Unpopular opinions for here.

[DaDonGoffed]

Actual surveys of users, have demonstrated that point 1 is in fact wrong...

I would refer you to the Harman studies of speakers, where users consistently preferred lower distortion and more linear designs when tested blind... - this is a myth.

Having said that - lots of people use their system as a mechanism to "colour" the sound to taste... from things as basic as bass/treble controls, to full RoomEQ and Target curves... - I just don't think there is actual evidence to support your contention that people actually "prefer" distortion.... lots of people talk about it, and lots of articles have been written about the hypothesis that certain preferences are due to specific harmonic distortion profiles.... - but the little work that has been done to try to test that hypothesis, tends to show it to be flawed.

The 110db SINAD is really pretty irrelevant - the threshold for audibility of THD tends to be around -60db, and the threshold for Signal/Noise tends to be around -70db... if you allow an additional 10db for safety margin, anything above 80db SINAD is pretty much academic (except in a recording environment, when other aspects come into play)

But you might find it interesting to experiment with blind testing yourself, and adding controlled amounts of THD (or specifically 2nd harmonic) - to see whether you find it to be audible... and if you do, you could then test to see whether you do in fact find it preferable!

Really? I remember seeing the study that said the opposite. I can't remember where it's from.

 

[dualazmak]

And I don't think many would disagree that there are other aspects to owning gear besides performance, such as build quality, dealer support, warranty, reputation, made in the USA/UK/Germany/etc (and not in China).

Fully agree!

Please add (HiFi) Japan especially in terms of "long-year" (common for all of the followings) durability/robustness, parts selections, repair parts availability, maintenance/repair/overhaul service availability, warranty, support system/network, etc.

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

Alot of people would perfer tube amps to ss because of the distortion. It seems adding just a bit of distortion, like even order seems to be preferred by alot of people.

Yes, the thing is that you don't know, what happened to the music in the studio.
If they deliberately added distortion there, it can go wrong if your home hi-fi does the same.

I recently listened to an Expanse on the Cayin HA-6A. It was a nightmare. The clean bass of the Expanse was simply destroyed... it had nothing to do with warmth, and certainly nothing to do with Hi-Fi...

 

[Jim Taylor]

Really? I remember seeing the study that said the opposite. I can't remember where it's from.

I, too, have seen this in print. One thing to remember is that false information can be presented as fact, and if it resonates with a certain segment of the audio world, it is taken as gospel. That doesn't mean that it stands up to scientifically-controlled scrutiny, only that it provides emotional support for what I would call voodoo, b.s. and superstition.

No matter which area of human endeavor or thought, and no matter how emotionally invested you are in the outcome, always reject assertions that are not supported by rigorously controlled analysis and logical thinking. Never forget the Cold Fusion debacle.

Jim

 

[JSmith]

Alot of people would perfer tube amps to ss because of the distortion. It seems adding just a bit of distortion, like even order seems to be preferred by alot of people.

Usually it's frequency response deviations, not the harmonic distortion (unless stupidly high). Keep in mind any distortion is a departure from linearity. Also in relation to an amp, if you have harmonic distortion, then you also have intermodulation distortion and that is much more audible/objectionable. It's best not to have a device with a baked in distortion and altered frequency profile, as one can't change it.


JSmith

 

[Chrispy]

As long as labeled as an opinion, works for me. Popular or not is harder to determine but some do seem to enjoy certain levels of/types of distortion but while production distortion may be desirable by an artist, but adding to theirs with your reproduction gear gets weird perhaps. Consumer electronics build quality can be bad on occasion but mostly works out....hopefully sooner than later on the bell curve. I have both old and new Denons and no issue fwiw (altho the oldest one, a 3808, is showing some signs of age).

 

[majingotan]

Yes, the thing is that you don't know, what happened to the music in the studio.
If they deliberately added distortion there, it can go wrong if your home hi-fi does the same.

I recently listened to an Expanse on the Cayin HA-6A. It was a nightmare. The clean bass of the Expanse was simply destroyed... it had nothing to do with warmth, and certainly nothing to do with Hi-Fi...

