Typical lifespan of actives v passives?

[richard12511]

Ive only been at this hobby for 15 years, but so far I’ve had 2 passive speakers fail(amp clipping/ too much power), 0 active speakers fail, and 1 active subwoofer fail. The passives were an Infinity Beta 50 and Revel M105. The active sub was a 10” Dayton sub. For my usages(sometimes playing at reference/live levels), actives seem to be more reliable than passives, since they protect themselves from damage, and driver/coil damage is more likely than amp failure. My oldest speakers are currently cheap actives.

 

[YSC]

Ive only been at this hobby for 15 years, but so far I’ve had 2 passive speakers fail(amp clipping/ too much power), 0 active speakers fail, and 1 active subwoofer fail. The passives were an Infinity Beta 50 and Revel M105. The active sub was a 10” Dayton sub. For my usages(sometimes playing at reference/live levels), actives seem to be more reliable than passives, since they protect themselves from damage, and driver/coil damage is more likely than amp failure. My oldest speakers are currently cheap actives.

That is quite a high failure rate.... maybe due to level of use

All my old ones are given to friends or parents due to Gear Acquisition Syndrome, never have one gone with my use since high school (~20 years), oldest one is Altec Lansing 5.1 computer speakers though, the 10 years Fostex PM 0.4 still works and the 6 years old KEF X300A also, genelecs are less than a year so if they fail I will be surprised..

Level wise since HK is a place with really small rooms, I basically operate all my speakers at their lowest power through the knobs of their own pot or stepped attenuator and then use max power from windows. Maybe this low volume use helped

 

[linger63]

My ATC 25th Anniversary SCM70ASL actives came with a 6 year warranty..........

It ran out in 2005.........

I still haven't had to touch them.

 

[kjb]

Running my Linkwitz lx521.4 active. And the other day one of the 2 year old hypex nc502mp module went dead.. Dont know why it died, it was not touched or abused in any way. And I though hypex supposed to have decent quality... The amplifier have 8 channels in total, 4 hypex modules. Guess I will have to exchange the module. Really wasteful in my mind.. So had this been built together with the amp in the box as most active speakers are made, it would be really expensive to fix. So how about all those cheap active speakers that gets reviewed on asr. When they fail, who will fix them? not many. Passive speakers of good quality can last much longer than most modern amps.

 

[redshift]

Try driving an Audi.

$400 "book rate" to change one headlamp bulb.

Step one : remove engine

It’s no wonder old fossil burners (70’s, 80’s) with low mileage in mint condition sport ridiculous prices these days.

 

[redshift]

Running my Linkwitz lx521.4 active. And the other day one of the 2 year old hypex nc502mp module went dead.. Dont know why it died, it was not touched or abused in any way. And I though hypex supposed to have decent quality... The amplifier have 8 channels in total, 4 hypex modules. Guess I will have to exchange the module. Really wasteful in my mind.. So had this been built together with the amp in the box as most active speakers are made, it would be really expensive to fix. So how about all those cheap active speakers that gets reviewed on asr. When they fail, who will fix them? not many. Passive speakers of good quality can last much longer than most modern amps.

Blown caps? Check if they bulge. If electronics survive the first couple of years, they’ll likely last long.

 

[YSC]

Running my Linkwitz lx521.4 active. And the other day one of the 2 year old hypex nc502mp module went dead.. Dont know why it died, it was not touched or abused in any way. And I though hypex supposed to have decent quality... The amplifier have 8 channels in total, 4 hypex modules. Guess I will have to exchange the module. Really wasteful in my mind.. So had this been built together with the amp in the box as most active speakers are made, it would be really expensive to fix. So how about all those cheap active speakers that gets reviewed on asr. When they fail, who will fix them? not many. Passive speakers of good quality can last much longer than most modern amps.

Not sure about what’s the failure rate of hyped, but in 2 years I think almost all cheapo actives are still within warranty and will be fixed

 

[kjb]

Not sure about what’s the failure rate of hyped, but in 2 years I think almost all cheapo actives are still within warranty and will be fixed

2 years is the usual warranty period in EU. But still one would expect it to last much longer. What if the amp dies in 2.5 years.. Electronics should be built to last at least 10 years of normal usage. Or rather the double. I would pay more knowing amps would be designed for longer life.

Btw I have not seen any bulging caps. I hope Tibor at @Apollon Audio will answer my mail regarding this. Enough OT from me.

