Upgrade Elac DBR62 to floorstander.

[Bernard23]

As good as the DBR62s are they're a bit small in my room, and I have to use a sub to gain any sensation of sub bass, but it's limited as I'm using a wharfedale SW 150 sub which is pretty much finished by 30Hz.

Considering a pair of floor standers, polk R500 or even the 600 on some good deals at the moment, pretty sure I've read positive comments about them in comparison to the Elacs.
Anything else to consider around £700 (don't mind buying slightly used)?

 

[staticV3]

Anything else to consider around £700 (don't mind buying slightly used)?

that's per speaker, right? Not per pair

 

[Bernard23]

Ah, good question - a quick search for online retailers shows images of a pair, but not so sure that's how they sell them. Needs investigation, but either way I'm reluctant to spend much more unless the gains are worth it.

 

[staticV3]

check out Erin's comparison of the R500, DF63, and Emotiva XT2: https://youtu.be/12Wp14YYTSU?t=530

 

[Bernard23]

that's per speaker, right? Not per pair

Couple of used R600 around that price used for a pair, so yes.

 

[Bernard23]

check out Erin's comparison of the R500, DF63, and Emotiva XT2: https://youtu.be/12Wp14YYTSU?t=530

Thanks - unfortunately the XT2s are not readily available in the UK, and none used that I could find after a quick initial search.

 

[Chromatischism]

I recommend a better sub.

 

[Bernard23]

I recommend a better sub.

That's something I'm considering, but as a second question (that requires a whole different set of research and requirements, ideally I don't want to use a sub because it's another box to fit into the room)

 

[Chromatischism]

If you want speakers that can truly stand on their own without a subwoofer (unaddressed room modes notwithstanding), you will get into a higher price range. Think Ascend Sierra ELX Tower with the dome tweeter.

But there are some standmounts that get close in a small room. When I had the Buchardt S400 MK1, it extended to 33 Hz in my room, and was -6 dB at 25 Hz. With Audyssey's Dynamic EQ, it gave a wonderful deep bass rumble as long as you didn't ask 90+ dB of it.

 

[Bernard23]

If you want speakers that can truly stand on their own without a subwoofer (unaddressed room modes notwithstanding), you will get into higher price range. Think Ascend Sierra ELX Tower with the dome tweeter.

But there are some standmounts that get close in a small room. When I had the Buchardt S400 MK1, it extended to 33 Hz in my room, and was -6 dB at 25 Hz. With Audyssey's Dynamic EQ, it gave a wonderful deep bass rumble as long as you didn't ask 90+ dB of it.

Interesting. There's the problem, I need 85dB at 40Hz as a minimum. I used to own a JL Audio E110 sub that just about managed it, but it was a pita to set up and fit in domestically.

 

[Bernard23]

I recommend a better sub.

Am about to jump into that rabbit hole. Which direction. Budget £700 finest British pounds

 

[dtaylo1066]

Here, spinorama.org and Erin's site. Best places to start.

 

[staticV3]

Here, spinorama.org and Erin's site. Best places to start.

Spinorama doesn't list Subs.

@Bernard23
The master list for subwoofers can be found here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/subwoofer-comparison.20494/

You can filter by size, price, production status etc, then sort by SPL at 30Hz or so to see which subs are truly capable.

OTOH, ASR member Nuyes did a measurement shootout with 10 different subs, which showed that there is more to subwoofer performance than just raw SPL capability:

I measured 10 subwoofers.

Hi, it's been a while! I would like to thank the people who made this project possible on a scale never before imagined in South Korea. I measured a total of 10 subwoofers, including my own DIY subwoofer(L26RO4Y), and measured them to the CEA-2010 standard using a Klippel TBM module. Below are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

One Sub that can push high SPL and performs excellently everywhere else is the 1961 1S, which is however 20% over budget at £870..

 

[Bernard23]

Spinorama doesn't list Subs.

@Bernard23
The master list for subwoofers can be found here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/subwoofer-comparison.20494/

You can filter by size, price, production status etc, then sort by SPL at 30Hz or so to see which subs are truly capable.

OTOH, ASR member Nuyes did a measurement shootout with 10 different subs, which showed that there is more to subwoofer performance than just raw SPL capability:

I measured 10 subwoofers.

Hi, it's been a while! I would like to thank the people who made this project possible on a scale never before imagined in South Korea. I measured a total of 10 subwoofers, including my own DIY subwoofer(L26RO4Y), and measured them to the CEA-2010 standard using a Klippel TBM module. Below are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

One Sub that can push high SPL and performs excellently everywhere else is the 1961 1S, which is however 20% over budget at £870..

Arendal 1961 1S Powered Subwoofer

Arendal 1961 1S

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

He wasn't overly thrilled by it?

