Universal stereo amplifier for long-term ownership.

[Roland68]

Well, Yamaha's amplifier has very strange flaw: per owner's manual, when powered on by trigger, it switches input to 'main in' which is unbalanced, so balanced inputs os A-S2200 makes no sense in two-component setup.

Quite disapointing, I just found some good offers for A-S2200 and 6 years of warranty is very attrective.

Also learned that Musical Fidelity are proud to use SMD so probably many service cases will be board replacement instead of tracing and co

In other hands, Atoll diagrams are leaking on some DYI/Serviceman forums, so it probably no that bad from perspective of post-warranty service/repair.

The A-S2200 has only one trigger input, no output. The trigger input is only intended for use as a power amplifier. That's why it's switched to MAIN DIRECT as the input.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Speakers were chosen to be easy load for the average power supply of entry-level AV receiver.

I do not like 'DIRECT' sound, as I mostly listed at lower volumes, so 'STEREO' sound mode in Denon and Audissey Dynamic EQ are usually engaged for listening of music.

From reading your post, I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that you needed a different amplifier and that changing amplifier would have a significant impact on what you hear.
My advice is to keep reading, all the pieces of the puzzle are somewhere on this site, start by everything written by amirm.
You will eventually save a lot of money and possibly get a more enjoyable listening experience from your sound system.

 

[l_lama]

The A-S2200 has only one trigger input, no output. The trigger input is only intended for use as a power amplifier. That's why it's switched to MAIN DIRECT as the input.

I would like to use balanced inputs. 'Main IN' is unbalanced input. I find no way to configure Yamaha's amplifier to swith to balanced inputs when powered on by trigger.
If I would go with Yamaha, I'll be unable to use balanced inputs automatically as pre-amp will trigger the power section of Yamaha amplifier.

From reading your post, I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that you needed a different amplifier and that changing amplifier would have a significant impact on what you hear.

I plan to acquire some device with much better room correction and equilizer then my entry-level AV receiver can offer.

This source should be either all-in-one (like higher tier AV receiver ) or should be paired with power amplifier, that's why this thead exists.
If the room correction and equalization are not improving the situation to the degree I'll be happy with the result, I'll proceed to speakers and/or subwoofers.

There is no expectation that power amplifier itself will significantly impact on the sound, but I think I need it to enable DIRAC on some other device connected to this power amp and/or acquire more demanding speakers.

 

[Cote Dazur]

If the room correction and equalization are not improving the situation to the degree I'll be happy with the result, I'll proceed to speakers and/or subwoofers.

Glad to read that you understand amplification in its self will not change much if anything.
Room correction and/or EQ will dramatically alter what your hear.
It is my experience that an other way of altering what we hear with a dramatical difference is speakers/seat placement.
That would be my first move in your situation, before buying anything else. Sometimes a few inches is all it takes.
Good luck.

 

[l_lama]

It is my experience that an other way of altering what we hear with a dramatical difference is speakers/seat placement.
That would be my first move in your situation, before buying anything else. Sometimes a few inches is all it takes.

There is some space reserved to move speakers closer to the wall of reduce distance between theb my 10 or 20 centimeters, I'll play with it room placement in this inteval.
Permanent change of the room layout is most expensive and time-consuming of all possible solutions, it is dirty, noisy and irreversible.
That's why I don't even try to move things yet - even if it will sound better on another wall, there is no practical way to use this.
The system should sound good in the place where architect placed it at floorplan, the rest is matter of electronics, I can help it with carpet if necessary.

 

[Petrushka]

I know people are down on AI, but this is what my browser has to say:

Class D amplifiers can last between 10 to 15 years with proper care, and some well-designed models are expected to last 20 years or more. The longevity of a Class D amplifier largely depends on the quality of its design and components, with high-end models from reputable manufacturers like NAD or those using ICs such as Hypex or Icepower showing strong reliability. Modern Class D amplifiers, especially those used in professional settings like jukeboxes, have demonstrated durability with continuous operation for over a decade.

While some users report concerns about reliability, particularly with lower-priced models, the failure rate is often linked to power supply issues rather than the Class D topology itself. In fact, Class D amplifiers are generally more reliable than their Class A/B counterparts in terms of thermal stress, as they do not experience significant thermal cycling when turned on and off, which can degrade components over time. However, capacitors—common to all solid-state amplifiers—can degrade over many years and may need replacement, though they are relatively inexpensive and easy to replace.

There is no inherent reason for Class D amplifiers to self-destruct or fail prematurely due to their switching operation, despite myths suggesting otherwise. The idea that the high-frequency switching causes wear is not supported by engineering evidence. Overall, a well-designed Class D amplifier, especially one with robust power supply and quality components, can be expected to last for decades, similar to high-quality Class A/B amplifiers.

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

I'm with the other posters who are skeptical that swapping amplifiers or using balanced inputs is going to make an audible difference. Low volume listening and what appears to be a easy-to-drive speakers shouldn't tax most amps. And while balanced ins and outs have their place in complex pro audio setups they won't make much difference to the typical home hi fi setup.

