Typical lifespan of actives v passives?

[mhardy6647]

I had double Advents ages ago. When the surrounds went, I gave them away. Later my Phase-Tec 60's lasted just over 5 years and a pair of Snell E III's the same. It's commendable that you don't throw things away.

DSC_0218 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr



No foam surrounds on these, though -- but the XO capacitors Henry used in these do have an extreme tendency to fail and not pass signal to the tweeters after ca. 4 decades.

 

[rdenney]

Yeah, ferrofluid kind of burst onto the consumer hifi scene in the late 1970s, to the best of my (age-addled) recollection.

EDIT: an unscientific (i.e., quick & dirty cheap & cheerful) search at worldradiohistory.com turned up the earliest mentions of ferrofluid damping in 2978 in the hifi rags. Here's an example, fwiw (the single earliest one I found, Stereo Review Jan. 1978).
https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Stereo-Review-IDX/IDX/70s/HiFi-Stereo-Review-1978-01-OCR-Page-0075.pdf#search="ferrofluid"

View attachment 140874

Advent put ferrofluid-damped tweeters in their New Advent Loudspeakers starting in 1977, and bragged about doing so, as I recall. It extended frequency response higher without undermining their ability to drive lower frequencies without overheating, as I remember the descriptions, compared to the original fried-egg tweeters. They still used the fried-egg shape and they still made them in their own factory in Cambridge. I have replaced tweeters in Advent NLA's that were torn due to physical trauma (usually from the expanded-metal protection screen bring crushed) but the one's I've used still have workable damping. They certainly still work, in any case, and REW notes the (expected) roll off in the top octave but no strange rise in distortion that would indicate lack of damping lubrication.

Rick "still serviceable for the time being" Denney

 

[rdenney]

It's commendable that you don't throw things away.

That depends on who you ask.

Rick "whose wife might not agree" Denney

 

[redshift]

That's an interesting idea. Passive speakers, instead of having their own crossovers, could provide separate inputs for each driver and publish the specs for the crossovers they recommend. You punch those specs into your line-level DSP and feed each driver separately. With well implemented DSP now a commodity, this becomes a practical solution. Ah but you need a separate amp for each driver... this becomes the modern redefinition of "bi-amping" or "multi-amping".

Yeah, I have been thinking the same. Make the speaker design and mastering specs public.

The mastering spec could be included with the record and carry a few predefined presets as well.

Most Hifi aficionados with newer gear are sporting at least one DSP in the signal processing pipeline.

 

[redshift]

I'd have guessed it unlikely that hifi magazine will still exist in 2978 but I'll take your word for it .

You never know. Tubes came back with a vengeance.

 

[redshift]

In 7000 years the mineral oil of the ferrofluid will morph under the air pressure and heat of loud listening to diamond and our audiophile successors can then brag about diamond tweeters.

You surely meant that the ferrite particles and oil transmutated into carbon and then into diamond from the sheer abuse of rowdy Rick rolling? No?

 

[sergeauckland]

What if a radio is on 12 hours a day? Or if an oven electronic and display is always on, then some time gets hot? If the electronic of a clock is always on?

Caps of 60's and 70's could end exploding, blowing away components around them. Or more often, just leaking around.

On my oven board, all caps "looked" correct. Due to signals, I first suspected and swapped the switching reg; still the same. I swapped all caps, which fixed it. Why should I bother to check caps specs if one is sure dead or bad?

It was not the only box I fixed so. I had a dead particular ASUS board. Problem was well known: low esr caps in a specific location aging out in a serie. I swapped the known caps, recovered so that board.

Before ending dead, leaking or exploding, their values decrease, or other parameters change. Might be a good reason to swap them all after 20 years.

Indeed, equipment that is on permanently can limit the lifetime. Capacitors aren't just affected by temperature, how close the voltage is to their rating also has an effect, and how much ripple they have to carry matters too, as this also raises the temperature inside the capacitor, independent of ambient temperature.

There are many failure mechanisms in electronics, even without overloads, semiconductors can fail due to the seal with the wires letting in air and moisture, and the metal degrading. Mechanical failure of soldered joints or welds is another. That's why equipment used in hot, damp conditions, near salt water, subject to heavy vibrations or subject to mains spikes and overvoltage stresses all lead to lower lifetimes. However, under more benign conditions, electronics can last extraordinary lengths of time.

