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Upgrade to new AVR?

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Hattrick

Hattrick

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Given that the Arcam AVR 850 has Dirac, and assuming it works well (i don't know if all the bugs were addressed), if it has all the functionalities you want, changing to a new AVR won't take you anywhere.

What speakers and subwoofer(s) do you have?
I uploaded the new Dirac and it works great. I listed my speakers in my previous reply. In my great room I have a 9.2 system. All the issues are now resolved via the last repair. $900 plus 6 months waiting for parts. No more warranty.
 

Anterantz

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I uploaded the new Dirac and it works great. I listed my speakers in my previous reply. In my great room I have a 9.2 system. All the issues are now resolved via the last repair. $900 plus 6 months waiting for parts. No more warranty.
I have gone through two avr20 the first the toroidal hummed too much and protected itself at the reference level... I sold it to move to the avr30 which I have had for a week and although it sounds incredible, I still do not notice that difference from the G class and for cost the double! It was not updated to the latest version of net and arcam has sent me an avr31 that I will pick up tomorrow, I hope it is reliable because although I love the arcam sound it has been a headache and my previous av was the denon 8500h which had zero problems and sounded really good but arcam sounds better! Forget the nad t778, I had one in testing and the avr20 sounded a bit better.
 
OP
Hattrick

Hattrick

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I have gone through two avr20 the first the toroidal hummed too much and protected itself at the reference level... I sold it to move to the avr30 which I have had for a week and although it sounds incredible, I still do not notice that difference from the G class and for cost the double! It was not updated to the latest version of net and arcam has sent me an avr31 that I will pick up tomorrow, I hope it is reliable because although I love the arcam sound it has been a headache and my previous av was the denon 8500h which had zero problems and sounded really good but arcam sounds better! Forget the nad t778, I had one in testing and the avr20 sounded a bit better.
Curious when you get your AVR 31 if you notice an improvement in sound being both Movies and music from the AVR 20 and 30. Or is it the same just with some nice additional features?
 

JWAmerica

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I have gone through two avr20 the first the toroidal hummed too much and protected itself at the reference level... I sold it to move to the avr30 which I have had for a week and although it sounds incredible, I still do not notice that difference from the G class and for cost the double! It was not updated to the latest version of net and arcam has sent me an avr31 that I will pick up tomorrow, I hope it is reliable because although I love the arcam sound it has been a headache and my previous av was the denon 8500h which had zero problems and sounded really good but arcam sounds better! Forget the nad t778, I had one in testing and the avr20 sounded a bit better.
Sounds entirely subjective to me. Have you ever measured a difference between the models?
 

Anterantz

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Curious when you get your AVR 31 if you notice an improvement in sound being both Movies and music from the AVR 20 and 30. Or is it the same just with some nice additional features?
Arcam assured me that from avr30 to 31 only the hdmi 2.1 board differed so I don't think there will be improvements in sound!
 

Anterantz

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Sounds entirely subjective to me. Have you ever measured a difference between the models?
measured do you mean rew? When I change from avr, I always try them as they come out of the box without eq or anything... and I don't see the justification for paying double! I bought the 30 because I have boxes that are difficult to move and I use a high spl and the avr20 seemed to run out of steam and I was considering putting an xpa3 into the front trio! With that money I changed to the avr30 that has an extra thrust unlike the avr20 which in my case is enough.
 
OP
Hattrick

Hattrick

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Curious when you get your AVR 31 if you notice an improvement in sound being both Movies and music from the AVR 20 and 30. Or is it the same just with some nice additional features?
Thank you for the feedback. You saved me lots of money and time! I was considering upgrading my 850 to a 31 thinking there would be more sonic improvements mainly from the new DAC in the new Arcam AVR(s). Some of the other features mentioned of the 31 would be nice when one makes a move to 8K or has a need to upgrade to HDMI 2.2 per new external gear. Learning much about differences regarding DACs in general the last few days, It appears as a consensus that AVR DAC(s) are so close in sonic performance that most if not all of them do not offer much sonic improvement over one another in this level of AVR(s).
 

Daka

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Thinking about upgrading AVR20 to 2.1 hdmi and/or getting AV40. I get annoying delay when source is changing on my ATV - solid 5 seconds - wonder if newer hdcp would be faster. Plus whether it makes sense to spend extra for Av40 - would I hear the difference? I have external amps for majority of channels except 3 for which I would need to get amps if decided to get av40. Did anyone compared both?
 

pseudoid

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I am not a fan of "receivers" and your current Arcam AVR 850 seems to be equipped w/a built-in noise-generator fan.
But I am not here to recommend you to go with separate PrePro, like the Rotel RSP-1576MkII
But you may wish to look into Rotel RAP-1580MkII, if it is imperative that you go with a combined (receiver) rig.
 
