UGreen Max5c: $25 NC Headphone Review

[Deckard01]

I noticed the Intel Bluetooth SDP Server drivers installed in your post in the other thread. I think these are old and can be removed, they may be causing the issue (they are not installed on my system which has an Intel Bluetooth chipset installed) - Maybe try disabling SDP driver first.

Another thing to try is removing old and unused devices with Device Cleanup Tool.

I think you men this driver right:

I disable but still the same. Do you think is safe to uninstall? Thanks a lot

 

[sulfuriq]

Sorry as I can not find out can you tell me please where this driver is located (Intel Bluetooth SDP Server drivers)?
View attachment 413935

Probably you can try this method from

Bluetooth incompatibility

I have a Lenovo C930 and a pair of Anker Soundbuds Slim+. The headphones worked fine with the out-of-the-box drivers on the laptop (version: 20.60.0.4, date: 4/5/2018). Any updates I tried since I got the laptop resulted in incompatibility with the headphones (they can no longer connect nor be...

community.intel.com

While this one I've got from Gemini AI

A conflict between an Intel Bluetooth driver and an "Alternative A2DP Driver" often occurs when trying to use a dedicated audio driver for better sound quality on your Bluetooth headphones, as the standard Intel Bluetooth driver might not provide the necessary customization options, leading to potential audio issues when the Alternative A2DP Driver is installed alongside it; this can manifest as audio glitches, dropouts, or inability to select the desired audio codec.
Key points about the conflict:
Driver Overlap:
Both drivers attempt to manage the same audio stream through the Bluetooth connection, causing conflicts and interference.
Compatibility Issues:
Sometimes, the Alternative A2DP driver might not be fully compatible with the specific Intel Bluetooth chipset, leading to instability.
How to resolve the conflict:
Uninstall Standard Driver:
Access Device Manager.
Expand "Bluetooth" and right-click on your Intel Bluetooth adapter.
Select "Uninstall device" and choose to "Delete the driver software for this device".
Restart your computer, allowing Windows to automatically reinstall the driver.
Install Alternative A2DP Driver:
Download the latest version of the Alternative A2DP driver from a trusted source.
Run the installer and follow the prompts.
In the driver settings, select your desired audio codec and quality settings.
Check for Updates:
Update your Intel Bluetooth drivers to the latest version from the Intel website.
Check for updates for the Alternative A2DP Driver as well.
Important Considerations:
Device Compatibility:
Ensure your Bluetooth device is compatible with the Alternative A2DP driver.
System Stability:
If you experience significant issues after installing the Alternative A2DP driver, consider reverting back to the standard Intel Bluetooth driver.

 

[Deckard01]

Probably you can try this method from

Bluetooth incompatibility

I have a Lenovo C930 and a pair of Anker Soundbuds Slim+. The headphones worked fine with the out-of-the-box drivers on the laptop (version: 20.60.0.4, date: 4/5/2018). Any updates I tried since I got the laptop resulted in incompatibility with the headphones (they can no longer connect nor be...

community.intel.com

While this one I've got from Gemini AI

A conflict between an Intel Bluetooth driver and an "Alternative A2DP Driver" often occurs when trying to use a dedicated audio driver for better sound quality on your Bluetooth headphones, as the standard Intel Bluetooth driver might not provide the necessary customization options, leading to potential audio issues when the Alternative A2DP Driver is installed alongside it; this can manifest as audio glitches, dropouts, or inability to select the desired audio codec.
Key points about the conflict:
Driver Overlap:
Both drivers attempt to manage the same audio stream through the Bluetooth connection, causing conflicts and interference.
Compatibility Issues:
Sometimes, the Alternative A2DP driver might not be fully compatible with the specific Intel Bluetooth chipset, leading to instability.
How to resolve the conflict:
Uninstall Standard Driver:
Access Device Manager.
Expand "Bluetooth" and right-click on your Intel Bluetooth adapter.
Select "Uninstall device" and choose to "Delete the driver software for this device".
Restart your computer, allowing Windows to automatically reinstall the driver.
Install Alternative A2DP Driver:
Download the latest version of the Alternative A2DP driver from a trusted source.
Run the installer and follow the prompts.
In the driver settings, select your desired audio codec and quality settings.
Check for Updates:
Update your Intel Bluetooth drivers to the latest version from the Intel website.
Check for updates for the Alternative A2DP Driver as well.
Important Considerations:
Device Compatibility:
Ensure your Bluetooth device is compatible with the Alternative A2DP driver.
System Stability:
If you experience significant issues after installing the Alternative A2DP driver, consider reverting back to the standard Intel Bluetooth driver.

