UAD Twin X

[JCL-]

I posted this here because of the subject matter. If it's better suited to the newbie forum, mods please move.

Background info:

I'm new to the world of audio interfaces and have been doing a bit of research. I've long wanted to get back into music (made a living in bands in my younger years) and find myself at a point in life where I'll have the time.

I'm very technically adept, build my own computers and build, configure and administer my own networks in my business.

All my systems and experience are in the PC realm. I guess I could build or buy a Mac machine, but I'd much rather stay with PC.

My 'needs' are to be able to record guitar, keyboards, bass, vocals etc into my computer, along with the 'instruments available in and for the given interface.

Decent quality is a must.

The reason for this post is that I'm unsure of what equip/devices I might need. I've been eyeing the UA Apollo Twin X Duo Heritage. Seems like a great interface, albeit with problems, i.e., proprietary plugins and USB driver issues in the windows environment and is compatible with Luna (which seems to be a great DAW.

The Apollo Twin X DUO Thunderbolt also seems to have its compatibility problems, as is heard around the internet.

This UAD forum thread is ongoing and concerns these issues:

Apollo Working Thunderbolt Setups on Windows with UAD v9 or later

As of UAD v9 Official Thunderbolt Support has been added for Windows 10 systems with specific configurations! See the details here - https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/215731443-Apollo-Thunderbolt-Windows-Compatibility Users are also posting success stories with various other...

uadforum.com

So the information I'm looking for is:

1. Audio Interface recommendation and/or comments on the TwinX

2. What else I might need (complete novice on interfaces) and their purpose (i.e., pre-amp?)

3. Addressing what I probably don't know that I don't know, i.e., the questions I don't know to ask.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Welcome to ASR as you appear to be a new member.

Amir who runs the forum has reviewed the Twin X here:

Universal Audio Apollo Twin X Review (Audio Interface)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the UA Twin X Quad (also comes in Duo). It was kingly sent to me by the company for testing. The Quad version as I have costs US $1,400. The Duo version is cheaper. This designation refers to the number of cores for internal DSP which performs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I don't think he has reviewed an Apollo, but a good source for reviews on audio interfaces is Julian Krause's youtube channel. He looks further into the mic preamps and such than Amir does.

Unless the plug in emulations are important you might consider some other devices. The Apollo is a good bit of kit, and the company is mainly oriented toward Macs.

A Motu M2 or M4 will give similar basic performance though without all the emulation capability.

Motu M4 Audio Interface Review

This is a review of Motu M4 4x4 audio interface (DAC and ADC). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $220. The enclosure is heavy gauge metal and sturdy: The front inputs are for microphones with higher gain. For my testing I used the Line in (and out) in the back: For testing I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

There is also RME like a Babyface Pro FS. RME makes their software supported better than any other company and also make good hardware. It has some capabilities beyond simple recording, but not the emulations.

RME Babyface Pro FS Portable Interface Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the RME Babyface Pro FS Portable professional audio interface (ADC, DAC, headphone and digital I/O). It was kindly sent to me by the company. The Babyface Pro FS Costs US $899. It is an upgrade to the non-FS version of the same product. The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Things to watch out for are that some interfaces share line, mic, and guitar inputs (instrument in) so you can only do one thing at a time with each input. Some don't. Look over the info and ask some more questions I'd suggest.

 

[JCL-]

Hi Blumlein. Thanks for your comments and links. Yes, new member and a newbie to AIs.

Most of the comments to the review thread are beyond my purview at present.

I think that the plug in emulations are important for me? My primary instrument is guitar (Fender Strat), and I hope to achieve several specific sounds of favorite artists, such as Pink Floyd and others. Are plugins not available in most other interfaces?

I have run across the BabyFace in my 'research'.

My apologies for my lack of knowledge and thanks for your patience. I'm ready to take the plunge. I learn a lot through asking questions and using the product, but I want to be sure that what I buy meets my needs (and beyond), and also that I'm aware of anything else I might need to purchase to get started besides the interface.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Some interfaces have plug ins and emulations. I have an Antelope audio Zen Tour that has quite a few. UADs are considered the benchmark for well done emulations however. You can get plug ins for DAWs that also do emulation so it doesn't matter what the interface is. It just cannot do that real time though it may do it with low enough latency. Doing it in the Apollo also takes that load off the computer you are using.

So of course you'll need microphones and cables. Microphones are a whole world in itself. Cables are easy as you need nothing exotic. You also will want to treat the room you use acoustically for the vocals. So keep some money back for that.

 

[Blumlein 88]

A few other thoughts. Despite claims and how it may seem, from somewhere around $300 to up around $1500 the basic quality of the mic preamps, ADCs, DACs and analog outputs don't vary all that much. Fortunately nearly all are of pretty high quality. There is more variability between instrument inputs, but not being a guitarist I cannot give great info on that. I think the variability is mostly how some overload too easily.

So making a choice comes down to what inputs and outputs do you need, is the software interface good, is the software maintained and reliable, and then what on board DSP is included.

What happened to me and often happens is until I started using the gear I didn't realize what I liked, needed etc. So I might suggest looking around for a 2nd hand Focusrite 2i2 in 2nd or 3rd generation. The current generation is the 4th, but drivers are still maintained on earlier units. Maybe on Facebook market place or eBay or such. They are not great, but not too bad. You can pick one up for less than $100, and likely sell it for what you paid later. It will let you learn a bit more about what you really want to do with it. It also is simple without too many frills so you'll learn without the complication of other stuff which will be valuable even with more capable gear later.

They usually came with a basic Ableton Lite DAW, and sometimes some DAW plug ins. Even if they don't I might suggest Reaper. You can download it and use for free to evaluate it. It is quite capable, you can add plug ins, and it comes already with quite a bit of processing capability built in. If you keep it, you should purchase a copy, which is quite inexpensive considering what it can do. $60 for a non-commercial version.

