Upcoming Tom Danley Hifi speakers

[amirm]

@AdamG247 (a mod, for those who don't know) PM'd me Sunday morning to let me know that he petitioned to get my link reinstated but as part of the agreement with you (and thusly me, with you, through him) I can only have my link in my signature and that all future reviews posted by me must be a full copy/paste from my website with no link to my review website in the post. He said he had to delete one of my recent threads because I didn't abide by that. No big deal. I get it. I told him I'd comply. Crisis averted.

The petition had nothing to do with the rest of what you wrote above. There was no deal. He simply asked me to reinstate your links and I did because he asked. He did that in the interest of membership with best intentions. And I recognized that and did as he asked.

Later however, you went and created two clickbait reviews, putting part of the review in a thread here and then linking to your site with sponsored links for people to go read the rest. So we had to come with a solution and above is what was created. I hate to tell any member what to write in a review but you forced our hand there.

If you want to avoid a crisis in the future, keep in mind the pain points for us. Act professionally and put the information and interest of membership at heart and all would be well. Think of growing your site and making more money and this will repeat itself and different course of action will have to be taken to stop it. These things have nothing to do with my "feelings" about you one way or the other. There are plenty of people who argue with me here but don't get any sanctions.

 

[richard12511]

Because it was triggered by what Erin said:



If the current situation doesn't sit well with him or others, then the only option is to let go of Erin as he originally decided to do on its own. I was going to do a review yesterday and instead had to spend an hour dealing with this mess and antagonization that was created.

I can understand both sides(you and Erin) to some degree. However, I really hope you don't ban Erin from posting his reviews here. The greatest value of this site is the SOTA speaker measurements it provides to consumers via the NFS. Having an extra NFS(that Erin bought) is a HUGE value to the community, and is perfectly inline with the mission of this site.

I'm fine with you not allowing Erin to try and recoup his monetary losses, but having twice as many speaker reviews greatly increases the value of this forum.

 

[HooStat]

Could you both just have a conversation? You are both good people who have invested a lot of your time and money to provide excellent content.

I can tell you what I would like, as a person who reads this site. You collaborate on providing the speaker reviews posted on ASR. In other words, each of you would do speaker reviews here as ASR speaker reviewers. And they would follow the ASR guidelines and rough template, and be promoted to the reviews page. Erin's might be slightly different (e.g., globe plots and listening impressions). But they already follow very similar approaches. All forum discussion would be on ASR, and no links other than to Erin's website in his signature. Erin can ALSO post versions on his website, and do Youtube videos and anything he likes outside of ASR.

(I realize that what I wrote is essentially what Erin just agreed to above.) There may be better answers/solutions, but everyone would be better off if you collaborate.

 

[Zvu]

@hardisj Please, make your own forum on your website and solve this that way. Autocracy is obviously human default if even the least disbalance of power exist between humans. Whatever you do, it just won't cut it since you do not cease to exist. Otherwise your digital existence will always depend on Amir's coffee and if it had enough sugar this morning.

Kimmo moved his VCad operation to HTguide forum. Maybe that would be an option. There people would be gratefull for trafic boost and you don't step on anybodys toes

 

[hardisj]

Amir and I don't have to collaborate. We don't have to have a grand kumbaya. We can just co-exist. If his beef with me is that I have affiliate links on my site and he doesn't want me linking those then: OKAY.

Up until last night, I thought everything was good between myself, Amir and the mod staff.

And, please, someone, move this stuff off this Danley thread. It's doing a huge disservice to the topic at hand.

 

[AdamG]

Thread notice: No more off topic posts in this thread. Further violations will be deleted and issued a Warning.

 

[kyle_neuron]

Who is your company?
Keith

It’s an AV rental and installation house based in the north west of the UK. I don’t want to spam the thread or forum with my commercial interests, especially given recent issues, but if you’re curious then you can probably find us from my username.

