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Uncertainty about believes in Sound Quality of DAPs

leonidas

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I‘ve been a reader of this forum for some months and I am a strong believer in science.

Still, I keep questioning myself what is it all about in other Headphone forums praising the sound quality of some DAPs to heaven? Are they all wrong by stating DAP A sounds so great, much better than DAP B and how audiophile DAP C is?

For my IEMs I am currently using my iPhone 11 Pro with the Apple Lightning 3,5mm Dongle and it sounds all very good and as expected but I am missing an EQ like I am used to with my desktop RME Amp.

So I ordered a Qudelix 5k because it seems to be the most versatile dongle when it comes to EQ‘ing and it delivers much power in case I want to listen to my HD800s with it.

I compared the Apple Dongle with the Hidizs S8 which has such great measurements. I couldn’t here a difference to the Apple Dongle other than that the Hidizs distorted the sound while I used the Spotify equalizer. It was strange, the Apple Dongle doesn’t to this. The Hidizs was fine though without the EQ and in Apple Music and Tidal, as well. But I didn’t find it sonically any better than the Apple Dongle...

But I hate how I can’t get the above discussions out of my head on how much better expensive DAPs are.

BTW I was a short time owner of the Astell & Kern SE200 (I wanted to try it out). But the device broke after about 1h of use. The wifi module died and even full factory resets didn’t help. Then I sent it back for full refund. I listened to music with it briefly but in the very short time couldn‘t find anything special about the sound quality. An EQ was there but it seemed to be pretty awkward (not a nice 10 Band PEQ like with the Qudelix...).

Still I don‘t know if I would have been able to discover the magic after some days of use?

Can somebody clear my mind with reason, please? :)
 

Vincent Kars

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IMHO it is very simple, anything based on a sighted test is not a test.
It says a lot about the perception of the “reviewer” and hardly anything about the gear being tested.
Our ears transduce little difference in air pressure into a electrical stimulation of the brain.
There the interpretation starts and we do so with all we have in mind.
Basically we hear what we “believe”.

You believe in audiophile cables?
You will hear the difference the moment you see a normal cable replaced by a audiophile one.
That is how our brains work.
If you don’t see it (blinded test), you neutralize this expectation bias.
You are forced to do it with your ears only.
Very unlikely you will hear a difference because that is how cables work.

Basically we make all kind of attribution errors all of the time.
We attribute all kind of properties to objects, properties that only exist in our mind.
A simple but effective rule: if it is not based on measurements or rigorous blind testing , it is spurious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinded_experiment
A nice story why DBT (Double Blind Testing) is needed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans
A nice example of expectation bias, the discovery of the N-rays: https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200708/history.cfm
 

Sukie

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Can somebody clear my mind with reason, please? :)
When it comes to equipment, anything solid state at least, I like to get the whole word "audio" out of my mind. DACs, headphone amps, DAPs - it doesn't matter. Instead I think in terms of electrical devices. I think about what each device needs to do. If it's doing that (measurements are great in establishing this) then I'm happy. Anything else that I hear is down to headphones, speakers, equalising, room correction etc.. Or it might just been down to cognitive bias.

As soon as the word "audio" is used, so many people seem to believe that we've entered a realm of mysticism and magic. I see my audio equipment in exactly the same way that I see my kettle and toaster. It's got a job to do, I'd quite like it to look pretty (or, if not, then be tucked away in a corner), but there's no magic involved!

So my advice. Look at your DAP (or whatever) like you look at a kettle.
 
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leonidas

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This is the reason why I love science and this forum so much!

Thank you for your insights, Vincent and SJ!

The linked articles above helped me grounding myself and the kettle comparison is brilliant! I think I know now why I was originally so drawn into the DAP world and you mentioned it, SJ. They just look really nice, especially the A&Ks imo. But paying the crazy money on looks alone is not what I want to do. I think I tried to reason myself into the (expensive) DAP world in order to justify the big price for the nice look.

This was a lesson in psychology for me. Thank you, guys!

And btw Vincent - I definitely do not believe in cable sound :cool: ... still for a cable you see I am willing to pay about 10$/€ extra e.g. for nicer outer material than the usual black rubber.
 

Vincent Kars

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Only $10?

I spend a hell of a lot of money on beautiful objects.
In my case industrial design.
Great industrial design is “form follow function” and in practice it means forking out a hell of a lot of money for a beautiful object that doesn’t function at all.
But as it is about beauty, it is money squandered wisely.
 
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leonidas

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For cables yes. For other things maybe more, e.g. nice mechanical watches :)
 
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