Low power tube amps and Expanse are a mismatch. You'd have a much better experience with a push-pull speaker tube amp such as Willsenton R8 driving the Expanse, but then again, low impedance and low sensitivity planars are the hardest loads to drive using tubes. Susvara OTOH is a medium-impedance planar while ModHouse Tungsten DS are high impedance planars which are actually easier loads to low power tube amps and thus having ultra clear, ultra clean bass and extremely pleasant sounding 2nd harmonic distortion. And NONE of these are high fidelity, but a fun hobbyist setup!

 

[Chrispy]

Low power tube amps and Expanse are a mismatch. You'd have a much better experience with a push-pull speaker tube amp such as Willsenton R8 driving the Expanse, but then again, low impedance and low sensitivity planars are the hardest loads to drive using tubes. Susvara OTOH is a medium-impedance planar while ModHouse Tungsten DS are high impedance planars which are actually easier loads to low power tube amps and thus having ultra clear, ultra clean bass and extremely pleasant sounding 2nd harmonic distortion. And NONE of these are high fidelity, but a fun hobbyist setup!

Just reinforces my avoidance of such tweakery.

 

[dlaloum]

Really? I remember seeing the study that said the opposite. I can't remember where it's from.

I've seen at least one study that looked at preferences in distortion types, distribution, and loudness.... but really did not investigate the basic nul hypothesis (ie: what about undistorted!?)

 

[stultifera navis]

Mono is better than stereo. And by that, i mean only listen to one speaker in mono.

 

[Waxx]

I have tube amps and single driver fullrange speakers, and i'm still here...

No seriously, this site is about scientific testing and research of audio equipment, not to push one philosophy to everybody. And like said before, they are very tollerant down here for personal taste, as long as you recognise it as personal taste (and not the objective truth).

As long as you come with scientific arguments and respect general good manners, you can say a lot here (also about subjective factors). Just don't sell snake oil and say it's the ultimate hifi. It's not, and neighter is my tube amp or full range speakers, the Genelec and Neumann's of today are that. Or the Kii, JBL, Dutch&Dutch, ... But you don't have to like those on subjective level, that is free and personal.

 

[Axo1989]

The colleagues working in production have a different meaning for the word "a lot". Sometimes there can even be two lots, even three ...

Of course, it is also a noun. Useful when you are running an auction, or managing property cadastre data. Or just thinking about your luck.

 

[Axo1989]

Mono is better than stereo. And by that, i mean only listen to one speaker in mono.

Ha! Stereo is "a lot" better than mono.

 

[stultifera navis]

I have tube amps and single driver fullrange speakers, and i'm still here...

No seriously, this site is about scientific testing and research of audio equipment, not to push one philosophy to everybody. And like said before, they are very tollerant down here for personal taste, as long as you recognise it as personal taste (and not the objective truth).

As long as you come with scientific arguments and respect general good manners, you can say a lot here (also about subjective factors). Just don't sell snake oil and say it's the ultimate hifi. It's not, and neighter is my tube amp or full range speakers, the Genelec and Neumann's of today are that. Or the Kii, JBL, Dutch&Dutch, ... But you don't have to like those on subjective level, that is free and personal.

it's important to remember that we don't have the same speaker design for every task, genelec, neumann and kii er made for home environments and studios. And yes they are good in that setting. But i think the majority of people would be disappointed if cinemas and conserts startet to use the same speakers. We all have slightly different living conditions, so we need different kind of speakers.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Three channel is the real fire. Stereo....ha!

 

[dlaloum]

Three channel is the real fire. Stereo....ha!

Well ... strictly speaking, the original system that "coined" the term "stereo" for audio, was a 3 channel setup....

 

[Chrispy]

Well ... strictly speaking, the original system that "coined" the term "stereo" for audio, was a 3 channel setup....

Let alone that stereo doesn't particularly mean 2.0 content

 

[DJBonoBobo]

There is a reason opinions are often compared to anusses.
- Most people have one
- They are very important and useful for their owners
- There may be places to show and discuss them, but there is little chance, that they are of any interest at all to others in other places

 

[MattHooper]

A lot and allot are pronounced the same, but they have unrelated meanings.

- A lot is used as a pronoun meaning “many” or “a great amount” and an adverb meaning “very much” or “often.”
- Allot is a verb meaning “assign” or “distribute.”
- Alot is sometimes mistakenly used instead of a lot. However, it isn’t a real word and should be avoided.

“Right. You’re in.”

 

[Axo1989]

“Right. You’re in.”

I enjoyed that clip a lot.