 

[YSC]

2 years is the usual warranty period in EU. But still one would expect it to last much longer. What if the amp dies in 2.5 years.. Electronics should be built to last at least 10 years of normal usage. Or rather the double. I would pay more knowing amps would be designed for longer life.

Btw I have not seen any bulging caps. I hope Tibor at @Apollon Audio will answer my mail regarding this. Enough OT from me.

Right, I think most ppl would want to have something lives longer than warranty and not die right after the end of period (looking at you Sony, my PS3 and PS4 all died within 10 days after warranty, how coincidental), but in that sense I would look at external amp box as a whole also, outlier in electronics always occurs but what matters are overall stats of how reliable a brand is, not simply active vs passive, and how well they honor their product and have "good will" repair or even replace, or at least some discount trade in stuffs.

 

[redshift]

Right, I think most ppl would want to have something lives longer than warranty and not die right after the end of period (looking at you Sony, my PS3 and PS4 all died within 10 days after warranty, how coincidental), but in that sense I would look at external amp box as a whole also, outlier in electronics always occurs but what matters are overall stats of how reliable a brand is, not simply active vs passive, and how well they honor their product and have "good will" repair or even replace, or at least some discount trade in stuffs.

Shit cooling and thermal stresses makes the BGA chips/solder balls “pop” loose. Gear with more thermal capacity/mass will lessen the stress as it can soak more heat with a slower, more even, temperature increase.

It is normally not the temps that kills electronics, but rather temperature fluctuations. A gaming console and integrated plate amps with low thermal mass surely must be among the worst in self destruction.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Running my Linkwitz lx521.4 active. And the other day one of the 2 year old hypex nc502mp module went dead.. Dont know why it died, it was not touched or abused in any way. And I though hypex supposed to have decent quality... The amplifier have 8 channels in total, 4 hypex modules. Guess I will have to exchange the module. Really wasteful in my mind.. So had this been built together with the amp in the box as most active speakers are made, it would be really expensive to fix. So how about all those cheap active speakers that gets reviewed on asr. When they fail, who will fix them? not many. Passive speakers of good quality can last much longer than most modern amps.

Hypex has a pretty generous warranty policy, I would contact the manufacturer of your amp, perhaps they can send you a new module.

 

[YSC]

Shit cooling and thermal stresses makes the BGA chips/solder balls “pop” loose. Gear with more thermal capacity/mass will lessen the stress as it can soak more heat with a slower, more even, temperature increase.

It is normally not the temps that kills electronics, but rather temperature fluctuations. A gaming console and integrated plate amps with low thermal mass surely must be among the worst in self destruction.

If same level of attention is payed, yes, the external, bigger box with larger heatsinks should live longer in general, but here we are talking about a huge variation between external amps vs all in house designed actives, where in house one could apply massive heatsinks sticking out at the back, or even use the metal housing as heat sinking... whereas quite some external ones have poor ventilation or thermal management, a huge difference

 

[redshift]

If same level of attention is payed, yes, the external, bigger box with larger heatsinks should live longer in general, but here we are talking about a huge variation between external amps vs all in house designed actives, where in house one could apply massive heatsinks sticking out at the back, or even use the metal housing as heat sinking... whereas quite some external ones have poor ventilation or thermal management, a huge difference

My PC CPU coolers weigh more than most corporate laptops. I haven’t had a workstation tower PC fail on me due to thermals, like, ever.

I guess the old saying for amps still holds. Buy them based on how much they weigh, unless they are absurdly energy efficient (like mobile phones), which none are.

For audio gear I’d likely choose products with more thermal mass than active designs with (silent) temperature controlled fans.

 

[YSC]

My PC CPU coolers weigh more than most corporate laptops. I haven’t had a workstation tower PC fail on me due to thermals, like, ever.

I guess the old saying for amps still holds. Buy them based on how much they weigh, unless they are absurdly energy efficient (like mobile phones), which none are.