OP
Hattrick

Hattrick

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Thinking about upgrading AVR20 to 2.1 hdmi and/or getting AV40. I get annoying delay when source is changing on my ATV - solid 5 seconds - wonder if newer hdcp would be faster. Plus whether it makes sense to spend extra for Av40 - would I hear the difference? I have external amps for majority of channels except 3 for which I would need to get amps if decided to get av40. Did anyone compared both?
That seems a bit long. I have an AVR850 recently back from the shop getting heat and HDMI issues resolved under warranty. I don't see much of a delay switching from source to source. I am staying with the the Arcam internal class G amps. I have demoed a $7K class A amp for my main L&R, which at low volume sounded really good but nothing much different from stock Class G at medium level to movie level say 60 - 70 on the screen per volume. If you have a the need for 2.1 being your hardware is 2.1 ready like new TV, Blue Ray, Xbox, or Playstation. Then the upgrade would be good for those items but that is a huge investment upgrade just for those devices.
 

Daka

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That seems a bit long. I have an AVR850 recently back from the shop getting heat and HDMI issues resolved under warranty. I don't see much of a delay switching from source to source. I am staying with the the Arcam internal class G amps. I have demoed a $7K class A amp for my main L&R, which at low volume sounded really good but nothing much different from stock Class G at medium level to movie level say 60 - 70 on the screen per volume. If you have a the need for 2.1 being your hardware is 2.1 ready like new TV, Blue Ray, Xbox, or Playstation. Then the upgrade would be good for those items but that is a huge investment upgrade just for those devices.
I suspect delay is related to my LG E9 handling rather than Arcam.
In regards to AV40 I do wonder - I read a lot of people going pre pro with Marantz or Denon and saying how much difference it makes in channel separation - but in Arcam people seem to see little to no difference - maybe because it’s build better
 
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Hattrick

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I suspect delay is related to my LG E9 handling rather than Arcam.
In regards to AV40 I do wonder - I read a lot of people going pre pro with Marantz or Denon and saying how much difference it makes in channel separation - but in Arcam people seem to see little to no difference - maybe because it’s build better
True, plus the Arcam units are rated per each channel driven per power where some are on channel driven at 1Khz tone which is a weak measurement.
 

Dj7675

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In regards to AV40 I do wonder - I read a lot of people going pre pro with Marantz or Denon and saying how much difference it makes in channel separation - but in Arcam people seem to see little to no difference - maybe because it’s build better
My takeaway... people are fickle. Subjective impressions regarding performance are not reliable in any way. Also there is SNTS... Shiny New Thing Syndrom... people love new things and the things they already have...
 

Daka

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My takeaway... people are fickle. Subjective impressions regarding performance are not reliable in any way. Also there is SNTS... Shiny New Thing Syndrom... people love new things and the things they already have...
SNTS or curiosity indeed. But unless someone will say there is big difference I’m not gonna pull a trigger. I might consider AVM70 as well but only when they certify roon on on it and possibly upgrade it with hdmi 2.1.
 

Dj7675

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But unless someone will say there is big difference I’m not gonna pull a trigger.
That is the trouble with buying based on what someone will say... I just don't believe you are going to hear a difference in the electronics (as long as nothing is broken). For all of these receivers/processors it comes down to..
-Their software implementation. Is it stable, is it easy to use (this is not a given). How many/how bad are the bugs?
-Do you require HDMI 2.1 or not (gaming etc)
-Number of channels needed
-EQ-How well does it work? How well does it EQ below 500hz (multiple subs, seat to seat variation, mains/sub integration). If manual EQ is important, is it included.
-Support/warranty
-Features-Loudness compensation, OSD, Roon, multizone support, [fill in the blank with whatever is important]
-DTSX support-If going behond 11 channels does it offer DTSx support
In the end you are much better off using the reviews here to make sure nothing is broken and performs good enough than trusting many individuals that claim night and day difference in the sound of electronics or subjective opinions on a piece of gear. Threads on AVSforum can be helpful, in particular on what kind of bugs people are experiencing and if it is something you want to deal with.
 

