Upgrade / Comparisons? Ascend Sierra RAAL Towers / Revel F226Be / F228Be

[RMW_NJ]

Also, remember the Sierra 2 EX actually use the different 64-10 RAAL and will sound different than the one used in the towers but it's actually wider dispersion and they do measure a bit on the bright side which might be what you prefer.

Dave actually offers an unadvertised version of the 2EX that uses the 70-20XR. Not sure of the price difference, but might be worth it for the lower distortion and ability to cross lower.

 

[PNWer]

It's difficult to explain, but I wouldn't say that the Revels were either brighter or warmer in the traditional usage of the terms. I think the ribbon tweeters throw a bit of a wrench into the typical adjectives that often get thrown around during speaker comparisons. If both used domes it would likely be easier to label one or the other as brighter or warmer. I do consider the RAALs to be laid back. I wouldn't describe the Revels that way, exactly. This probably sounds counterintuitive to the Sierras having more detailed highs, but it's not simply because the highs had more energy behind them or that the mids / lows were always recessed exactly. It's almost as if they are softer and smoother but at the same time more detailed and crisper. Perhaps that's the "magical" quality that they are often tagged with possessing. Now we're getting super scientific!



I agree. Had this been a more traditional "which speaker is better" type of shootout that would have been the way to go. Time contraints compelled me to dedicate my efforts and energy into determining which speaker was better in my room with my setup. Ideally I'd have also EQ'd both sets of towers, but I can only load one profile into my receiver, and it takes nearly a minute swap in a different one. That's simply too great a length of time to pass in between listens. Additionally, I played several tracks multiple times between each set of speakers to confirm what I was (or wasn't hearing) from one or the other, making EQ'ing even more impractical.

I have Philharmonic BMR and Slims,both used with Rythmik sub. However recent addition of BMR Towers provides additional enjoyment.
All used the same RAAL tweeter and BMR mids, but Towers ScanSpeak 8" make more impact.
Piano music attacks give more live music feel.

 

[MDINNO]

How would the NHT C4 compare with these two speakers?

 

[bkdc]

Which speaker are you keeping?

This is the exact choice I am considering -- keeping Ascend Sierra RAAL towers or considering the Revel F226Be. But since I'm running dual SVS SB3000 subwoofers, I wonder if the low end performance and slam of having subwoofers will cover up the Ascend's deficiencies in the lower mid-range. The sparkling highs of the Ascend with female vocals and string instruments really are hard to beat. I don't play my speakers at volumes loud enough to result in tweeter distortion.

 

[mj30250]

Which speaker are you keeping?

This is the exact choice I am considering -- keeping Ascend Sierra RAAL towers or considering the Revel F226Be. But since I'm running dual SVS SB3000 subwoofers, I wonder if the low end performance and slam of having subwoofers will cover up the Ascend's deficiencies in the lower mid-range. The sparkling highs of the Ascend with female vocals and string instruments really are hard to beat. I don't play my speakers at volumes loud enough to result in tweeter distortion.

I still have both, but the F226Bes ousted the Sierra towers from my main setup. They are simply better composed and offer a fuller sound with certain types of music.

However, keep in mind that Dave at Ascend now has a Klippel NFS in-house which was used to help upgrade the Luna / Duo and design the brand new LX bookshelf speaker. Unless you're in a rush, I'd be inclined to sit tight and see what else might be appearing in the not-to-distant future.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I still have both, but the F226Bes ousted the Sierra towers from my main setup. They are simply better composed and offer a fuller sound with certain types of music.

However, keep in mind that Dave at Ascend now has a Klippel NFS in-house which was used to help upgrade the Luna / Duo and design the brand new LX bookshelf speaker. Unless you're in a rush, I'd be inclined to sit tight and see what else might be appearing in the not-to-distant future.

Gee, Dave now has a Klippel. Wonder whyyyyy?????

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Which speaker are you keeping?

This is the exact choice I am considering -- keeping Ascend Sierra RAAL towers or considering the Revel F226Be. But since I'm running dual SVS SB3000 subwoofers, I wonder if the low end performance and slam of having subwoofers will cover up the Ascend's deficiencies in the lower mid-range. The sparkling highs of the Ascend with female vocals and string instruments really are hard to beat. I don't play my speakers at volumes loud enough to result in tweeter distortion.

Keep the distorted sparkles. Ear fatigue unless distortion avoided at low volume.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

How would the NHT C4 compare with these two speakers?

NHT lost it years ago.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

It's difficult to explain, but I wouldn't say that the Revels were either brighter or warmer in the traditional usage of the terms. I think the ribbon tweeters throw a bit of a wrench into the typical adjectives that often get tossed around during speaker comparisons. If both used domes it would likely be easier to label one or the other as brighter or warmer. I do consider the RAALs to be laid back. I wouldn't describe the Revels that way, exactly. This probably sounds counterintuitive to the Sierras having more detailed highs, but it's not simply because the highs had more energy behind them or that the mids / lows were always recessed exactly. It's almost as if they are softer and smoother but at the same time more detailed and crisper. Perhaps that's the "magical" quality that they are often tagged with possessing. Now we're getting super scientific!