For audio gear I’d likely choose products with more thermal mass than active designs with (silent) temperature controlled fans.

that's fair enough, personally I think this holds true for floor standers, as their use case require high wattage, but not so much for stand mount or bookshelf speakers, as for power amps, most of them are rated for multi hundred Ws if not over 1000W of power, which will require a lot more heat sinking, and most actives only go 50-70W max rated, and usually limited below that wattage, which in the first place creates a lot less heat to be dissipated, unlike tower PC comparing to some powerful gaming laptop where their heat generation is much less different than their heat sinking capability. to me it feels more like laptop PC vs phones, where despite the battery issue their chip lifetime don't seems to be different

 

[redshift]

that's fair enough, personally I think this holds true for floor standers, as their use case require high wattage, but not so much for stand mount or bookshelf speakers, as for power amps, most of them are rated for multi hundred Ws if not over 1000W of power, which will require a lot more heat sinking, and most actives only go 50-70W max rated, and usually limited below that wattage, which in the first place creates a lot less heat to be dissipated, unlike tower PC comparing to some powerful gaming laptop where their heat generation is much less different than their heat sinking capability. to me it feels more like laptop PC vs phones, where despite the battery issue their chip lifetime don't seems to be different

Laptops usually have less efficient x64 IA/AMD chips and instruction sets, run Win 10 which is a power hog combo as compared with the latest TSMC manufactured semiconductor shiz with 3nm patterns ARM SOC’a in the iPhone (or newer MacBooks with ARM chips) of yours that can be on standby for a week.

Once you start jacking up the volume on your actives the temperature will increase. The rate of that increase is likely what kills it due to thermal stresses.

A Class D (active speaker) should be heat sinked (or thermal “massed”) on the back. A hyper efficient linear Class G/H design (PSI) likely can have a quite flimsy back plate, if anything at all, as long as it is evenly toasty across the entire PCBA.

 

[YSC]

Laptops usually have less efficient x64 IA/AMD chips and instruction sets, run Win 10 which is a power hog combo as compared with the latest TSMC manufactured semiconductor shiz with 3nm patterns ARM SOC’a in the iPhone (or newer MacBooks with ARM chips) of yours that can be on standby for a week.

Once you start jacking up the volume on your actives the temperature will increase. The rate of that increase is likely what kills it due to thermal stresses.

A Class D (active speaker) should be heat sinked (or thermal “massed”) on the back. A hyper efficient linear Class G/H design (PSI) likely can have a quite flimsy back plate, if anything at all, as long as it is evenly toasty across the entire PCBA.

I think most actives do have a metal backplate somehow heat sinked to the amp board... not to say the hotter class AB amps used are usually done with extra heat sink with large fins somehow can be larger than the external amp boxes (e.g. for the class D VTV purifi amp reviewed here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...er-review-with-weiss-buffer.24887/post-843406) internally it have no heatsinking whatsoever visible also, and with no active fan I doubt the massive and heavy case would make it live any longer than the same module heatsinked inside the active speaker attached to a metal backplate

 

[redshift]

I think most actives do have a metal backplate somehow heat sinked to the amp board... not to say the hotter class AB amps used are usually done with extra heat sink with large fins somehow can be larger than the external amp boxes (e.g. for the class D VTV purifi amp reviewed here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...er-review-with-weiss-buffer.24887/post-843406) internally it have no heatsinking whatsoever visible also, and with no active fan I doubt the massive and heavy case would make it live any longer than the same module heatsinked inside the active speaker attached to a metal backplate

Yeah, what’s the point of a massive chassis if the power FET’s, caps and inductors isn’t thermally connected to it?

For an >100W Class D with a 5mm aluminum back plate would do just fine assuming proper thermal coupling internally.

 

[Ultrasonic]

What I don't get is paying for an integrated amp that uses software-driven streaming, which is based on standards, operating systems, and security protocols that will become obsolete in about 15 minutes. The software will become unsustainable long before the hardware in most cases, and that drives me nuts.

For me an important factor would be if the unit could still be used as a conventional integrated amplifier even if the streaming software was no longer supported. Provided it will be this is not so bad.

 

[YSC]

Yeah, what’s the point of a massive chassis if the power FET’s, caps and inductors isn’t thermally connected to it?

For an >100W Class D with a 5mm aluminum back plate would do just fine assuming proper thermal coupling internally.

exactly, that's why IRL I believe the class D amps or chip amps inside the actives won't live significantly shorter than a modern power amp, if you chose the correct brand, both live a long time, if you chose those landmines, they will die prematurely anyway

 

[redshift]

For me an important factor would be if the unit could still be used as a conventional integrated amplifier even if the streaming software was no longer supported. Provided it will be this is not so bad.

Assuming Airplay and Chromecast will be backwards compatible like Bluetooth and WiFi, I’m good.

Fuck those crusty apps.