Under $1K and under 35lbs/16kg for rockin' out?

[AaronDC]

Hi! So, here's the deal: I have a very large room with Klipsch Cornwalls I's and a pair of La Scala I's that I'm restoring and plan to use (I like them better than the Cornwalls). I have a Hsu VTF-2 MK 4 13" subwoofer at my disposal as well. Crossover for it starts at 90Hz. I really like the horn speakers for quiet and listening at normal volumes, which is 90% of my listening. However, when I turn them up for rocking out, I kind of hate them. They become fatiguing and brassy. So, given that each speaker is a tradeoff, I figure, get some other speakers for rocking out. The listening room is our living room, so more speakers are out of the question. However, temporarily placing speakers for a listening session is fine.

I'm looking for the following: under 35lbs/16kg, floor standing or standmount plus stands (speaker and stands are separate so they can each be 35lbs), 8 ohms => 60 watts of power (100 watts IHF), so it'll have to be on the sensitive side of things. I'd like to keep it under $1K, new preferred, used is okay.



Thanks for your help!
Aaron

 

[DVDdoug]

They become fatiguing and brassy.

Have you played-around with equalization? This sounds like a frequency response issue (and a personal preference issue). The basic characteristics of the speaker don't change at higher volumes unless you are over-driving the speaker. I doubt that's happening.


The main thing that makes one speaker sound different from another is frequency response (and the way the dispersion interacts with room acoustics). And, frequency response can be altered/corrected with EQ (as long as you're not trying to fix weak bass by pushing the amp & speaker beyond its limits).

It sounds like you just want to "tone down" those "brassy" high-mid frequencies (when rocking-out).


BTW - I tend to get fatigued (or somehow uncomfortable) with just with loud music in a small room.

 

[AaronDC]

I'm not close on pushing the speaker limits. My max is 94db at the listening position 15 feet away, so maybe 105db at 1 meter from the speakers? I forget the calc. In any case, I figured it's just how the Klipsch are, particularly the older ones that I have with the aluminum horns. Good idea on the EQ. I have Dirac Live on an NAD C628 preamp, so I'll try a correction if Dirac will let me. Any suggestion on a frequency and how many db's to try?

 

[ZolaIII]

Can you catch some response graphs from your listening position on different loudness level's (even doing it with phone will do for diagnostic purposes the usual normal 72~76, loud 86~90, very loud 96~100 dB)?
Do you use equal loudness normalization?
How big is the room really (in both surface and volume)?

 

[AaronDC]

Can you catch some response graphs from your listening position on different loudness level's (even doing it with phone will do for diagnostic purposes the usual normal 72~76, loud 86~90, very loud 96~100 dB)?
Do you use equal loudness normalization?
How big is the room really (in both surface and volume)?

-- I can check my NAD to see if I can do that with the included mic. I'll have to do that later. If not, what app would I use on my iPhone?
-- I do use loudness. I got a Yamaha A-S301 specifically because it has variable loudness.
-- It's a converted church. 19' x 40' x 15' vaulted ceiling at the peak. 8,000 cu ft.

 

[ZolaIII]

@AaronDC I don't know I use Spectroid on Android.
Think this will do but someone else will have to help you configure it.

‎Audio Spectrum Analyzer dB RTA

‎Spectrum Analyzer is full of fantastic advanced features you won’t find elsewhere easily! This app offers a fast and accurate spectrum analysis suitable for both amateur hi-fi enthusiasts and professional A/V engineers. This incredibly precise, pro level tool is perfect for tuning your home...

apps.apple.com

On what do you play? Can you play it on something that has it's own spectrum wave display for the source material? I use JRiver for example. So you use auto equl loudness normalization on Yamaha. Do you use R128 on the source if not try it out anyway when you get a chance.

 

[AaronDC]

@AaronDC I don't know I use Spectroid on Android.
Think this will do but someone else will have to help you configure it.

‎Audio Spectrum Analyzer dB RTA

‎Spectrum Analyzer is full of fantastic advanced features you won’t find elsewhere easily! This app offers a fast and accurate spectrum analysis suitable for both amateur hi-fi enthusiasts and professional A/V engineers. This incredibly precise, pro level tool is perfect for tuning your home...

apps.apple.com

On what do you play? Can you play it on something that has it's own spectrum wave display for the source material? I use JRiver for example. So you use auto equl loudness normalization on Yamaha. Do you use R128 on the source if not try it out anyway when you get a chance.

I stream Spotify via Spotify Connect on the NAD C628 which goes to the Yamaha A-S301 for amplification and manually adjusted loudness at low volumes and then out to the speakers from there. Spotify has a six-band equalizer if you dig deep enough on the iOS app. It's not very user friendly and although they have a pre-set loudness curve it's not a priority in the app and not easily adjustable. I might be able to find something for my phone or my MacBook. I could download REW if that would help.

 

[ZolaIII]

Puff regarding config of that app...
FFT size max, Logarithmic scale (as you want to observe lows and mids as accurate as it goes), for window smooth transform go with Lanczos, 1/3 octave and you want wave plots of course. I don't know if app uses any kind of hidden smoothing let's hope not. I also hope iPhone will be able to handle it if not cut TFT size in half and revert to less demanding window smooth transform.

Edit: Spotify app uses internally EBU R128 (option to turn it on/off) in a bit modified form as much as I remember but anyway it's not present when streaming to my Yamaha at least.

 

[AaronDC]

Puff regarding config of that app...
FFT size max, Logarithmic scale (as you want to observe lows and mids as accurate as it goes), for window smooth transform go with Lanczos, 1/3 octave and you want wave plots of course. I don't know if app uses any kind of hidden smoothing let's hope not. I also hope iPhone will be able to handle it if not cut TFT size in half and revert to less demanding window smooth transform.

Thanks. I'll take a look at this later. Looks like I have to learn a little here...

 

[ZolaIII]

What's NAD C628 output V to Yamaha? Use volume trim on Yamaha.

 

[Indy]

I had a pair of Klipsch Cornwall in the past in a open concept area, driven by a 100 watt amp. I could listen at high spl levels such that you couldn't hear somebody next to you speak and they were not harsh. The La Scala speakers should be even better. This was without any eq or room correction.

 

[Hipper]

-- It's a converted church. 19' x 40' x 15' vaulted ceiling at the peak. 8,000 cu ft.

Could this be the issue? As you up the sound levels reflections from all over the place start to cause the unpleasantness that you hear?

I understand churches were designed to enhance sound for singing. It may be that you should look at what systems churches employ when playing music. May be more careful positioning (perhaps more 'nearfield' to reduce the influence of reflections), room treatment (also at least to reduce reflections). I'm not sure that DSP/EQ could help so much.

 

[AaronDC]

Speaker position is limited to the room corners. I use Dirac to tone down room boom. There are a lot of complicated reflections everywhere in the room. It would be interesting to try them in an anechoic environment (like outside) to test the reflections idea. I also have some Mission M71s, which are normal bookshelf speakers and I'll put them in there and turn them up loud and see what happens. Nice ideas!