unexplainable loud buzzing noise when using my Aune x1s?

[solderdude]

When you don't hear it, it also cannot degrade the sound.

Here is another tests that in some cases might help.
Plug in the power supply upside down. With SMPS this usually doesn't do anything though.

To see if the groundloop comes from the wall wart there is another test:

While using the DAC pull its mains plug. Most likely it will still play shortly after you pulled the mains plug.
When this is the case, make it hum (no music) and pull the mains plug again.
When the noises disappear immediately you have proven it comes from the powersupply.
When the hum stays about as long as the music did it is not a powersupply problem.

 

[Aubergine]

When you don't hear it, it also cannot degrade the sound.

Here is another tests that in some cases might help.
Plug in the power supply upside down. With SMPS this usually doesn't do anything though.

To see if the groundloop comes from the wall wart there is another test:

While using the DAC pull its mains plug. Most likely it will still play shortly after you pulled the mains plug.
When this is the case, make it hum (no music) and pull the mains plug again.
When the noises disappear immediately you have proven it comes from the powersupply.
When the hum stays about as long as the music did it is not a powersupply problem.

I have used the power supply that came with my Aune x1s and the Xp1 that can be bought separately same thing using both i dont want to be the guy that just goes nope dont work over and over but i have tried everything except! trying to electrocute myself

I guess i will just live with it like you said if i cant hear it it cant degrade the sound

 

[solderdude]

What are the results of the suggested test ?

 

[Aubergine]

What are the results of the suggested test ?

Oh you mean the test? well i already know its not a power supply related problem i own two xp1s two of the vanilla power supplies that came with my aune x7s and my aune x1s i have used all of them with the x1s and the noise is still there

And it is there even if there is no music present i think it might not have been grounded properly inside and they using screws that i have not seen anywhere else before so its not like i can open it up and check

I dont know if this is important but the vanilla power supply that comes with the Aune x1s and the aune x7s has a different power cable i took a photo

 

[Aubergine]

i dug up the manual for the xp1 and was a bit confused it says output 13.5v × 2 so its 27 volts?

 

[solderdude]

The question was if the hum disappears in the test described.
As soon as the plug is pulled from the wall a device may still work for a little while.
when you do this, and the device keeps on playing is the noise in question gone ?

When you use the USB input and the PC is connected to a 3 prong wall outlet is the problem still there ?

 

[Aubergine]

The question was if the hum disappears in the test described.
As soon as the plug is pulled from the wall a device may still work for a little while.
when you do this, and the device keeps on playing is the noise in question gone ?

When you use the USB input and the PC is connected to a 3 prong wall outlet is the problem still there ?

Not sure what you mean by a 3 prong wall outlet all our outlets looks like the ones in the photo i posted the noise is there no matter what input is used and there is no audio playing when i pull the power audio and power go away at the same time

I have recorded the distortion
https://vocaroo.com/fj9hGkWEYps

 

[solderdude]

Not sure what you mean by a 3 prong wall outlet all our outlets looks like the ones in the photo

The pictures in post 16 show a 3 prong wall outlet (well it shows a European earthed outlet) and the picture below is what one expects is connected to a PC. It is a plug for a grounded connection.

The picture in post #24 is from a double isolated device, it has no ground.

When you use the USB cable instead of the TOSLINK does the noise change ?

 

[Aubergine]

The pictures in post 16 show a 3 prong wall outlet (well it shows a European earthed outlet) and the picture below is what one expects is connected to a PC. It is a plug for a grounded connection.

The picture in post #24 is from a double isolated device, it has no ground.

When you use the USB cable instead of the TOSLINK does the noise change ?