So I need to uninstall that is located here right?

And download the latest one?

Sorry, for the question I have not done that before. Thanks

 

[sulfuriq]

Hope it works but if it not then try this

Uninstall the device and delete the driver (The Intel's Bluetooth driver) because it is still inside your system, when you restart your notebook it will reinstall back. After delete, restart Windows so Windows will install it's own driver. Then install the Alternative A2DP Driver.

Intel's Bluetooth Driver is the 3rd Party Driver, let the Windows 11 use it's own driver. You should only see these driver after the restart. After verify there is no Intel's Bluetooth driver in the Device Manager, then install. the Alternative A2DP Driver. Connect your Bluetooth device normally which it will be using the Windows Standard Driver. After that, open the Alternative A2DP Drive App, it should start with "Windows Standard Driver", choose "Alternative A2DP Driver" then Install.

I'm using USB TP-Link UB500 Bluetooth 5.3 Adapter which just Plug and Play because it using the Windows Standard Driver with no issue (It does not come with any Driver except for those who are still using Windows 7 need to download from their website).

 

[sulfuriq]

 

[Karmacoma]

@amirm the last PEQ does have a Q factor, I used 1.
If it is not then the score for your EQ is inaccurate.

Usually, BT SOCs provide plenty of EQ capabilities including Dynamic range compressors, therefore the tuning should represent the intent of the designers.

Here are some thoughts about the EQ.
Please report your findings, positive or negative!

Notes about the EQ design:

• The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
• The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
• A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
• The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve (and other constrains) with a fixed complexity.
  This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score, start your journey here or there.
  There is a presentation by S. Olive here.
  It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be therefore more neutral.
• The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF and maybe at HF).
• The range around and above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
• I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
• With some HP/amp combo, the boosts and preamp gain (loss of Dynamic range) need to be carefully considered to avoid issues with, amongst other things, too low a Max SPL or damaging your device. You have beed warned.
• Not all units of the same product are made equal. The EQ is based on the measurements of a single unit. YMMV with regard to the very unit you are trying this EQ on.
• I sometimes use variations of the Harman curve for some reasons. See rational here and here
• NOTE: the score then calculated is not comparable to the scores derived from the default Harman target curve if not otherwise noted

OK L/R match.

I have generated two EQs, the APO config files are attached.
For the price it could be a nice way to experiment with EQ etc.

Score no EQ: 66.6
Score Amirm: 89.1 (great effort)
Score with EQ: 99.1


View attachment 407913
Just for the sake of it I used Amirm's EQ as a starting point as it had most of the EQ points.
The issue is that the the score optimization requires the regression slope to be as close to 0 as possible therefore it decreased the LF to achieve this.
It probably not as good as the one above for most people for this reason, it illustrates the issue with solely optimizing for the score.

Score no EQ: 66.6
Score Amirm: 89.1
Score Amirm optimized: 100.9

View attachment 407911

Hello, is there a way to use these EQ files on wavelet?

 

[staticV3]

Hello, is there a way to use these EQ files on wavelet?

Not directly, but you can load Amir's frequency response measurement into https://autoeq.app/, and it'll generate a Wavelet preset to Harman.

 

[ZZdown]

I got some in USA from Walmart, UGREEN store. $30 + tax. They fluctuate to $32 every other week.

