Upgrade time - 5 year old system gone - will I notice the new?

[Insearchofthedream]

I don't think worthless is accurate. It's not worthless - just not scientifically evidential (or something like that).

Volume matching isn't something I can do to a degree of accuracy that would withstand scrutiny - but I'm aware that different SPL is part of the picture.

Knowing that, we increased / reduced volume on both amps - going louder/quieter on the xtz did not change the sounstage or impact/clarity of instruments.

It just got louder or quieter.

As a user in a home (not a lab), I just have access to the amps & the associated hifi gear - all I will do is plug it in & listen. At a range of volumes, there are differences as I said.

I'm sure they can be picked out from measurements - I'm asking for input as to where I might see these differences represented in the measurements that have been done under controlled conditions by people with racks full of test gear.

 

[Times]

Is it just that we have not determined measurements that tell the whole picture?

No. If there's an audible difference, (the right) measurements will show them.

I do notice a difference, wife & daughter (who are uninsterested in the kit whatsoever) also notice it.

Wife & daughter have no interest in gear - so no bias - they don't have any knowledge or interest in what is making the noise.

You need to test it blind, level matched and without knowing, which amplifier is connected. Not being interested in audio (gear) doesn't save you from being misled by your own perception.

percieving things ≠ hearing things

If you don't want to do that or can't do that - just keep the one you think sounds better.

 

[jhwalker]

So - this will put the cat amongst the pigeons.

I've now had several listening sessions with the new e3 a7 mono amps / swapped back & forth a few times with the previous XTZ Edge a2-300.

I do notice a difference, wife & daughter (who are uninsterested in the kit whatsoever) also notice it.

What we hear, when the volume is up at around 60 on the WIIM Ultra (acting as pre-amp) is that bass & guitars sound crisper. Also hearing a very noticeable difference in the way we can hear (imagine?) the size of the recording room / location of the vocalists.

Close your eyes & you can feel the big stage / tell that it was recorded in a cupboard etc.

I can explain away the 1st difference by measurements like power - but not the second.

I'm a beleiver of everything audible is visible in measurements, but confused by these findings - the xtz measures well enough that any noise is below audible, and has 300w into 4 ohms. The 3e a7 has 250w into 4 ohms but better SINAD (but again shouldn't be audible).

So what gives?

Wife & daughter have no interest in gear - so no bias - they don't have any knowledge or interest in what is making the noise.

Where can I see these things in measurements so that I can be better informed for the future? Am I just not understand the measurements well enough to determine what might account for these changes?

3e a7 sounds more powerful, and is better (differently) representing soundstage than my actually more powerful xtz edge.

Is it just that we have not determined measurements that tell the whole picture?

If the newer amps are more powerful, keeping the same volume setting on the pre-amp will mean the newer amps will play louder (if only a few dB), which will subjectively sound "better".

The only way to test the difference properly is to balance them for ACTUAL volume (in dBs) in the room. Even then, given your setup, it won't be "blind" and therefore will be subject to bias (e.g., the new amps SHOULD sound better ... ).

 

[Insearchofthedream]

The new amps are less powerful (on paper). Even when turning the xtz amp to a louder volume (notably louder than the a7 amps) - it still sounds different.

Given what I have read here & seen on youtube, my expectation was for the amps to not sound any different - so surprised that they do indeed sound different.

When wife & daughter are listening, they do not know which amp they are listening to. They don't know there are new amps / old amps.

Like I've said multiple times - I'm sure what I hear is in the measurements.

But where?

 

[Mort]

Like I've said multiple times - I'm sure what I hear is in the measurements.

You can keep saying it. But it's doubtful, honestly. I know that's not what you want to hear.