Picture in post 16 is one of the power outlets in my home they all look like this the power cable you get with the Aune xp1 is below that photo 24 is the power cable that is attached to the vanilla power supply you get with the aune x1s and the aune x7s

The sound does not change in character it only changes in volume with toslink its a lot quieter but still audible

 

[Rja4000]

A bit of information regarding plugs...
Your grounded plug is a type F
(Which means you live in Germany, Austria, Spain, the Netherlands or one of the few countries that have them as standard)
The double-isolation one is a very common type C


In Belgium, we have type E and C

 

[Aubergine]

A bit of information regarding plugs...
Your grounded plug is a type F
(Which means you live in Germany, Austria, Spain, the Netherlands or one of the few countries that have them as standard)
The double-isolation one is a very common type C


In Belgium, we have type E and C

We also have type E if this is type E i have a cable just like this one but its black

 

[Rja4000]

We also have Ty


We also have type E if this is type E i have a cable just like this one but its black View attachment 66950

Yes
One may plug a E into an F wall socket and keep grounding, but reverse is simply not possible...

EDIT: I'm not sure it's always true.
The plug seems to have holes to accommodate the grounding prong from socket... Maybe "not always possible"

 

[Rja4000]

But, seriously, you should consider checking if the ground wire in your socket is actually properly connected to earth.
That's key for people's safety.

Did you try to connect the system into another wall socket?

 

[Aubergine]

Okay i have done some homework in my country we have two different sockets type c and type f we have no type E it is really confusing because type e and type f look almost the same i have tried to figure out if they are compatible and i cannot find any information online

" Type C is probably the single most widely used international plug. This two-wire plug is ungrounded, unpolarised "

I only have one type C in my apartment and for some reason its in the ceiling i think it is a much older socket while the other ones are much newer also this is confirmed when i read this " They are being replaced by E, F, J, K or N sockets which work perfectly with Type C plugs. "

"Type C plugs are generally limited for use in appliances that require 2.5 amps or less. "


" Plug F is known as CEE 7/4 and commonly called “Schuko plug”, which is the acronym of “Schutzkontakt”, a German word meaning “protection contact” or “safety contact”. "

"type F is similar to C except that it is round and has the addition of two grounding clips on the side of the plug. "

I have these all over my apartment.. correction plenty of outlets in my apartment dont have metal pins!

they are compatible with each other but C has no ground at all
I have no idea what unpolarised means so i did a quick google and i cannot find anything oh well

There is an entire wikipedia page on the type f outlet on wikipedia


" When inserted into the socket, the Schuko plug covers the socket cavity (1) and establishes protective-earth connection through the earth clips (2) before the line and neutral pins (3) establish contact, thereby preventing users from touching connected pins. A pair of non-conductive guiding notches (4) on the left and right side provides extra stability, enabling the safe use of large and heavy plugs (e.g. with built-in transformers or timers). "

Okay but what if you plug in the vanilla power supply you get with the Aune x1s into a type C socket? you have no ground then? How does plug Type C get ground?

 

[solderdude]

Okay but what if you plug in the vanilla power supply you get with the Aune x1s into a type C socket? you have no ground then? How does plug Type C get ground?

regardless of the used socket you will never have safety ground.

We do have to differentiate safety ground with groundpath for audio.
Safety ground is needed when a device is connected to mains and there are metal parts on it you can touch. So a device with a plug that has ground pins should always be connected to a socket that is grounded. These also fit in non-grounded wall sockets but this could be potentially dangerous when something goes wrong inside the device.

The groundloop path may or may not be via safety ground. The issue you seem to be having is that leakage currents (every power supply has them) make it into the audiopath which becomes audible. This 'path' can be through your body.
The trick would be to ensure that path doesn't exist (by not touching it) OR to lead the currents away via another path.

The problem is that via that other path (you grounding something using safety ground) it could still make it in the audio path.
This is poor engineering, or poor manufacturing because of incorrect shielding or wire routing.

As said, you can try to run a wire from the RCA out to the ground spring thingies in the wall socket. This may make it go away or make it worse.
Possibly the enclosure needs grounding and not the RCA shield. One would expect these are connected but there may be reasons its not.

 

[Aubergine]

Only two places in my apartment have metal pins kitchen area and the hallway the majority of my power outlets look like this i took a photo

What is this? honestly i googled like crazy i cant find anything that looks like this but they are all over my apartment

 

[Aubergine]

regardless of the used socket you will never have safety ground.

