- Thread Starter
- #21
Maybe something like 30m2 ?
-
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Upgrade my system for better instruments separation
- Thread starter Berdri
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maty
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Klipsch Forte IV
[Hungarian] https://www.hifi-voice.com/testy-a-recenze/reprosoustavy-podlahove/3199-klipsch-forte-iv
You may have more problems but those loudspeakers are surely part of them. Either you improve them internally or you change them for others, investigating the purchase very well before.
Other Klipsch
Klipsch Heresy IV Speaker Review
www.audiosciencereview.com
-> 4th image: subjective review
[Hungarian] https://www.hifi-voice.com/testy-a-recenze/reprosoustavy-podlahove/3199-klipsch-forte-iv
You may have more problems but those loudspeakers are surely part of them. Either you improve them internally or you change them for others, investigating the purchase very well before.
Other Klipsch
Klipsch Heresy IV Speaker Review
Klipsch Heresy IV Speaker Review
As always, I am copying/pasting from my website directly here. Therefore, some tables, pictures, paragraphs may look odd here. If you want to read the review from my site here is the link: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/klipsch_heresy_iv/ Link to YouTube review: Klipsch...
www.audiosciencereview.com
-> 4th image: subjective review
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Elitzur–Vaidman
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Imo you should trade out your Klipsch for something by Revel. Or if you're willing to sell your amplifiers, get a pair of Genelecs with GLM and be done.
For beginners buy measuring microphone like UMIK-1 and learn basics of how to use it with REW. Then when you are able to see what's going on (along with all of us) we can talk what can be achieved. Ears are ears your or someone else's but graph (mic response) tells more than 1000 of words.
I have mixed feelings about those speakers (all around from resonances to crossovers and not in a good way).
After you try with digital PEQ then you can go with better speakers (supposed that ones you own are part of the problem), getting sub's and treating the room (including ISO 3382-1) which won't either be easy or cheap for the bass.Klipsch Forte III loudspeaker Measurements
Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Forte III's frequency response in the farfield and an Earthworks QTC-40 mike for the nearfield responses.www.stereophile.com
This would be my first port of call too.
Or buy a reasonably priced DSP room EQ unit like the miniDSP SHD Studio. The beauty of this, apart from its being super easy to use, is that next time you move house, you just run the process again and it adapts your system to the new room.
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Just to add to what has already been said:
1) Speakers- These are the obvious weak link in your system. As others have suggested, take a look at the offerings from Revel and KEF which are designed with smooth on and off axis responses to help control their interaction with the room in a more predicable manner.
2) Amplifier- The amp you have is a wonderful unit, but it is lacking something that is really important, the ability to perform room correction in the digital domain. Being able to perform room correction digitally makes a huge difference.
3) Room- You room makes a huge difference in how a system sounds. Obviously, right now, you have limited control over this. Looking down the road, depending on how much control you have over your living situation and how important audio remains, you may want to learn a bit about room modes so when looking for potential places to live, you can have an eye on what rooms will likely be better sounding.
And as far as cables, you better start believing in them. No cables, no power to your equipment. No cables, no way to get all those little electrons between components.
Well at least until they come out with bluetooth power connectors.
1) Speakers- These are the obvious weak link in your system. As others have suggested, take a look at the offerings from Revel and KEF which are designed with smooth on and off axis responses to help control their interaction with the room in a more predicable manner.
2) Amplifier- The amp you have is a wonderful unit, but it is lacking something that is really important, the ability to perform room correction in the digital domain. Being able to perform room correction digitally makes a huge difference.
3) Room- You room makes a huge difference in how a system sounds. Obviously, right now, you have limited control over this. Looking down the road, depending on how much control you have over your living situation and how important audio remains, you may want to learn a bit about room modes so when looking for potential places to live, you can have an eye on what rooms will likely be better sounding.
And as far as cables, you better start believing in them. No cables, no power to your equipment. No cables, no way to get all those little electrons between components.
Well at least until they come out with bluetooth power connectors.
Roon software offers DSP and EQ for $15/mo in the US, plus whole bunch of other fun features to manage your digital and streaming music collectionin a magazine format. You can try it for free.
If you can't or won't fix the room, it is up to you. That is 50% of the sound. The boxes in the box. I wouldn't get rid of the current gear and concentrate
on what you have. Any information on how the room measures is an inexpensive way to use passive material, like curtains or panels to calm the
room down. You can take them with you to the next place and save your money for something that actually works. Room treatment and speaker placement.
Your gear is fine. A few Helmholtz resonators for the peaks, you're sittin' in tall cotton.
