Typical lifespan of actives v passives?

[YSC]

I have had three (3) different active subwoofers die (JBL, EV, and ACI). All three had blown plate amps, and identical dimension replacement plate amps were NOT available from the OEM. I did find replacement plate amps from Parts Express but they each had a different dimension plate than their predecessor, resulting in extensive modification that would have binned those subs for most people, but as I have access to sheet metal working facilities I was able to fabricate “filler plates” to make the replacement plate amps fully fit the holes left by the dead plate amps. The EV plate amp took out its woofer as well, so I needed to replace that one woofer as well. The worst part is that the sub cabinets are in general fragile particle board/mdf cubes. Just unscrewing and removing the bad plate amp takes its toll on the wood byproduct cabinet, let alone the redrilling for the replacement plate amp’s different hole pattern, and the fabricated filler plate. Gobs of silicone sealant helped this time, but will hinder the next replacement(s).

tthat sounds really bad, may I ask how long approximately died from use? say, 2-3 years or 5-6 years each? and were they expensive ones?

 

[rdenney]

tthat sounds really bad, may I ask how long approximately died from use? say, 2-3 years or 5-6 years each? and were they expensive ones?

And also describe the use case. For amps to die this regularly, they must be driven pretty hard.

My one active sub (a cheapie Boston Acoustics) is at least 15 years old and works fine, but it’s on my TV system and if I turn it up too much the wife complains

Rick “Elmer’s glue in the screw holes will harden them” Denney

 

[YSC]

And also describe the use case. For amps to die this regularly, they must be driven pretty hard.

My one active sub (a cheapie Boston Acoustics) is at least 15 years old and works fine, but it’s on my TV system and if I turn it up too much the wife complains

Rick “Elmer’s glue in the screw holes will harden them” Denney

but somehow I think that poorer local mains power surge could also contribute a lot to the death of caps or chip amps etc. high current needed for subs plus not so stable mains is a killer combo

 

[Trell]

Rick “Elmer’s glue in the screw holes will harden them” Denney

What/who is Elmer?

 

[NTK]

What/who is Elmer?

 

[rdenney]

Elmer's Glue--plain white glue.

Rick "Google is your friend" Denney

 

[Trell]

Elmer's Glue--plain white glue.

Rick "Google is your friend" Denney

 

[antennaguru]

tthat sounds really bad, may I ask how long approximately died from use? say, 2-3 years or 5-6 years each? and were they expensive ones?

Around 5 years old each and all 3 on different systems that were not driven hard. All 3 were from good reputable companies: JBL, ElectroVoice, and ACI which is a direct mail order company with free in-home trial. The ACI sub cost around $1400 and was the most expensive (and with no dealer markup). The 3 plate amps failed with no visible bad components, they just stopped working. 2 of them had an auto turn-on sensing circuit which probably went bad.

Maybe the industry should move towards a standardized plate size and hole pattern for plate amps, as they are obviously a failure point and with so many different and unique dimension plates they are not as easy to replace as they could be. Because of this experience with active subs I will NEVER buy active main speakers.

 

[YSC]

Around 5 years old each and all 3 on different systems that were not driven hard. All 3 were from good reputable companies: JBL, ElectroVoice, and ACI which is a direct mail order company with free in-home trial. The ACI sub cost around $1400 and was the most expensive (and with no dealer markup). The 3 plate amps failed with no visible bad components, they just stopped working. 2 of them had an auto turn-on sensing circuit which probably went bad.

Maybe the industry should move towards a standardized plate size and hole pattern for plate amps, as they are obviously a failure point and with so many different and unique dimension plates they are not as easy to replace as they could be. Because of this experience with active subs I will NEVER buy active main speakers.

That's sad, and somehow I now understand the value of some reputable brands promotional material have specifically mentioned about extensive spare parts to repair their own products in 10-20 years

 

[Paulz]

Oh. My. There goes my newly found comfort zone lol!

 

[rdenney]

That's sad, and somehow I now understand the value of some reputable brands promotional material have specifically mentioned about extensive spare parts to repair their own products in 10-20 years

One of the problems with the way electronic circuits are made these days is that spare parts are assemblies rather than components. Thus, manufacturers have to stock up on spares at production time, and can't count on being able to produce more assemblies in the future at any reasonable cost. Those big corporations, however, have COO's that see that static inventory of expensive parts assemblies and go nuts. So, they define the stock they need for handling warranty repairs only, and that's based on an assumption of reliability.

That's one reason the 70's stuff is actually more maintainable than the latest stuff--I just restored a late-70's Teac open-reel tape deck, and was able to replace a transistor and several capacitors from my junk box, or from parts readily available on the internet. Forget being able to do that with equipment using proprietary integrated circuits, surface-mount components, and software-driven functionality. The physical machinery of that open-reel deck would be extremely expensive to manufacture today to the same standard, so being able to sustain the electronics is really useful.