We do have to differentiate safety ground with groundpath for audio.
Safety ground is needed when a device is connected to mains and there are metal parts on it you can touch. So a device with a plug that has ground pins should always be connected to a socket that is grounded. These also fit in non-grounded wall sockets but this could be potentially dangerous when something goes wrong inside the device.

The groundloop path may or may not be via safety ground. The issue you seem to be having is that leakage currents (every power supply has them) make it into the audiopath which becomes audible. This 'path' can be through your body.
The trick would be to ensure that path doesn't exist (by not touching it) OR to lead the currents away via another path.

The problem is that via that other path (you grounding something using safety ground) it could still make it in the audio path.
This is poor engineering, or poor manufacturing because of incorrect shielding or wire routing.

As said, you can try to run a wire from the RCA out to the ground spring thingies in the wall socket. This may make it go away or make it worse.
Possibly the enclosure needs grounding and not the RCA shield. One would expect these are connected but there may be reasons its not.

Thing is the sound is still there if i plug it into powered monitors or an external headphone amp even though im not touching the case sure i can only hear it at a very loud volume but its the same noise so me simply not touching it dont make it go away

What if plug an extension power board into a power socket thats not grounded? all my extension power boards have grounded connections

 

[solderdude]

Only two places in my apartment have metal pins kitchen area and the hallway the majority of my power outlets look like this i took a photoView attachment 66969

What is this? honestly i googled like crazy i cant find anything that looks like this but they are all over my apartment

This is a non grounded wall socket. In older houses only grounded wall sockets were used in the kitchen and where there is water (central heating, washing, drying. Modern houses only have grounded outlets.

You can physically plug a cord in it which is intended for use with safety ground but you really shouldn't for safety reasons. PC's can be a problem in such sockets, laptops etc mostly not.

When you rub your finger across a metal surface of a device and you feel a kind of 'buzzing' sensation and you do not feel the same when the device is NOT connected to mains you clearly have a grounding issue.

 

[Aubergine]

This is a non grounded wall socket. In older houses only grounded wall sockets were used in the kitchen and where there is water (central heating, washing, drying. Modern houses only have grounded outlets.

You can physically plug a cord in it which is intended for use with safety ground but you really shouldn't for safety reasons. PC's can be a problem in such sockets, laptops etc mostly not.

When you rub your finger across a metal surface of a device and you feel a kind of 'buzzing' sensation and you do not feel the same when the device is NOT connected to mains you clearly have a grounding issue.

Okay well seeing how the majority of my power sockets aint grounded i dont really have a choice i have a lot of equipment that uses the ground type of cable that i have to plug into non grounded power sockets i just looked my monitor for one my powered speakers you saying this could damage them somehow? The Aune x1s has the same noise even when i plugged it into the grounded kitchen power outlet and when using the vanilla power supply that aint using a grounded power cable noise remains

But if i plug a power board that has grounded connections into a grounded power outlet would that make it grounded? for example could draw a long extension power cable.. 10 meters 15 meters from a grounded connection into a power board with grounded power outlets and that would be grounded? like this

 

[solderdude]

It won't damage the equipment when you plug a device with safety ground cable in a socket without safety ground.

You merely run a risk of getting a firm jolt from such devices when they either have unusually high leakage currents OR when something (a component or wiring) in the device fails in such a way that metal parts you can touch get electrified by specific internal faults.
This is why it is called safety ground.

With SMPS that have a grounded cable this ground usually is ONLY connected to the mains side and NOT on the DC output side.
That is the tricky part.
This is why I suggested to ground the enclosure (bare metal parts of it) or the RCA shield to an actual ground.
That ground could be a groundpin in a wall socket or (all metal) piping of central heating or water piping (when all copper) and then only on bare metal surfaces as paint isolates.
These SHOULD always be connected to safety ground. Unless, of course, some plastic piping is used.