 

[Bernard23]

Well this is an interesting rabbit hole. I can get a 1723 1V used for the price of the 1961 1S. That sounds more like the solution for me, but are the Elacs up to it? I might have fixed the sub bass but perhaps a speaker upgrade has more broader and ultimately more useful improvements.
Maybe I should stop thinking about it, and spend the cash on a Class 50 driving experience instead....

 

[dtaylo1066]

Spinorama doesn't list Subs.

@Bernard23
The master list for subwoofers can be found here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/subwoofer-comparison.20494/

You can filter by size, price, production status etc, then sort by SPL at 30Hz or so to see which subs are truly capable.

OTOH, ASR member Nuyes did a measurement shootout with 10 different subs, which showed that there is more to subwoofer performance than just raw SPL capability:

I measured 10 subwoofers.

Hi, it's been a while! I would like to thank the people who made this project possible on a scale never before imagined in South Korea. I measured a total of 10 subwoofers, including my own DIY subwoofer(L26RO4Y), and measured them to the CEA-2010 standard using a Klippel TBM module. Below are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

One Sub that can push high SPL and performs excellently everywhere else is the 1961 1S, which is however 20% over budget at £870..

No, it does not, maybe I misread but I thought he was looking to upgrade to floorstanding speaker, not upgrade a sub.

 

[Chromatischism]

I can get a 1723 1V

Looking at the specs, we have a 109 lb sub with a 13.8" driver, roughly 24x18x22 inches, ported, retailing for $2200 USD. 800-watt amp, lowest extension mode results in 17 Hz +/- 3 dB. I always recommend the lowest extension mode for sound quality.

Specs-wise it may be roughly comparable to an HSU VTF-3 MK5. Anyone else agree? I personally wouldn't buy Arendal subs because of how expensive they are, but they seem nicely made.

but are the Elacs up to it?

Of course.

perhaps a speaker upgrade has more broader and ultimately more useful improvements

There are always improvements to be made as you climb the speaker ladder. But at least with the ELACs you already nailed the bang for the buck, so it's a steeper hill to climb. I would say between dropping $1-1.5k on a sub vs $1-1.5k on a speaker upgrade, I would say the sub will get you a more noticeable improvement if you can nail down the placement and EQ to get the most out of it.

And I speak from experience. I had the tower version of your speakers in for testing against the Buchardts, and while the Buchardts were the more enjoyable listen, with the Rythmiks on, I can't imagine that someone who didn't know the difference wouldn't be satisfied. The DBR/DFR are really good, though bass is limited from them.

So to be worth it, I think you'd need to be at the Ascend Sierra-2EX V2, Buchardt S400 MK2, KEF R3 Meta, Ascilab C6B level of speaker for it to be really worth it. I wouldn't bother with any speaker in between those and what you have now.

 

[Bernard23]

Looking at the specs, we have a 109 lb sub with a 13.8" driver, roughly 24x18x22 inches, ported, retailing for $2200 USD. 800-watt amp, lowest extension mode results in 17 Hz +/- 3 dB. I always recommend the lowest extension mode for sound quality.

Specs-wise it may be roughly comparable to an HSU VTF-3 MK5. Anyone else agree? I personally wouldn't buy Arendal subs because of how expensive they are, but they seem nicely made.


Of course.


There are always improvements to be made as you climb the speaker ladder. But at least with the ELACs you already nailed the bang for the buck, so it's a steeper hill to climb. I would say between dropping $1-1.5k on a sub vs $1-1.5k on a speaker upgrade, I would say the sub will get you a more noticeable improvement if you can nail down the placement and EQ to get the most out of it.

And I speak from experience. I had the tower version of your speakers in for testing against the Buchardts, and while the Buchardts were the more enjoyable listen, with the Rythmiks on, I can't imagine that someone who didn't know the difference wouldn't be satisfied. The DBR/DFR are really good, though bass is limited from them.

So to be worth it, I think you'd need to be at the Ascend Sierra-2EX V2, Buchardt S400 MK2, KEF R3 Meta, Ascilab C6B level of speaker for it to be really worth it. I wouldn't bother with any speaker in between those and what you have now.

OK, thanks for the advice, it's appreciated. Tbh having watched Erin's review of the DBR62s I came to the same conclusion.

The Arendel is used, but I think more research into a better sub is the way forwards.

 

[Bernard23]

Specs-wise it may be roughly comparable to an HSU VTF-3 MK5.

I'm trying to price one to the UK. It's offering shipping to UK but not when you click through to the basket. I'm guessing that even if they do ship to the UK it won't be cheap. Shame as it looks a, great option

 

[Chromatischism]

When I hear UK I think of B&K. Have you checked them out? I'm not familiar with their current offerings.

There is also XTZ from Sweden.