Daka

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That is the trouble with buying based on what someone will say... I just don't believe you are going to hear a difference in the electronics (as long as nothing is broken). For all of these receivers/processors it comes down to..
-Their software implementation. Is it stable, is it easy to use (this is not a given). How many/how bad are the bugs?
-Do you require HDMI 2.1 or not (gaming etc)
-Number of channels needed
-EQ-How well does it work? How well does it EQ below 500hz (multiple subs, seat to seat variation, mains/sub integration). If manual EQ is important, is it included.
-Support/warranty
-Features-Loudness compensation, OSD, Roon, multizone support, [fill in the blank with whatever is important]
-DTSX support-If going behond 11 channels does it offer DTSx support
In the end you are much better off using the reviews here to make sure nothing is broken and performs good enough than trusting many individuals that claim night and day difference in the sound of electronics or subjective opinions on a piece of gear. Threads on AVSforum can be helpful, in particular on what kind of bugs people are experiencing and if it is something you want to deal with.
I’m talking about changing AVR20 to AV40 so majority of features is the same the only difference is one of them is pre/pro. General consensus is - people prefer pre/pro because of better channel separation. Whether it’s worth the extra cost is more personal matter. But in case of Arcam I didn’t come across anyone that would say there is noticeable difference between them. Sure thing everyone is different and just because someone gives subjective opinion doesn’t mean You would agree but it indicates a possibility. Possibility to give it either try or pass. I don’t have need for XLR connections so it would be simply need to be noticeable difference to justify it and only because i can get it new for 55% of the original rrp.
 
OP
Hattrick

Hattrick

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I uploaded the new Dirac and it works great. I listed my speakers in my previous reply. In my great room I have a 9.2 system. All the issues are now resolved via the last repair. $900 plus 6 months waiting for parts. No more warranty.
New update. Harmon honored my repair and refunding me all my repair cost. The AVR 850 works and sounds great!
 

_Wilco_

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New update. Harmon honored my repair and refunding me all my repair cost. The AVR 850 works and sounds great!
Did you eventually upgrade or stayed with the avr850?
I wonder if going from the avr850 to the avr30 (avr31) would be an improvement in sound (I don't need all the new whistles)?
 

jdg78

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FWIW, I was in a similar situation as the original poster last year. Had an Arcam AVR600 that had numerous reliability issues over the years (overheating, fan noise, faulty switching, etc), but I kept holding onto it as it sounded great, and I figured it would cost an arm and a leg to replace it with something comparable.

It finally crapped out for good late last year, but after all the reliability issues I had the first time around, I didn’t wanted to spend anywhere near the $6,000 that an equivalent new Arcam AVR model cost.

I decided to try a Denon just to see how it compared sonically, and purchased an X3700H direct from the manufacturer for about $1200 on sale, figuring I could return it if I didn’t find it up to par.

To my surprise, not only did the Denon sound every bit as good as my old Arcam at one-fifth the cost, it also has way better functionality and a much more seamless overall experience (not surprising given the age of the Arcam). Runs way cooler and quieter as well.

I used to be a loyal Arcam user and have owned numerous of their products over the years (integrated amps, power amps, AVR, CD players) but as great as they sound, every one of them either had long term reliability issues or else died prematurely.

Personally, I’m done with this brand given all the issues I’ve had combined with the difficulty and expense of repairs, and getting the Denon was an eye opener in that you can get equally great sounding gear at much lower prices these days.
 

_Wilco_

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FWIW, I was in a similar situation as the original poster last year. Had an Arcam AVR600 that had numerous reliability issues over the years (overheating, fan noise, faulty switching, etc), but I kept holding onto it as it sounded great, and I figured it would cost an arm and a leg to replace it with something comparable.

It finally crapped out for good late last year, but after all the reliability issues I had the first time around, I didn’t wanted to spend anywhere near the $6,000 that an equivalent new Arcam AVR model cost.

I decided to try a Denon just to see how it compared sonically, and purchased an X3700H direct from the manufacturer for about $1200 on sale, figuring I could return it if I didn’t find it up to par.

To my surprise, not only did the Denon sound every bit as good as my old Arcam at one-fifth the cost, it also has way better functionality and a much more seamless overall experience (not surprising given the age of the Arcam). Runs way cooler and quieter as well.

I used to be a loyal Arcam user and have owned numerous of their products over the years (integrated amps, power amps, AVR, CD players) but as great as they sound, every one of them either had long term reliability issues or else died prematurely.

Personally, I’m done with this brand given all the issues I’ve had combined with the difficulty and expense of repairs, and getting the Denon was an eye opener in that you can get equally great sounding gear at much lower prices these days.
Thanks for your reply.
Would you have replaced the Arcam if you didn't have issues?
I don't have (and had) any issues with my avr850 (maybe I am lucky), so I was only curious if there was anything to win (within reasonable pricing) if I upgrade.
I am very happy with my avr850.
 
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