I agree. Had this been a more traditional "which speaker is better" type of shootout that would have been the way to go. Time contraints compelled me to dedicate my efforts and energy into determining which speaker was better in my room with my setup. Ideally I'd have also EQ'd both sets of towers, but I can only load one profile into my receiver, and it takes nearly a minute swap in a different one. That's simply too great a length of time to pass in between listens. Additionally, I played several tracks multiple times between each set of speakers to confirm what I was (or wasn't hearing) from one or the other, making EQ'ing even more impractical.

Ribbon tweeters are niche for a reason.

 

[hdkeith]

This is my biggest concern. Those ribbons are just so good. The midrange on the Sierras is excellent as well. It's that mid to upper bass region where I feel things sound a bit on the thin side. If these darn Revels would ship already I could put this to bed pretty soon!

I wonder if this is due to the small drivers?

 

[hdkeith]

Looking forward to read your impressions. I personally own a full set of Ascend Acoustics Sierra speakers, including Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s and Sierra Lunas. Also own Revel M106s, M105s and C205. Also owned Revel M126Be for a short period to compare with the Sierra Towers. To my ears, the Sierra Towers wins compared to the M126Be. The Sierra Towers high end is definitely more detailed. I also run my Sierra Towers crossed over at 80Hz as a pair of Rythmik Audio G22s subwoofers take care of the low ends. But definitely I would like to read your impressions because if I do upgrade my Sierra Towers w/RAAL it would be with Revel PerformaBe speakers. But for me, I don’t think it would be an upgrade and more like a lateral move.

How loud can the Sierra Towers get? My concern coming form towers with 8 inch drivers going to dual 5.25” drivers the low end may be weak for me.

 

[mj30250]

I wonder if this is due to the small drivers?

Maybe partially. It's likely more due to the design of the drivers and the overall speaker system versus simply the size of the bass woofers alone. Of course, as your volume and distance from the speakers increase, physics will eventually drop a hard stop on you, at which point you will need additional displacement.

How loud can the Sierra Towers get? My concern coming form towers with 8 inch drivers going to dual 5.25” drivers the low end may be weak for me.

That depends on how you are defining "the low end", and again, how far you will be sitting as well as how your room interacts with those frequencies. As I mentioned in a few posts, it was the mid-upper bass region where I thought the Sierra towers were a bit leaner than I'd like. At an 8' listening distance, the speakers stayed clean and composed at the most loud I'd ever listen which would be around 90dB average with dynamic peaks of over 105dB. I also use an 80Hz crossover w/ dual 15" subs to cover what I consider to be the low end.

Also as mentioned earlier, Ascend is now using a Klippel NFS to aid in speaker design / upgrades. If you have your eyes on the towers and are concerned with low end performance, hang in there.

 

[hdkeith]

Thanks

Maybe partially. It's likely more due to the design of the drivers and the overall speaker system versus simply the size of the bass woofers alone. Of course, as your volume and distance from the speakers increase, physics will eventually drop a hard stop on you, at which point you will need additional displacement.

That depends on how you are defining "the low end", and again, how far you will be sitting as well as how your room interacts with those frequencies. As I mentioned in a few posts, it was the mid-upper bass region where I though the Sierra towers were a bit leaner than I'd like. At an 8' listening distance, the speakers stayed clean and composed at the most loud I'd ever listen which would be around 90dB average with dynamics peaks of over 105dB. I also use an 80Hz crossover w/ dual 15" subs to cover what I consider to be the low end.

Also as mentioned earlier, Ascend is now using a Klippel NFS to aid in speaker design / upgrades. If you have your eyes on the towers and are concerned with low end performance, hang in there.

Thanks. Curious when they may release something, I have a nasty itch I am trying to scratch right now. My room is 18'x15'x8' and I it about 14 feet from front of speakers. Small doorway left of listening potions, otherwise all enclosed. It is not unactual for me to be listening in the 90-95db range with many part breaking through 100db. My Monolith 9X arrives this week, next up is a speaker decision.

 

[mj30250]

Thanks


Thanks. Curious when they may release something, I have a nasty itch I am trying to scratch right now. My room is 18'x15'x8' and I it about 14 feet from front of speakers. Small doorway left of listening potions, otherwise all enclosed. It is not unactual for me to be listening in the 90-95db range with many part breaking through 100db. My Monolith 9X arrives this week, next up is a speaker decision.

That's a decent distance, but as long as you are using subs, you might be alright.

Here are 96dB distortion measurements taken by Amir for the Horizon center speaker, which uses the same drivers as the RAAL towers:

This is pretty respectable until you start getting into the lower bass. Of course with the towers you'll be using two speakers and will gain a little headroom.