We’ve been using Danley products for over 5 years - among other interesting stuff, typically point source - for hospitality and live music venues. Our work includes stages at Glastonbury festival, and using just a pair of J3-94 with some fill SH96HO to cover a 50,000 capacity fireworks event.

I’ve personally been a follower of Tom’s work and friendly sharing of in-depth information since the early 2000s, and this ‘hifi focused’ product line is something that’s been asked for since many moons ago.

 

[Head_Unit]

"...and then the lower one does not even fill the slot of the horn. Maybe I'm missing something...", if I didn't misunderstand you, yes, the 7'' woofer used at the bottom of the Ocean Way HR5 speaker fully fills the diffraction slot.

Looking at that much clearer picture, the 7" woofer fills the diffraction horn opening horizontally, but only 1/2 or 1/3 vertically. It's like some of these Klipsch and other horns, where a circular driver is fitted to a square horn throat. I literally do not get that, how is a wave supposed to transition well?

 

[ctrl]

Looking at that much clearer picture, the 7" woofer fills the diffraction horn opening horizontally, but only 1/2 or 1/3 vertically. It's like some of these Klipsch and other horns, where a circular driver is fitted to a square horn throat. I literally do not get that, how is a wave supposed to transition well?

In vertical direction, the opening of the diffraction slot (of the Ocean Wave HR5) is almost as high as the cone of the 7'' driver, so the influence of the slot on the radiation is small.

In horizontal direction, the opening width of the diffraction slot roughly corresponds to 4cm (1.5''). You should think of this less as a transition, but more as a "new" sound source with a width of 4cm (like water waves hitting a slot and starting a new wave front behind the slot).

So the horizontal radiation becomes very wide and ideally is completely controlled by the horn up to the crossover frequency.

Of course, above a certain frequency there is all kinds of interference, so the crossover frequency must be chosen accordingly low. The principle is almost identical to, for example, Danley_SH50 where round openings are used.

Since between woofer cone and slot no damping materials can be introduced, the resulting resonances show a high Q, which can be used as an acoustic filter, but also causes a very poor decay - in case of the HR5 and SH50 in the midrange:


The decay problem seems to be less acute with the SH50 than with the HR5, but CSD diagrams from different sources with different scaling can only be compared to a limited extent.
But in both cases the oscillation delay is several oscillation periods until a -30dB damping of the resonances is reached.

 

[Head_Unit]

In vertical direction, the opening of the diffraction slot (of the Ocean Wave HR5) is almost as high as the cone of the 7'' driver,

I think maybe the pictures are tripping me out. In your picture I see like a bottom surround at the bottom of the slot...looks like the driver is taller horizontally almost...but other pictures there is clearly a ring like 1/3 the height of the slot. Is the driver coaxial? Or some kind of phase plug?

 

[ctrl]

Or some kind of phase plug?

Also think that the woofer has a phase plug. The manufacturer states in the HR5 specification of a 7'' woofer, which fits quite well with the photo.
Could be something similar to this:

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Looking at that much clearer picture, the 7" woofer fills the diffraction horn opening horizontally, but only 1/2 or 1/3 vertically. It's like some of these Klipsch and other horns, where a circular driver is fitted to a square horn throat. I literally do not get that, how is a wave supposed to transition well?

Simple: there is no wave.

For instance, 1khz is 34cm long. If the slot is small enough, a wave cannot form. You're basically just creating pressure.

The wave forms when the aperture is large enough for the wave to form.

It was one of the things that took a while for me to grasp, with the Danley Paralines. That below a certain frequency, waves can't form, because the aperture isn't big enough for them to form.

Of course, things get complex when you start to consider things like "turbulence in bends" and how that turbulence can affect a fraction of the air molecules but not 100% of them.

In general, I'm not a fan of diffraction slots, but sometimes they're a necessary evil.

 

[Newman]

If the slot is small enough, a wave cannot form. You're basically just creating pressure.