Those speakers do a lot better "pulled into the room, not close to the back wall. It's also the point of first reflection for bass response. Gets some tape, a tape measure
and run some placement test. Treat the back wall, you'll really be surprised how much better the speakers will image. The source at that point is the key to
what you will hear. The speakers usually aren't the problem if they get close to full range and driven with enough headroom.
Vinyl is nice it teaches patience and offers a lot of sound options IF you're willing to tweak them out of a TT system. You don't have to spend a fortune, BUT you
have to pay attention to detail.
Digital vs Analog? For me it's Digital AND Analog. I listen to a transistor radio in the shop most of the time.
Regards
on what you have. Any information on how the room measures is an inexpensive way to use passive material, like curtains or panels to calm the
room down. You can take them with you to the next place and save your money for something that actually works. Room treatment and speaker placement.
Your gear is fine. A few Helmholtz resonators for the peaks, you're sittin' in tall cotton.
Those speakers do a lot better "pulled into the room, not close to the back wall. It's also the point of first reflection for bass response. Gets some tape, a tape measure
and run some placement test. Treat the back wall, you'll really be surprised how much better the speakers will image. The source at that point is the key to
what you will hear. The speakers usually aren't the problem if they get close to full range and driven with enough headroom.
Vinyl is nice it teaches patience and offers a lot of sound options IF you're willing to tweak them out of a TT system. You don't have to spend a fortune, BUT you
have to pay attention to detail.
Digital vs Analog? For me it's Digital AND Analog. I listen to a transistor radio in the shop most of the time.
Regards
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I'm guessing no room treatements is because you can't drill holes in walls to hang stuff in a semi-permanent manner? If you have the room for them, there are some good free standing options that can easily move and take with you. Considering how much you've spent on the other stuff, this isn't even really that expensive. Here are some options from GIK (I have been happy with their products):
Welcome to ASR! There are many good suggestions above like measuring the room and thinking about the speakers. Everything goes to your ears.
So I am going to go down a different track. Make a listening journal. "On _this specific recording, I am hearing _this with _these instruments." See as many live performances as you can with similar instrumentation in a good hall and take notes. See if there is a pattern with specific instruments across recordings and live performances. Also listen to live streaming broadcasts and journal those. Include respected headphones and IEM from the ASR high-rated ones in your listening journal of recordings. The recent Truthear ones are ridiculously inexpensive.
Orchestras have different musicians and conductors. Some orchestras deliberately create a very thick honey melded string sound. Listen to solo piano recitals. The piano is a great test of recording which most people can hear.
Compare your notes with the frequency response data on instruments I posted on another thread - https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/acoustical-characteristics-of-musical-instruments. Is there a common frequency range where you are hearing more mush, or does it vary by recording and live? Make friends with acoustic musicians as advisors to evaluate the same recordings and listening setup. A classically trained instrumentalist who plays in an orchestra or small group has a lot of years of listening experience. Make friends with classical music recording engineers.
Then take your room measurement data and see if there is a problem in that particular frequency range.
Post a drawing, photos and measurements of your room.
Then EQ your room and repeat your listening log in your improved room.
Some things you can do at low to no cost is move your listening position into nearfield of the speakers, treat the floor inexpensively with carpet laid on 2cm of jute fiber, not foam, carpet pad, and try to create a live end behind the speakers and dead end on the sides and back with acoustic absorbing material. A dead ceiling can be done in a studio, not a rental, but that would be a bonus.
There was a very good suggestion of visiting studios to listen to professional monitors. There are a small number of common brands: Focal, Amphion, ATC, Kii, Neumann, Dutch and Dutch, Dynaudio, Genelec, Quested, Barefoot - not really many more. The studio is going to have a better room than a hifi dealer. Some studios will have several monitors in one trip. Listen nearfield, midfield, even farfield. Understand the effect of soffit mounting in farfield - you can't do that in a rental. If you want to drop some money on an unknown, listen to the Present Day Production monitor at their demo which is soon in London? Buy a pair, and send them to AmirM for testing! Hey, send some ATC SCM25A for testing to end the debate!
You are off on a big adventure you should journal and even video to tell a story with hopefully a happy ending. Report back to ASR on your journey. Keep up participating in our forums.
So I am going to go down a different track. Make a listening journal. "On _this specific recording, I am hearing _this with _these instruments." See as many live performances as you can with similar instrumentation in a good hall and take notes. See if there is a pattern with specific instruments across recordings and live performances. Also listen to live streaming broadcasts and journal those. Include respected headphones and IEM from the ASR high-rated ones in your listening journal of recordings. The recent Truthear ones are ridiculously inexpensive.
Orchestras have different musicians and conductors. Some orchestras deliberately create a very thick honey melded string sound. Listen to solo piano recitals. The piano is a great test of recording which most people can hear.