A quick first impression was like WOW, that's not $30 headphones. Or more like, my Shure AONIC 50 doesn't sound like $300 set...stay tuned for 3-way comparison in upcoming long flight (Max 5c, AONIC 50, Poly Voyager Surround 80)

 

[Deckard01]

Hope it works but if it not then try this

Uninstall the device and delete the driver (The Intel's Bluetooth driver) because it is still inside your system, when you restart your notebook it will reinstall back. After delete, restart Windows so Windows will install it's own driver. Then install the Alternative A2DP Driver.

Intel's Bluetooth Driver is the 3rd Party Driver, let the Windows 11 use it's own driver. You should only see these driver after the restart. After verify there is no Intel's Bluetooth driver in the Device Manager, then install. the Alternative A2DP Driver. Connect your Bluetooth device normally which it will be using the Windows Standard Driver. After that, open the Alternative A2DP Drive App, it should start with "Windows Standard Driver", choose "Alternative A2DP Driver" then Install.

View attachment 414049

I'm using USB TP-Link UB500 Bluetooth 5.3 Adapter which just Plug and Play because it using the Windows Standard Driver with no issue (It does not come with any Driver except for those who are still using Windows 7 need to download from their website).

View attachment 414052

Hello, thank you for the response.

Finally, It worked. As @sulfuriq said after many uninstall of the Intel Bluetooth finally my system left out of any Bluetooth in the Device Manager.

So to whom it may concern and face the same issues as me, here are the steps I follow.

1. Download the latest Intel Bluetooth Driver in a udb stick.
2. Uninstall Intel Wireless Bluetooth driver and unpair all devices, after that restart system, check in device manager if still exist. If yes keep delete and restart until any Bluetooth is visible in Device manager.
3. Then install the latest Bluetooth driver. In my system Intel Bluetooth driver is still visible and exist, but I do not know how mess the Windows OS is, but is working.

4. After that install A2DP, and connect through windows Bluetooth the tws device you need, and voila everything is working properly.

Thank you @sulfuriq and @Berwhale for the help!

 

[Deckard01]

@amirm the last PEQ does have a Q factor, I used 1.
If it is not then the score for your EQ is inaccurate.

Usually, BT SOCs provide plenty of EQ capabilities including Dynamic range compressors, therefore the tuning should represent the intent of the designers.

Here are some thoughts about the EQ.
Please report your findings, positive or negative!

Notes about the EQ design:

• The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
• The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
• A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
• The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve (and other constrains) with a fixed complexity.
  This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score, start your journey here or there.
  There is a presentation by S. Olive here.
  It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be therefore more neutral.
• The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF and maybe at HF).
• The range around and above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
• I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
• With some HP/amp combo, the boosts and preamp gain (loss of Dynamic range) need to be carefully considered to avoid issues with, amongst other things, too low a Max SPL or damaging your device. You have beed warned.
• Not all units of the same product are made equal. The EQ is based on the measurements of a single unit. YMMV with regard to the very unit you are trying this EQ on.
• I sometimes use variations of the Harman curve for some reasons. See rational here and here
• NOTE: the score then calculated is not comparable to the scores derived from the default Harman target curve if not otherwise noted

OK L/R match.

I have generated two EQs, the APO config files are attached.
For the price it could be a nice way to experiment with EQ etc.

Score no EQ: 66.6
Score Amirm: 89.1 (great effort)
Score with EQ: 99.1


View attachment 407913
Just for the sake of it I used Amirm's EQ as a starting point as it had most of the EQ points.
The issue is that the the score optimization requires the regression slope to be as close to 0 as possible therefore it decreased the LF to achieve this.
It probably not as good as the one above for most people for this reason, it illustrates the issue with solely optimizing for the score.

Score no EQ: 66.6
Score Amirm: 89.1
Score Amirm optimized: 100.9

View attachment 407911

These two attached EQ can be imported as it is to Peace? Also as I am not so expert can explain me please what is the difference of these two EQ profiles? And the difference of these two EQ's with Amir. Thanks

 

[erniebert]

Thanks for this review, @amirm! It's offered on Flash Sale till midnight tonight in Shopee Philippines with discount and free shipping vouchers for ₱1019.00. That's ~$17.34. Need to summon the courage to nudge the wife to buy it for me.