 

[l_lama]

or using balanced inputs is going to make an audible difference

This is mostly pre-caution - a read some text hear about cables, ground loops, RFI etc.
I don't really mind balanced connection to squeeze out more clarity etc, just want to mix power, network and spekers cables at the back of the reack with no doubts about intefernces.

I have balanced setup on my desk, cables cost me a little at local DJ shop, they are very flexible, so I would go more or less the same way for living room.

 

[HalSF]

If you're looking for something truly durable, I would initially steer clear of many Class D amplifiers. The capacitors in most Class D amplifiers are subject to faster aging due to the relatively high frequencies they are subjected to. More importantly, these amplifiers/modules are often difficult to repair. Warranty coverage often only covers the replacement of entire modules, which becomes very expensive after the warranty expires.

I’m keenly interested in the discussion around Class D amplifier reliability, durability, and repair. Negativity about this is one of the consistent angles in rear-guard arguments both for more traditional topologies like A/B, and for expensive high-end brands with generous long-term warranties.

This claim about accelerated Class D capacitor obsolescence is new to me. What is the source if I may ask?

My sense is that for most people, finding and paying for audio component repair outside the warranty is almost always a painful, prolonged, and expensive proposition no matter what. I’m a bit skeptical that Class D amplifiers are dramatically worse in that regard, but maybe we’re finding out it’s true.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Class D amps like the 3e can’t be repaired, but primarily for economic reasons. Of course you should be able to repair your $2,500 amp which has service manuals and a 20 year warranty. One thing I wonder is if people intend to repair these yourself or if they really think their dealer will still be open in 15-20 years and still have their 60-year old technician working on amps.

A $250 amp like the e3 audio makes no sense to repair. If a technician charges you for two hours or bench time to diagnose an issue, that is half the cost of the amp. Furthermore, the PSU is external and replaceable and the opamps are socketed. No service technician is going to look forward to resoldering a 44-pin TPA3255, which is the primary active component.

The reputation for class D amps killing capacitors seems to be primarily due to Hypex, which didn’t use low ESR capacitors on some of its products. Relative to the Chinese brands, Hypex really cheaped out on components and the resistance in the caps causes them to get warmer at high switching speeds.

Of course, people feel that those big iron AB amps are reliable. But they get them serviced every 15-20 years and the service cost is more than the entire price of a class D amp.

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

This is mostly pre-caution - a read some text hear about cables, ground loops, RFI etc.
I don't really mind balanced connection to squeeze out more clarity etc, just want to mix power, network and spekers cables at the back of the reack with no doubts about intefernces.

I have balanced setup on my desk, cables cost me a little at local DJ shop, they are very flexible, so I would go more or less the same way for living room.

What you have read is correct, but unlikely to provide any real benefit for a home stereo. By way of analogy, I own a sailboat (well, three actually, but who's counting?) Stainless steel hardware, plus marine grade adhesives and finishes are essential for that environment. If I'm just putting up a shelf in the living room I don't need that level of durability.

Less analoglistically (if that's a word) I used to work as a broadcast engineer in situations where there were literally hundreds of pieces of analog audio equipment in high RF environments, so balanced inputs and outputs plus isolation transformers on the AC and a star-ground architecture was essential. When doing multi-day outdoor PA gigs, all the gear needed to be securely tarped overnight. I feel no need to go to those lengths in my living room. YMMV.

Also, balanced connections do not "squeeze out more clarity". They reduce common mode noise, which is great, and since +4dBu is about 12dB hotter than -10dBV there might be a bit of increased SNAD. Emphasis on might,

 

[JeffS7444]

I am surrounded by older things which are in good working condition, and this is because I've taken the time to maintain them. Sometimes this involves finding suitable modern replacements for parts which haven't been manufactured in decades, or rebuilding assemblies which were once simply discarded and replaced with new ones.

I don't know about proprietary designs like ICEpower, Hypex and Purifi, but most Class D amplifiers seem to be built around the same Texas Instruments or Infineon ICs, and chances are, the circuit designs don't vary much from the reference circuits published by the chipmakers.

One challenge when servicing all-discrete designs is that some are designed to use matched sets of devices, and when the part has been out of production for some time, replacing them can be a non-trivial task.

 

[Wolf11Man]

If you buy a new conventional amp which may fail in 10-15 years, you will not find anyone to repair it any more. Individuals that can repair (not change a complete board for a new one!) are already very rare. They will have retired by then. On the other hand, discrete parts and integrated circuits are vanishing from the market, so even if a repair is simple, it get's impossible. Like millions of older Onky AVR's once price from 300-5000$ for example, that all used the same chip which was build to fail. So you throw away 100% perfect gear because of a discontinued 6$ part.
Don't expect any brand to service old stuff by then, too. Hardly all brands outsourced service to specialized companys which they supply with exchange parts for a limited time. No more exchange parts = your amp is for the land fill...