The wave forms when the aperture is large enough for the wave to form.

Then how does my 40 Hz Edgar Monolith horn reproduce an 8.5m wavelength despite its throat (aperture) being 0.15m x 0.2m?

 

[Patrick Bateman]

A bit similar to this, but in the case of your horn, visualize it being driven by a suitably small source to the left of that slot. Similar to how a 30cm woofer can radiate a 50hz (680cm) wave.

When the aperture is large enough, the waves form. For low frequencies in your Monolith horn, the waves form outside of the horn mouth.

This doesn't mean that there aren't high and low pressure sections INSIDE of the horn. But a 50Hz (680cm) wave can't form inside of a 150cm aperture, just as a water wave that's three meters in diameter can't form inside of a pipe that's half a meter in diameter.

Note that when the aperture is asymmetrical, you can accomplish all kinds of strange things, such as a round woofer generating a wave that's tall and narrow. Like this:

 

[Head_Unit]

Simple: there is no wave.

For instance, 1khz is 34cm long. If the slot is small enough, a wave cannot form. You're basically just creating pressure.

Mmmm I see, that makes sense. So then 10 kHz is a 3.4 cm wavelength...if you have say like a 3 cm opening does it matter if it is square or round? I can't wrap my head around if that is big enough for any cancellation.

I'm thinking for instance of the Klipschorn, whose tweeter and mid horns have square openings with round drivers stuck in them. I get how a woofer can fire through a slot at relatively low frequencies, that's not vastly different than a compression driver. The round driver into a square opening at high frequencies bothers me more.

 

[darrellh44]

I went to a Danley touring demo about nine months ago when they came to Dallas's Fair Park. Their new line of studio monitors in this photo include from left to right (only left side of stereo pairs shown), the ILE line array, the HRE1 with Synergy horn (formerly the Hyperion), and the Studio One on top the HRE1. They all had ample bass in an outdoor setting (the Studio One pair were aided by a single CS30 sub). They all sounded fantastic - very coherent, accurate, and dynamic.

I asked the guy running the demo if the Synergy horn in the HRE1 was similar to the SM60F, to which he said they are identical except the HRE1 is active tri-amped with built-in DSP correction while the SM60F is a passive 3-way. He then also mentioned that Danley is going to come out with an active upgrade kit for the SM60F which should bring it up to the level of performance of the HRE1 above 60 Hz.

It looks like they have changed the design of the HRE1 somewhat since last fall with the dual-opposed 15" woofers on the sides moved to the front in the spec sheet currently on their website. The amazing magnitude and phase response curves are also shown.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I went to a Danley touring demo about nine months ago when they came to Dallas's Fair Park. Their new line of studio monitors in this photo include from left to right (only left side of stereo pairs shown), the ILE line array, the HRE1 with Synergy horn (formerly the Hyperion), and the Studio One on top the HRE1. They all had ample bass in an outdoor setting (the Studio One pair were aided by a single CS30 sub). They all sounded fantastic - very coherent, accurate, and dynamic.

I asked the guy running the demo if the Synergy horn in the HRE1 was similar to the SM60F, to which he said they are identical except the HRE1 is active tri-amped with built-in DSP correction while the SM60F is a passive 3-way. He then also mentioned that Danley is going to come out with an active upgrade kit for the SM60F which should bring it up to the level of performance of the HRE1 above 60 Hz.

It looks like they have changed the design of the HRE1 somewhat since last fall with the dual-opposed 15" woofers on the sides moved to the front in the spec sheet currently on their website. The amazing magnitude and phase response curves are also shown.

View attachment 307356

They look like this on Sweetwater

 

[voodooless]

the HRE1 with Synergy horn (formerly the Hyperion)

I think the name Hyperion has a much better marketing value... At least he could have named the thing "The speaker formally known as Hyperion" or TSFKAH

 

[Sokel]

The amp specs smell NC1200 or 1200as2,do we know which ones?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Pretty similar design