Upgrade advice

[ex audiophile]

Like some others I did not enjoy headphone listening nearly to the extent of speakers. And although I still much prefer speakers I purchased a pair of 660S and the DX7Pro and the combo is really enjoyable. I wouldn't bother with headphones at all except that my wife does not see the point of 80+db listening

My source is Spotify via Node 2i, digital out. Hell, even the Bluetooth route in the DX7Pro sounds great. But I digress, of course now that I like this setup I want to make it better and would appreciate advice/experience of others here. I can:

Buy the DAC3B/HPA4 combo and/or
Buy better headphones e.g. Senn 800S or other?
Although budget is not limiting the above options are a lot of $$ for what I suspect will be little gain. Worth it?

My bias is that the better (or just different?) headphones would be the most bang for the buck. The DX7Pro performs so well in Amir's testing that I doubt I could hear a difference compared to the HPA4, but of course I want one just because

 

[Tigi]

Hi Bombadil. If you are not fully satisfied with the current sound of your headphones, replacing the headphones is definitely a more efficient way than replacing the DAC and/or amplifier. But the question is whether you will perceive HD800 as better cans for your favorite music. You need to try them first.

 

[flipflop]

None of the options you listed will give a significant audible improvement.
Instead of throwing money at the problem, I suggest equalizing your headphones:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4isno09gt20ozf/Sennheiser HD660S.pdf
https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo
https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension

 

[ex audiophile]

Hi Bombadil. If you are not fully satisfied with the current sound of your headphones, replacing the headphones is definitely a more efficient way than replacing the DAC and/or amplifier. But the question is whether you will perceive HD800 as better cans for your favorite music. You need to try them first.

Thanks, yes that would be ideal.

None of the options you listed will give a significant audible improvement.
Instead of throwing money at the problem, I suggest equalizing your headphones:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4isno09gt20ozf/Sennheiser HD660S.pdf
https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo
https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension

Thanks, good suggestion. I've found eq in general to be difficult to do. I'll look at the links you included, very kind of you.

 

[Cortes]

For the price DAC3B/HPA4 I would purchase the Focal Utopia or Stellia, and for sure you'll have the highest real upgrade that money can bring you. When I say Utopia/Stellia, put the Mezze, SR009 or similar (although the amp market for electrostatics is ugly). These hp will even have resale value in some years ahead, in opposition to electronics.

I agree with the suggestion above. Nothing can give you a new sound and an upgrade as a change of headphones. It's like changing speakers. Normal-cheap dac/amp with great headphones will give you more satisfaction than wonderfull electronics coupled with good heaphones.

 

[brachypelma44]

My source is Spotify

The single biggest way to improve sound quality in your situation is to drop Spotify, and get FLAC files to listen to instead. Much cheaper than buying new equipment, too.

 

[dougi]

The single biggest way to improve sound quality in your situation is to drop Spotify, and get FLAC files to listen to instead. Much cheaper than buying new equipment, too.

I disagree. A barely perceptible (if at all) change in codec is outweighed by improvements in linear or non-linear distortions by eq'ing or changing the headphones.

 

[Cortes]

The single biggest way to improve sound quality in your situation is to drop Spotify, and get FLAC files to listen to instead. Much cheaper than buying new equipment, too.

Show us that's true with facts, passing this test with 20 trials. Personally I've no passed it with Gelenecs 8331s and hp Stax SR007mkII in the noisy conditions of my office.

http://abx.digitalfeed.net/

 

[ex audiophile]

The single biggest way to improve sound quality in your situation is to drop Spotify, and get FLAC files to listen to instead. Much cheaper than buying new equipment, too.

With all respect I've been there, subscribed to Qobuz and Tidal, and perhaps it's my age but many hours of trying has shown me I cannot tell the difference, even on very nice speakers (228be).

 

[brachypelma44]

I disagree. A barely perceptible (if at all) change in codec .

I guess that's where we disagree. Can you generally hear the difference between mp3 320 and FLAC? That's pretty much the gap here.

 

[dougi]

I guess that's where we disagree. Can you generally hear the difference between mp3 320 and FLAC? That's pretty much the gap here.

No I can't and that is the point of the design of lossy codecs, in that they are designed around psycho-acoustics so that the vast majority of persons shouldn't hear a difference, bit rate dependant of course. Which is not to say no one can tell the difference.

 

[Sukie]

I guess that's where we disagree. Can you hear the difference between mp3 320 and FLAC? That's pretty much the gap here.

To establish that you can hear a difference, a difference that does not originate in cognitive bias, you would need to conduct a controlled double blind test.