For actives with software-driven crossover equalization (which is all of them these days), this will be a problem. But it's also a problem for separate amps, and especially for the currently popular integrated amps. What I don't get is paying for an integrated amp that uses software-driven streaming, which is based on standards, operating systems, and security protocols that will become obsolete in about 15 minutes. The software will become unsustainable long before the hardware in most cases, and that drives me nuts.

Rick "who hates filling landfills with big things made unusable because of little things" Denney

 

[antennaguru]

Haven’t we learned from automobiles that software is stupid to include in hardware? Most people have “Check Engine” OBD history because their gas cap wasn’t put on tight enough - which is just plain stupid to have to visit the dealer to reset.

 

[rdenney]

Haven’t we learned from automobiles that software is stupid to include in hardware? Most people have “Check Engine” OBD history because their gas cap wasn’t put on tight enough - which is just plain stupid to have to visit the dealer to reset.

Apparently we have not learned that.

Rick "still sees embedded software everywhere" Denney

 

[YSC]

One of the problems with the way electronic circuits are made these days is that spare parts are assemblies rather than components. Thus, manufacturers have to stock up on spares at production time, and can't count on being able to produce more assemblies in the future at any reasonable cost. Those big corporations, however, have COO's that see that static inventory of expensive parts assemblies and go nuts. So, they define the stock they need for handling warranty repairs only, and that's based on an assumption of reliability.

That's one reason the 70's stuff is actually more maintainable than the latest stuff--I just restored a late-70's Teac open-reel tape deck, and was able to replace a transistor and several capacitors from my junk box, or from parts readily available on the internet. Forget being able to do that with equipment using proprietary integrated circuits, surface-mount components, and software-driven functionality. The physical machinery of that open-reel deck would be extremely expensive to manufacture today to the same standard, so being able to sustain the electronics is really useful.

For actives with software-driven crossover equalization (which is all of them these days), this will be a problem. But it's also a problem for separate amps, and especially for the currently popular integrated amps. What I don't get is paying for an integrated amp that uses software-driven streaming, which is based on standards, operating systems, and security protocols that will become obsolete in about 15 minutes. The software will become unsustainable long before the hardware in most cases, and that drives me nuts.

Rick "who hates filling landfills with big things made unusable because of little things" Denney

yea true though, but I do expect for some manufacturers in big actives say Genelec, Neumann, Focal, KRK, Adam... etc. could makes kind of pin and screw holes compatible parts across most of their design at similar class/grade to have similar or same power output for future repair of quite old products. I am not really sure but I imagine replacing a 8030A's broken amp with a 8030C's amp shouldn't be that difficult, maybe the active crossovers need to be re-calibrated or maybe just snap and go with the "upgrade amp". Maybe some of them will just say sorry, we changed design and you need to replace the whole darn thing or we give you a trade in cost or so.

Maybe it's marketing gimmicks, but I always adore Genelec to publicly say they use recycled aluminium for speaker construction, so even I don't want to fix my 8030 in 20 years and wanna upgrade, I can always send the broken ones back for them to recycle and not waste as much material as it could be.

 

[YSC]

Haven’t we learned from automobiles that software is stupid to include in hardware? Most people have “Check Engine” OBD history because their gas cap wasn’t put on tight enough - which is just plain stupid to have to visit the dealer to reset.

For cars absolutely! my trusted and extremely reliable 2008 Mazda 6 is now 210k km mileage on the clock and yet no major components need repair, and then things like the anti theft system who always dreaming of someone wanna steal it (I always wanna tell it you worth scrap steel now, nobody will steal you), or the bloody seat loading sensor keep having bad connection which bumps out the airbag warning light... If not the 2008 electronics I think I could go a lot less to the garage to switch off those annoyances

 

[Jim Matthews]

DSC_0218 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr



No foam surrounds on these, though -- but the XO capacitors Henry used in these do have an extreme tendency to fail and not pass signal to the tweeters after ca. 4 decades.

So *that's * where they all went.

 

[Jim Matthews]

If not the 2008 electronics I think I could go a lot less to the garage to switch off those annoyances

Try driving an Audi.

$400 "book rate" to change one headlamp bulb.

Step one : remove engine

 

[antennaguru]

For cars absolutely! my trusted and extremely reliable 2008 Mazda 6 is now 210k km mileage on the clock and yet no major components need repair, and then things like the anti theft system who always dreaming of someone wanna steal it (I always wanna tell it you worth scrap steel now, nobody will steal you), or the bloody seat loading sensor keep having bad connection which bumps out the airbag warning light... If not the 2008 electronics I think I could go a lot less to the garage to switch off those annoyances

The only people that car alarms catch are the car's owners!

If it's really worth stealing, then the professional thieves know how to get around all of that stuff.

 

[antennaguru]

What/who is Elmer?

Mr. Ed

 

[YSC]

Try driving an Audi.

$400 "book rate" to change one headlamp bulb.

Step one : remove engine

That’s why I steer away from Audi and audio products where the manufacturer have similar philosophy of serviceability as a poor man