Based on the distortion performance of the woofers in Ascend's new LX bookshelf speaker, one could reasonably predict a significant distortion drop if those bass woofers were used in an upgraded tower. If you're looking to make a move soon, Ascend also has a history of offering upgrade kits for their existing speakers as they rarely change cabinets. You could always grab a pair of towers now and see how they perform for you, with a good chance of there being an upgrade available sometime in the future. Obviously, as nothing has been announced yet, I have no idea what would net out to be the lower cost option between that route and just buying upgraded towers outright.

 

[hdkeith]

Thanks, I do have sub and I cross over all my surrounds at 100-12Hz and then my center at 100 and my LR at 40, but I do run my subs as mains+LFE kicking in at 120Hz, so no issue me just crossing over fronts at 80 or 100Hx to help beef up the loud on the towers. As an experiment yesterday I ran 2ch music without my subs and was very impressed how low and deep my Klipsch RP-280F got. I have always assumed they could not keep up that low and needed the subs to perform, I was wrong. Of course the subs have better impact and are much tighter and cleaner.

 

[hdkeith]

I have both the Sierra Towers with RAAL and the Revel F328Be. The F328Be replaced my Sierra Towers in the theatre and the Sierra Towers are now in another room for light stereo use. I don't think you can go wrong with either speaker. I would cross the Sierra Tower at 90Hz with dual HSU15" subs or the Revel F328Be at 80Hz. Both sound great, the only real difference is the F328Be offers amazing dynamics and authority a bit easier than the Sierra Towers. Displacement matters. But to be honest, the 24x28' room sounded great with either speaker. Sometimes upgrade fever gets us buying more than we really need just because we want to hear it. Truth is even today I enjoy listening to either speaker.

Thanks, I agree size matters. I have bene auditioning some Monitor Audio Gold 200/300 and the difference going form dual 8 inch drivers to dual 6 inch drivers is obvious. I get hung up on size (sure what guy doesn't ) and have always had 8 inch drivers in my mains. Actually still looking at Arendale 1723 Tower/Monitor becasue of the 8 inch mains and their stellar reviews.

 

[hdkeith]

True, but you can only get so much low impact from a smaller driver. If they release the LX in a tower I might jump on that.

 

[spamilton]

I know this thread is a bit old, but I wanted to thank everyone for these comparisons. I have the Sierra RAAL towers, and I am getting upgradeitis and was leaning heavily towards the 226be, but it seems it may be a bit of a waste. I've been through about 5 pairs of towers, and these are the most perfect yet.

The main problem I have been having is hearing dialogue in some movies. The clarity is there, but it always feels like dialogue gets lost in the mix. So I turn it up, then the music and sound effects are blasting (even with the lower dynamic range setting on my receiver). I attributed this (maybe incorrectly) to the wide disperson, but I know most of the dialogue is coming from the mid driver, so the biggest problem may just be my untreated open living room and my farther than average seating distance. I know it has to do with the way a lot of movies are mixed as well, but I still feel like I may be able to do better. Any center channel I have tried only makes things sound worse/boxy. I have been itching to try the Horizon, but as you all know, it's difficult to fit this into a clean cabinet setup without breaking out a saw.

My other option is a more narrow dispersion speaker like the JBL HDI series. That may help with the seating distance and possible wall reflection issues, but I'd be sacrificing overall sound quality and the enveloping aspect.

Thanks for any further input you guys may have.

 

[FrantzM]

I know this thread is a bit old, but I wanted to thank everyone for these comparisons. I have the Sierra RAAL towers, and I am getting upgradeitis and was leaning heavily towards the 226be, but it seems it may be a bit of a waste. I've been through about 5 pairs of towers, and these are the most perfect yet.

The main problem I have been having is hearing dialogue in some movies. The clarity is there, but it always feels like dialogue gets lost in the mix. So I turn it up, then the music and sound effects are blasting (even with the lower dynamic range setting on my receiver). I attributed this (maybe incorrectly) to the wide disperson, but I know most of the dialogue is coming from the mid driver, so the biggest problem may just be my untreated open living room and my farther than average seating distance. I know it has to do with the way a lot of movies are mixed as well, but I still feel like I may be able to do better. Any center channel I have tried only makes things sound worse/boxy. I have been itching to try the Horizon, but as you all know, it's difficult to fit this into a clean cabinet setup without breaking out a saw.

My other option is a more narrow dispersion speaker like the JBL HDI series. That may help with the seating distance and possible wall reflection issues, but I'd be sacrificing overall sound quality and the enveloping aspect.

Thanks for any further input you guys may have.

I wouldn't accuse the room or the speakers for the dialogues issue. It is prevalent and well known: Dialogues are not mixed at the proper level in most movies. Others and I have the same issue, in my case to the extent that, I turn on subtitles in every movies, I watch in my system. Many here at ASR have lamented and complained about this state of affairs. The same in movie theaters by the way... You'd change your speakers and the results will be the same..

Peace.

 

[spamilton]

You'd change your speakers and the results will be the same..

Haha yes. The never-ending cycle. How I wish there was a channel only for dialogue... Thank you for saving me some money.