 

[Carlo2AC]

Hence the emphasis on 25$. How much would you be ready to pay for a new battery? I'm curious

I can easily find batteries bellow 5U$

And since I like to take care of my stuff, use it for years, i still got my old Yamaha from decades ago as an example, $25 or $2500 it doesn't matter…

I strongly dislike this way of thinking, "Whatever, it's just $25, just buy another one"

 

[Deckard01]

Has any owner found replacements pads for Max5c?

 

[Arylar]

It may be a stupid question, but please forgive a newbie that loves good music but is too broke to try many audio equipment.
I'm debating if I should buy this headphone or a more traditional cabled one. I like the possibility to use it wireless, but sound quality is paramount and I would probably use it most often with external amplifiers or usb dongle.

Do you think the sound quality of this one is at least comparable to an akg K371, a Philips fidelio X2HR or even just a superlux hd672?
Those are the main alternatives I can find with my budget, looking also at the used market of course.

 

[sulfuriq]

It may be a stupid question, but please forgive a newbie that loves good music but is too broke to try many audio equipment.
I'm debating if I should buy this headphone or a more traditional cabled one. I like the possibility to use it wireless, but sound quality is paramount and I would probably use it most often with external amplifiers or usb dongle.

Do you think the sound quality of this one is at least comparable to an akg K371, a Philips fidelio X2HR or even just a superlux hd672?
Those are the main alternatives I can find with my budget, looking also at the used market of course.

If you want wired and wireless and probably keep changing headphones in the future, why not invest in Bluetooth dongle like Fiio BTR5 or ifi GO Blu if sound quality is important to you since you can use any headphones or iems on it.

 

[Arylar]

If you want wired and wireless and probably keep changing headphones in the future, why not invest in Bluetooth dongle like Fiio BTR5 or ifi GO Blu if sound quality is important to you since you can use any headphones or iems on it.

That's a good idea, I guess it means that the sound quality of cabled headphones is still superior to even the good by ones, like this ugreen or the more expensive Sony wh-1000xm?
This is what I'm trying to understand, if cabled is still superior to bt in a comparable price range.

 

[sulfuriq]

That's a good idea, I guess it means that the sound quality of cabled headphones is still superior to even the good by ones, like this ugreen or the more expensive Sony wh-1000xm?
This is what I'm trying to understand, if cabled is still superior to bt in a comparable price range.

Probably due to the limitation of space as they need to put in the radio chip, battery, dac and amp on the cup compare with the wired. If you can find a used Digital Audio Player like Hiby R4, it would be a good starting point to begin your journey in the audio world.

 

[Weeb Labs]

That's a good idea, I guess it means that the sound quality of cabled headphones is still superior to even the good by ones, like this ugreen or the more expensive Sony wh-1000xm?
This is what I'm trying to understand, if cabled is still superior to bt in a comparable price range.

In principle, a $25 Bluetooth headphone with onboard DSP (most of them) can track the Harman target more accurately than a passive headphone at the same price point. In practice, while this is the case for the UGreen Max5c there exists no shortage of $25 Bluetooth headphones which completely fail to track the Harman target because the manufacturer has not implemented the correct equalization.

TL;DR: The most well behaved $25 Bluetooth headphone will outperform the most well behaved $25 passive headphone.

 

[Arylar]

In principle, a $25 Bluetooth headphone with onboard DSP (most of them) can track the Harman target more accurately than a passive headphone at the same price point. In practice, while this is the case for the UGreen Max5c there exists no shortage of $25 Bluetooth headphones which completely fail to track the Harman target because the manufacturer has not implemented the correct equalization.

TL;DR: The most well behaved $25 Bluetooth headphone will outperform the most well behaved $25 passive headphone.

I guess the real point is trying to understand how many passive headphones would be outperformed by this one, and until what pricepoint.

 

[Maehaq7]

If you change the equalizer on app and connect to PC wired will the equalizer settings be saved or will it default to bass mode ?