 

[Petrushka]

I think ASR has removed sound quality vs price as an issue, except for the extreme low end.

What is left is the ability to play at rock concert levels. Something that doesn’t interest me. I consider 85 dBa to be loud. I’m pretty sure that most amps. 95 percent, will last 15 years, and that class D amps will contribute very little to landfills.

I think these choices and preferences represent the majority of consumers, but probably not the majority of ASR followers.

 

[JeffS7444]

Two brands which would particularly interest me are McIntosh and Accuphase, preferably not too large or "tech": One or two sets of matched output devices per channel might not be too difficult to replace. But repairing older components is always going to be a bit tricky, because sometimes it's the parts you least expect which are the most difficult to replace: An oddly-shaped capacitor, for example.

 

[l_lama]

So my Rotel RB-1582mk2 came yesterday and now I wonder if I have to return it. There is just too much gain!

I wonder who are using all that Purify/Ncore stuff of 450WPC or even more.

It drives my Dali Opticon 6 speaker of 89dB sensitivity and I'm about 2.5m away from speaker's front.
On Onkyo P-80 pre-amp which I pick from store the same day I have to set the volume to 8.5 (of 100) for evening listening.
I think I'll push it somewhere to 14 during day hours. 18 is too much.

The least sensitive speakers I considered as potential alternatives are 85 dB, so it could be probably 25 of 100 in very worsta case.

So I'm unsure if I have to return 200W model and get very simlat Rotel RB-1552mk2 which has similar schematics and components, but less output transistor pairs, so it is just 130W only. Albeit pre-amp can to 0.5 increments and I can really set volume to comfortable level, if somehove volume will be set to something like 50, the amp will probably just shut the membranes into room or burn the coils or make be deaf..

Does it makes to keep that much headroom if I will never push the amplifier more then 25% of volume even hypothetically with least sensistive speakers I ever considered?

 

[monsterlag]

If you're looking for something truly durable, I would initially steer clear of many Class D amplifiers. The capacitors in most Class D amplifiers are subject to faster aging due to the relatively high frequencies they are subjected to. More importantly, these amplifiers/modules are often difficult to repair. Warranty coverage often only covers the replacement of entire modules, which becomes very expensive after the warranty expires.

From personal experience, I can recommend, for example, the large amplifiers from the Yamaha A-S1X00/2X00/3X00 series, which typically last for several decades. Failures are very rare with these units. These amplifiers can be used as power amplifiers, preamplifiers, and integrated amplifiers. Service manuals are available, and any reputable repair shop can service them.
Even a used or demo unit is worthwhile with these amplifiers. An A-S2100 can be found for as little as €1200-1600.

LMAO this reads like some Class A/ AB amplifier lover propaganda.

 

[DVDdoug]

There is just too much gain!...

...and get very simliar Rotel RB-1552mk2 which has similar schematics and components, but less output transistor pairs, so it is just 130W only.

They both have the same gain. But you're right. The higher power amp is "more "dangerous if you accidently go to full-power.

You can get inline attenuators[, or some power amps have adjustable gain.

 

[Sale64]

So my Rotel RB-1582mk2 came yesterday and now I wonder if I have to return it. There is just too much gain!

I wonder who are using all that Purify/Ncore stuff of 450WPC or even more.

It drives my Dali Opticon 6 speaker of 89dB sensitivity and I'm about 2.5m away from speaker's front.
On Onkyo P-80 pre-amp which I pick from store the same day I have to set the volume to 8.5 (of 100) for evening listening.
I think I'll push it somewhere to 14 during day hours. 18 is too much.

The least sensitive speakers I considered as potential alternatives are 85 dB, so it could be probably 25 of 100 in very worsta case.

So I'm unsure if I have to return 200W model and get very simlat Rotel RB-1552mk2 which has similar schematics and components, but less output transistor pairs, so it is just 130W only. Albeit pre-amp can to 0.5 increments and I can really set volume to comfortable level, if somehove volume will be set to something like 50, the amp will probably just shut the membranes into room or burn the coils or make be deaf..

Does it makes to keep that much headroom if I will never push the amplifier more then 25% of volume even hypothetically with least sensistive speakers I ever considered?

I owe the 1552mk2 and the 1582mk2. The "small" one is driven by Eversolo dmp-A8 preamp section (radio and tv use), and the big one by Vincent SA-32 preamp (more serious listening). There is no difference in gain between those two. Very comparable loudness and no problem for my opera grand callas speakers.

 

[john61ct]

This may be out of left field, and I am US based.

Adcom GFA-555 and the monobloc 565 sell for $300-400 on eBay

and there are dozens of repair / mod shops around experienced in maintaining / repairing them using a plethora of mod/upgrades and (i believe easily obtained) modern equivalent or better spare parts.

Ideally locally, shipping them costs $60+ and safe packing is a project.

There would be few speakers that would not be cleanly driven by them, and when further repairs are needed in decades to come I'd bet the above still applies.