Upgrade from Schiit Stack? (Modi+Magni)

[Rayman30]

This is my first post, but I have upgraditus and am wondering where a good starting point would be.

My setup

Schiit Magni 3 + Modi 3 using SPDIF (Schiit Stack)
Swan M200 MK3+ speakers
Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones
HiFi Man H4XX

I keep thinking maybe the DAC is holding me back? I am thinking about getting a Dark Voice Tube amp, but would the Modi 3 being holding me back in this scenario? or should I focus other aspects of my setup?

I was eye balling the Topping D50S, my goal is sound quality.

Thanks!

 

[threni]

I keep thinking maybe the DAC is holding me back?

Maybe it's possible to do some sort of test of this vs another DAC and see if you can tell the difference. If you can't then you're just wasting your money. DACs are much of a muchness.

 

[Anonimar]

Your headphones are by far the weakest part of the chain. DACs are typically regarded as the 'final 5%' of the audio chain.

 

[Rayman30]

Your headphones are by far the weakest part of the chain. DACs are typically regarded as the 'final 5%' of the audio chain.

Thoughts on the Darkvoice tube amp?

 

[solderdude]

Magni 3 is a transparent amplifier, the DV is an effectbox.
Some like effect boxes others don't.
For you there is only 1 way to find out and that is to audition or buy.

 

[Anonimar]

Thoughts on the Darkvoice tube amp?

Like Solderdude mentioned, a fitting term for the Darkvoice is 'effect box'. You buy it if you want to intentional color your sound with warm tubey distortion. Whether you like that will be highly subjective.

If I was in your shoes, I'd personally be saving up for a big boy headphone (i.e. HD800, Focal Clear or Elex, ZMF, LCD-X, higher end Hifiman, etc.)

 

[CDMC]

Thoughts on the Darkvoice tube amp?

Did not look good on the measurements. If you want warm and tubey, the Schiit Vali 2 does it for $149. The big question is what do you define as "good sound quality"? Do you want the most accurate sound possible, warmer than accurate, cooler than accurate? What don't you like about your current setup? Answering those things will help people point you in a direction.

As far as your DAC, no it is not holding you back.

 

[Rayman30]

Did not look good on the measurements. If you want warm and tubey, the Schiit Vali 2 does it for $149. The big question is what do you define as "good sound quality"? Do you want the most accurate sound possible, warmer than accurate, cooler than accurate? What don't you like about your current setup? Answering those things will help people point you in a direction.

As far as your DAC, no it is not holding you back.

I suppose I just want to turn on my setup, and go WoW! so I am chasing the wow factor, but maybe I don't know what that is yet. I enjoy my current setup, and while its impressive and I have said WoW while listening to music before, I just want as good as I can get. I am trying to be reasonable about it, understanding the law of diminishing returns may be approaching fast.

I follow Z Reviews on Youtube, he said the Vali 2 was not quite "tube enough" which makes me wonder, how similar does tubes sound to a vinyl record player? seems to be distortion and warmth are hallmark features of vinyl, what are your thoughts on this?

 

[amirm]

I follow Z Reviews on Youtube, he said the Vali 2 was not quite "tube enough" which makes me wonder, how similar does tubes sound to a vinyl record player? seems to be distortion and warmth are hallmark features of vinyl, what are your thoughts on this?

There is no such thing unless you are good at imagination and keep imagining. Distortion actually causes the highs to be accentuated and muddies low level detail. Tube amps do have very high output voltage so if you are coming from a weak amplifier, you may thing they sound great.

On your list, the DAC is a good one. No need to replace. The amp could be bettered with JDS Labs Atom at $99 but you may not notice the difference.

 

[Schackmannen]

If you want to try a tube amp don't get the Darkvoice at least, I own one and it's a piece of junk. If you can do a bit of soldering the Bottlehead Crack seems like a way better option.

 

[Rayman30]

If you want to try a tube amp don't get the Darkvoice at least, I own one and it's a piece of junk. If you can do a bit of soldering the Bottlehead Crack seems like a way better option.