REAPER | Audio Production Without Limits

 

[DVDdoug]

There aren't many interfaces that support plug-ins. And as Blumlein 88 says, if you run a plug-in in your DAW (or simply monitor through the computer) you can end-up fighting latency (delay).

There is ALWAYS SOME latency through the computer because the operating system is always multitasking & interrupting, even if you're only running one application. There are buffers that allow the digital audio to flow smoothly in-and-out but a buffer is also a delay. Frequently you can get the latency down to where it's unnoticeable, but sometimes it's a pain!

I usually recommend an interface with direct-hardware zero-latency monitoring (a common feature) but that means no effects in the monitoring chain unless they are built into the interface.

I'm not a guitar player but I believe there are Boss "pedals" with amp/cabinet simulation (and other built-in effects) and that also double as an interface for recording. But I don't believe they run actual plug-ins.

What else I might need (complete novice on interfaces) and their purpose (i.e., pre-amp?)

The interface will have a built-in mic preamp. Frequently, there is a combo jack that can accept an XLR microphone connection or a 1/4-inch guitar-instrument plug with different low & high impedance internal connections.

Of course, you want as many inputs as you need to record simultaneously.

 

[JCL-]

Hi, it's been one of those weeks and I'm just getting back to this. I appreciate the comments posted...some good information there.

@Blumlein 88 : Your idea of buying lower end to gain an understanding of what might be needed/desired is a good one. I think I'll give that a shot, but mostly to get my feet wet. Both you and @DVDdoug comments give me the impression that the TwinX interface is what I'm looking for, given its plugins and onboard processing.

And I'm of the same cloth regarding hands-on learning and discovering what best suits my purposes. The biggest drawback for me is the problems with using the UA interface in a windows environment.

I do have a few more questions regarding Twinx Duo or Quad:

I'm not completely averse to buying a Mac for this. I'm sure I'd find other uses for it as well, albeit the drawback is non-compatible in my windows networks. But I'd likely have to build a newer PC and jump through hoops to make the Twinx work (if at all).

Apple Mac Studio has been suggested as a best choice for for an apollo set up. Do y'all agree with this? I've noticed that the latest iteration is the M4 Max, which supports TB5.

• Is the Mac M4 Max/TB5 compatible with the TwinX (I've heard TwinX likes TB3)?
• 
  
• Is there a previous Mac Studio that, whilst less powerful will still be enough for the TwinX (assuming that it would perform as well)?

Is there a cheaper Mac machine that will easily and well meet TwinX requirements?

Again. thanks for your inputs.

​

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't think the TwinX will tax your machine. That is one of the advantages of on board DSP with the Apollo. Whether you need a beefy machine is dependent upon what you do with it. Are you planning on running lots of processing on 12 or more channels or just a few channels?

The Apollo gear has TB 3 on its interfaces. TB4 and TB5 are backwards compatible to TB 3. I've used an Apollo Arrow (same as the Solo they just changed the name) with a Mac Mini M4 which has TB 4. Works fine. So you don't necessarily need a Mac Studio for this, it will be connecting at TB 3 speeds either way. I do think the Apollo gear is either Mac or either Windows, but not both on some models. So you need to figure that out for certain. The way I think it works if you order a Thunderbolt Apollo for Macs and a USB Apollo for Windows. They do make a card for your Windows PC for Thunderbolt 3 for Windows I think. Also Macs are not going to be incompatible with a Windows network. They'll network fine.

I've used Mac and the Apollo Arrow with Reaper so that works fine. I think the M4 Mini is plenty powerful again unless you end up trying to run everything in the book at once on lots of channels. I wonder if it makes sense to try and learn a new OS and a new interface concurrently. It might be simpler to order a USB version and stick with Windows if that is what you know.


PS a fellow just listed some Apollo gear for sale. Don't know the guy apparently in the Chicago area, but will ship.

SOLD Universal Audio Twin X DUO Heritage / x4 Heritage

Selling a few interfaces - I had planned to do a multichannel room correction setup w/ Audiolense but I don't think I'll ever get around to it. I tried out the x4 briefly, but the DUO and x6 are open box. x6 - SOLD x4 Heritage - $1000 Duo Heritage - $650 Will ship anywhere, paypal is probably...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[JCL-]

Thanks for the additional info, Blumlein. I'm not familiar at all with Mac, so not sure what specs are suited. I also keep reading about latency being an issue for some, so want to be sure to buy with that in mind.

The reason I'm considering Mac is that I read that the Windows USB version has compatibility/driver issues in windows. But it's been several months since I looked into it. Also, as per the thread I linked to in my OP, using the Mac TB version apollo in windows even with a TB card is problematic and very finicky even now.

I guess I'll need to start over and research again. Several months is an eternity for technology.

I'm surprised by how small the Mac systems are. Good to know I wouldn't have to shell out 2K for the studio. The mini is very affordable, but if I end up going with Mac, I would probably spring for a bit more to allow for overhead. I find it a principle that when I buy just for my current needs, I end up buying high end sooner or later anyway.

That said, I hope my research will reveal that the USB version has ironed out the kinks.

Again, thanks for your help. Things are moving slow at present because I have my hands full selling my business and making life changes, but I hope to get my researching done within the next few months. I may be back here asking more questions. I appreciate the knowledgeable responses.

 

[JCL-]

I did end up getting an Apollo Twin X Quad (Gen 2) and a mac mini M4 (pro). Absolutely no issues. Works amazingly well and for my limited usage, no lag whatsoever.

Just wanted to say thanks for the info and help.