passive only *in your budget*.

If you look at Genelec, Neumann, and Meyer Sound’s advertised peak SPL (pink noise) and actual frequency response on a sweep, achieving 106* dB at 1m is a lot harder. (*106 since that’s what Amir tests at).

8361A advertises 118 dB “short term” and cannot actually do 106 dB at 1m.
1733595743322.png

1733595682919.png


The Neumann KH420 advertises 122.4 dB peak
1733595827654.png


But also cannot handle 106 dB
1733595888484.png


Meyer Sound Amie is designed to handle 105 dB peaks at 2m per cinema monitoring standards, advertises 117.5 dB peak pink noise SPL but reaches 97 dB in the bass on a sweep.
1733596186860.png

Which correlates with Amir’s measurements too
1733596234217.png



So if you want “105 dB pink noise” at 1m, it’s one goal but if you 105 dB clean sweep at 1m, it’s a different story.

The reasons DJs use PA speakers for their music is that you really need a ton of power and headroom.

Meyer Sound X40 advertised at 130 dB pink noise and independently graded at 120-125 dB peak SPLs

1733596934719.png


Also has a sweep which just meets 105 dB flat.
1733597134669.png



So at this point the question is what do you mean by “105 dB without problems” (at 1m)?
 
capable of 105db at 1 meter without problems
Have you used a decibel meter on your current speakers to see how loud the loudest you are running them is? I think 105db is within the range of PA speakers and almost no hi-fi/studio speakers within your budget are going to be happy at those levels, but then again, will your ears be happy at those levels?

Are you sure you need that much SPL, have you measured with a db meter?
 
@Koeitje Yup, I registered the improved Super Linton. Still didnt convince me. No reviews on louder playing, unlike ATC. And if were slamming ATC for being conventional, the Lintons bring me back to the 70s. Visually not appealing. (that said, the drivers do look very nice).Its not the main thing but still. For the upgrade budget I want at least as nice looking as the Neats. EDIT: I did some more reading on the Lintons. The conclusion is they cannot be placed too close to a wall. Wich is what I want. Also, some question the huge price hike of the Super Linton over the normal one when in some measurements, they dont look that much different.
You clearly didn't read or watch any reviews:

Look at the compression data for both of them. The Super's play up to 102dB with less compression than the normal ones. Also the Super's are designed to be put closer to the walls than the normal ones were, just look at the data (or Erin's conclusion).

You may not like the looks, but they do exactly what you want them to do.
 
problems reported with bass.

The Lintons look a very good speaker but not outstanding. At the moment, they are not in consideration for various reasons mentioned in previous postings.

Thanks for reminding though. I really like the drivers look.
30cm from the wall is plenty. In fact the Super Lintons use an EBS alignment so they actually play really nicely close to a wall.

Also - 105dB/1m is very, very loud. Not many speakers can do that comfortably.

Further - why the insistence upon passives? Something like a Genelec S360 or 1237 would pass your requirements with flying colors.
 
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