Maybe the Schiit Valhalla would be higher quality? also matches my current setup. Does anyone have any experience with this product?

 

[majingotan]

Maybe the Schiit Valhalla would be higher quality? also matches my current setup. Does anyone have any experience with this product?

The Valhalla 1 will surely have that distortion effect that you want with tubes https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-schiit-valhalla-amp.8273/

As you can see on my signature, I use the far better measuring Schiit Saga on tube mode instead which gives about ~0.0015% THD+N and 0.00009% THD+N on passive mode. Not only I get that tube sound, I also don't compromise the sound by additional noise and distortion level as evident by good measurements on tube mode.

 

[Rayman30]

The Valhalla 1 will surely have that distortion effect that you want with tubes https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-schiit-valhalla-amp.8273/

That's quite scathing lol, yeah maybe an upgraded Solid State amp would be best, any recommendations for an amp less than $300 that would whoop the Magni 3, El Dac2?

I wonder how the JDS Labs Element 2 would compare as far as output power goes.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to assist me on this.

 

[Hugo9000]

That's quite scathing lol, yeah maybe an upgraded Solid State amp would be best, any recommendations for an amp less than $300 that would whoop the Magni 3, El Dac2?

I wonder how the JDS Labs Element 2 would compare as far as output power goes.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to assist me on this.

@T.M.Noble from Schiit Audio has the new Magni 3+ and Magni Heresy on their way to Amir for testing, you might want to wait for those results, perhaps?

 

[astr0b0y]

I’d focus on changing speakers and headphones as these will make biggest difference. What is your budget?

 

[Rayman30]

I’d focus on changing speakers and headphones as these will make biggest difference. What is your budget?

Love the speakers! perfect size for my desk, its the headphone part I am focused on, budget is around $250 but can stretch to $500. Maybe a more powerful amp? Id like to stick with Schiit, but all the upgraded amps are Tube based.

 

[Blur]

I also own a Schiit stack ( Magni 3 / Bifrost 4490 ) and looking at your gear I'm thinking the best route is to change the headphones. The funny thing about Upgrade-itus is it is often a cause of getting used to ones own equipment. This is quite natural as our brains find great appeal in listening to something new and then as it applies its own filters and finally becomes accustomed to the sound it becomes bored. I have had this happen many times and the best cure is just taking a break from your setup or at the very least changing your playlist entirely for a few weeks. Coming back to your hi-fi tracks after those few weeks will make them sound amazing again. No need for a major purchase unless you want a different experience such as changing out your headphones.

Your budget will determine how far you want to go. The cheapest option is to spend some money on new music, but if you really want a change you can purchase something like the MrSpeakers Aeon Flow headphone and get a nice change from your current setup. The open or closed version both sound very nice and engaging, but will have some similarities to the HE-4xx you already have.

That's my advice having been down this road many-o-time.

 

[Martin]

When I switched out my Sennheiser HD598 with Beyerdynamic DT1990 I said, "WOW!" The DT1990 are $399 refurbished direct from Beyerdynamic-usa on Ebay. I cannot distinguish mine from new. I am also a vinyl and tube fan.

Here is a nice review of the headphones: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-a-i/dt-1990-pro/

Martin

 

[Ratatoskr]

HD650 are pretty darn good phones. If you like Senns perhaps save up and buy a used pair of HD800S on Head-Fi. Probably the last pair of phones you would need to buy unless you get into exotics like RAAL-requisite SR1a's. As always, if you can find a store where you can audition first before you buy do so. Have fun!

 

[Rayman30]

When I switched out my Sennheiser HD598 with Beyerdynamic DT1990 I said, "WOW!" The DT1990 are $399 refurbished direct from Beyerdynamic-usa on Ebay. I cannot distinguish mine from new. I am also a vinyl and tube fan.

Here is a nice review of the headphones: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-a-i/dt-1990-pro/

Martin

I have tried the DT990, and the treble was much to much for my tastes, I thought they sounded bright on darker tracks, and insufferable on brighter tracks. Are the DT1990 toned down in this regard? (No pun intended)