Compare your notes with the frequency response data on instruments I posted on another thread - https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/acoustical-characteristics-of-musical-instruments. Is there a common frequency range where you are hearing more mush, or does it vary by recording and live? Make friends with acoustic musicians as advisors to evaluate the same recordings and listening setup. A classically trained instrumentalist who plays in an orchestra or small group has a lot of years of listening experience. Make friends with classical music recording engineers.
Then take your room measurement data and see if there is a problem in that particular frequency range.
Post a drawing, photos and measurements of your room.
Then EQ your room and repeat your listening log in your improved room.
Some things you can do at low to no cost is move your listening position into nearfield of the speakers, treat the floor inexpensively with carpet laid on 2cm of jute fiber, not foam, carpet pad, and try to create a live end behind the speakers and dead end on the sides and back with acoustic absorbing material. A dead ceiling can be done in a studio, not a rental, but that would be a bonus.
There was a very good suggestion of visiting studios to listen to professional monitors. There are a small number of common brands: Focal, Amphion, ATC, Kii, Neumann, Dutch and Dutch, Dynaudio, Genelec, Quested, Barefoot - not really many more. The studio is going to have a better room than a hifi dealer. Some studios will have several monitors in one trip. Listen nearfield, midfield, even farfield. Understand the effect of soffit mounting in farfield - you can't do that in a rental. If you want to drop some money on an unknown, listen to the Present Day Production monitor at their demo which is soon in London? Buy a pair, and send them to AmirM for testing! Hey, send some ATC SCM25A for testing to end the debate!
You are off on a big adventure you should journal and even video to tell a story with hopefully a happy ending. Report back to ASR on your journey. Keep up participating in our forums.
Last edited:
Philbo King
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Have you heard any music with the separation you want? If so, the problem isn't your system, it's the recording and how it's mixed.
If you want to check your system (in your room) try this. Old, but still good.
Online LEDR™ Sound Test | Listening Environment Diagnostic Recording Test
Audio Test Tones : check your stereo system for correct imaging
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Hi, I have a Topping Pre and would like to try a Clas D Purifi amplifier. Please advise what specific Class D Purifier amplifier or mono amplifiers I should get. Thanks in advance.
Please don’t! A better “quality” crossover will do absolutely nothing.Easy, the Klipsch Forte IV crossover
and internal improvements (furniture).
Cornwall IV
community.klipsch.com
Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!www.audiocircle.com
Plenty of good suggestions otherwise.
JeremyFife
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Hi and welcome
Plenty of advice for you, not all of it contradictory
You say you are likely to move around, so no room correction. That's cool. Difficult to choose new speakers just yet too, since you don't know what space you want to fill
The things that affect your sound are; the recording, then Room then Speakers and then Speaker/Room interaction.
However, this all starts with measuring and this is something that you can start working on now.
I'd agree with members here who suggest a measurement microphone (umik-1 is standard) and getting to grips with the software REW. This is your basic tool to understand what is going on with your sound and what needs to change.
Change would then be room correction (not yet), different speakers (probably not yet) or DSP ... and you could do that part now
My thoughts: measure, and get some way of adding DSP to your system. You can correct your current setup, and learn how to manage your next one.
Simplest method - use a laptop as streamer and apply software DSP
Alternative, something like a miniDSP Flex (replace your DAC)
Enjoy
Plenty of advice for you, not all of it contradictory
You say you are likely to move around, so no room correction. That's cool. Difficult to choose new speakers just yet too, since you don't know what space you want to fill
The things that affect your sound are; the recording, then Room then Speakers and then Speaker/Room interaction.
However, this all starts with measuring and this is something that you can start working on now.
I'd agree with members here who suggest a measurement microphone (umik-1 is standard) and getting to grips with the software REW. This is your basic tool to understand what is going on with your sound and what needs to change.
Change would then be room correction (not yet), different speakers (probably not yet) or DSP ... and you could do that part now
My thoughts: measure, and get some way of adding DSP to your system. You can correct your current setup, and learn how to manage your next one.
Simplest method - use a laptop as streamer and apply software DSP
Alternative, something like a miniDSP Flex (replace your DAC)
Enjoy
In general, with room correction we mean DSP room correction. Actual physical room treatment is out of the question. Although, if the OP can stomach some removable panels, that may still be an option.
JeremyFife
Addicted to Fun and Learning
just NOEasy, the Klipsch Forte IV crossover
and internal improvements (furniture).
Cornwall IV
community.klipsch.com
Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!www.audiocircle.com
JeremyFife
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Agree. OP said 'room treatment' that's what I meant (and didn't say). DSP room correction is a great idea