Back to the OP's question: if you're happy with what you've got then there is no need to engage in the unrealisable quest for the audiophile "Holy Grail". If you're not happy then headphones is the way to go.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

The best answer and also the most cost effective by a large margin is this one:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/upgrade-advice.18081/post-588007

Changing electronics for high(er) end is the least bang for $ . Flagship headphones will sound and feel different, for sure. "Better" is a tricky word but lets assume if you spend $000s on a pair, your brain will convince you they are heaven sent regardless.

As for change of file type/ streaming provider..... $10 a month or so extra might just cure the nervosa and you can always go back if you realise any perceptible differences just aren't worth it. YMMV.

 

[LTig]

I agree with the fore posters that a better headphone is the way to go, and the HD800(s) is a wonderful exemplar with the widest soundstage of all (I own one).

The next step could be a RME ADI-2 DAC. Not because I think it sounds better, but due to its many helpful features like EQ, tone controls, loudness, and so on.

 

[Bob-23]

When eq'd (!) your HD660s are near perfect - except for the soundstage which seems be quite weak on the HD660s (as in all of the HD6**):
"The Sennheiser HD 660 S have a sub-par soundstage. The PRTF graph shows that these headphones don't interact with the pinna that much, and therefore show very little activation. They don't show a dip around the 10kHz area either. This means that although these are open-back headphones and they may feel more open and spacious sounding that closed-back headphones, their soundstage won't be perceived to be large or located outside of the listener's head."
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sennheiser/hd-660-s

So, apart from eq'ing your phones, the only improvement path for you would be with regard to soundstage.

It depends on how important soundstage is for you. What some people find immersive, others may find overly wide.

For a larger soundstage you don't, necessarily, need the HD800s, which, nonetheless, seem to be the 'king of soundstage' (but need eqing, too!).

The momentary often mentioned Fidlio X2HR' soundstage should alo be clearly better than the one of your HD660s. Even better is the soundstage of the K702s, but these phones are very picky with regards to recording quality, and the X2HR have, generally, a bit more 'body' and 'punch'. And there are other ones with a larger soundstage, e.g. Hifimans.

Anyway, I attached the Oratory1990 Eq - before you buy anything, I'd try it out.

 

[ex audiophile]

I agree with the fore posters that a better headphone is the way to go, and the HD800(s) is a wonderful exemplar with the widest soundstage of all (I own one).

The next step could be a RME ADI-2 DAC. Not because I think it sounds better, but due to its many helpful features like EQ, tone controls, loudness, and so on.

I had no idea that a headphone amp would include DSP, that's a great idea. Am I being overly naive to think that I can buy the RME, read the manual, and EQ my phones? If only Anthem would make a headphone DAC/amp! lol

 

[Berwhale]

I had no idea that a headphone amp would include DSP, that's a great idea. Am I being overly naive to think that I can buy the RME, read the manual, and EQ my phones? If only Anthem would make a headphone DAC/amp! lol

The RME supports parametric EQ, so I think you would just enter the settings from here: AutoEq/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 660 S at master · jaakkopasanen/AutoEq · GitHub

I used these settings with EqualizerAPO on Windows.

 

[ex audiophile]

The RME supports parametric EQ, so I think you would just enter the settings from here: AutoEq/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 660 S at master · jaakkopasanen/AutoEq · GitHub

I used these settings with EqualizerAPO on Windows.

That would be great, thank you. RME seems to have several models/versions, is the ADI-2 DAC FS the model I should get? Good luck with your immunizations over there

 

[Iglo]

Show us that's true with facts, passing this test with 20 trials. Personally I've no passed it with Gelenecs 8331s and hp Stax SR007mkII in the noisy conditions of my office.

http://abx.digitalfeed.net/

Not to highjack the topic but thank for sharing the link! I never did go in to trouble checking out if I would be able to hear the difference in streaming quality. Based on a quick 5 samples test I found out two things: I potentially should be able to hear a difference (I should re-check with the 20 sample version though) but more importantly is't incredibly hard to do (unpleasant even).

Back on topic. I also would recommend eqing your HD660s. There is a noticeable improvement (to me) when EQ'ed to the Oratory1990 curve. I would recommend trying this on your PC before throwing cash at a new DAC with an EQ option though.

 

[ex audiophile]

Not to highjack the topic but thank for sharing the link! I never did go in to trouble checking out if I would be able to hear the difference in streaming quality. Based on a quick 5 samples test I found out two things: I potentially should be able to hear a difference (I should re-check with the 20 sample version though) but more importantly is't incredibly hard to do (unpleasant even).

Back on topic. I also would recommend eqing your HD660s. There is a noticeable improvement (to me) when EQ'ed to the Oratory1990 curve. I would recommend trying this on your PC before throwing cash at a new DAC with an EQ option though.

Agreed, I get a bit over anxious but I’ve recovered
I’m busily looking for info on the subject; if u happen to know a thread or link for newbies trying to eq headphones please advise. In any case thank you.