Transmitters are expected to operate 24/7 for 20 years, so that's some 175,000 hours, without failures except for consumable items like tubes.
When the BBC replaced the London Control Room in Broadcasting house in 2004/5, they decommissioned the line amplifier racks that had been installed during the previous re-engineering in 1968, so these amps had operated 24/7 for 36 years, or over 300,000 hours. Some of the line amp even still had small double-triode valves! However, these were in a temperature and humidity-controlled environment, using stabilised mains, so about as benign as it could get.

S.

 

[RobL]

All this active speaker capacitor talk puts me in mind of some Nikko speakers (passives of course)I had with a non functioning midrange. Found the culprit inside…

 

[redshift]

All this active speaker capacitor talk puts me in mind of some Nikko speakers (passives of course)I had with a non functioning midrange. Found the culprit inside…

A victim of the knockoff Chinese capacitor plague that ravaged electronics about a decade ago.

 

[RobL]

A victim of the knockoff Chinese capacitor plague that ravaged electronics about a decade ago.

These actually dated from the 1980’s I believe, a Japanese brand. I think somebody had a few too many wobbly pops and turned it up to 11.

 

[redshift]

These actually dated from the 1980’s I believe, a Japanese brand. I think somebody had a few too many wobbly pops and turned it up to 11.

I think I found the incident of which you speak on the interwebz. However, I could be mistaken. Not that it happens much these days anymore.

Please verify my bold assertion.

 

[DSJR]

I played my old TDL RTL 3’s so much (and hard) that the driver surrounds started to sag from fatigue and cause the coil to rub against the magnet. It took about 5 years.

Usually electronics outlast actuators.

Had I known them nearer to new, there's a resistor change to the crossover (the resistor across the coil which is across the load) that would have prevented this as well as increasing midrange output back to 'flat' and a much easier load on the amp (John Wright liked his recessed mids, he did ). This mod was from the designer of the drive units used in answer to a well thrashed Audiolab 8000 amp which continually overheated driving them...

 

[redshift]

Had I known them nearer to new, there's a resistor change to the crossover (the resistor across the coil which is across the load) that would have prevented this as well as increasing midrange output back to 'flat' and a much easier load on the amp (John Wright liked his recessed mids, he did ). This mod was from the designer of the drive units used in answer to a well thrashed Audiolab 8000 amp which continually overheated driving them...

Interesting. My old 70W NAD died while driving those speakers.

I recall liking the sound of those speakers.

 

[DSJR]

Right from early 70's IMF (UK) days, th emids were pulled down to balance the transmission line cancellation at 120 - 150Hz or so. He did this for certain in the RTL3 (my pal who was ex-Elac and latterly of TDL when they only made drivers). There was something like a 5 ohm resistor on top of the coil wired in parallel to the pair of drivers. Changing said resistor to 30 ohms or so brought the recessed mids back out and removed the boom-tizz this model could have over the rather endearing if badly finished RTL2. Client was thrilled, the amp ran cooler and that was that I recall...

This applies to the bubble finish series 1 RTL's though, the SE which was the replacement range looked far better but fashion changes to the tonal balance killed them! - damned WTF (sorry, WHF) magazine

 

[redshift]

Right from early 70's IMF (UK) days, th emids were pulled down to balance the transmission line cancellation at 120 - 150Hz or so. He did this for certain in the RTL3 (my pal who was ex-Elac and latterly of TDL when they only made drivers). There was something like a 5 ohm resistor on top of the coil wired in parallel to the pair of drivers. Changing said resistor to 30 ohms or so brought the recessed mids back out and removed the boom-tizz this model could have over the rather endearing if badly finished RTL2. Client was thrilled, the amp ran cooler and that was that I recall...

This applies to the bubble finish series 1 RTL's though, the SE which was the replacement range looked far better but fashion changes to the tonal balance killed them! - damned WTF (sorry, WHF) magazine

“Boom-tizz”. Yes! Those were the days with plenty of rowdy parties amplified by locally sourced moonshine.

 

[YSC]

All this active speaker capacitor talk puts me in mind of some Nikko speakers (passives of course)I had with a non functioning midrange. Found the culprit inside…

Ok, when in cantonese we called the leaking caps to be exploded which is kind of inaccurate, now this is really an exploded cap!

A victim of the knockoff Chinese capacitor plague that ravaged electronics about a decade ago.

more than that, it should be around the millennium, I started building my own PC at highschool, when all motherboards still use electrolytic caps (Pentium 3 and AMD Athlon, first 1Ghz cpu ever), at those eras the brand of caps are all the rage of motherboard was capacitor brands, some brands are plagued for caps exploding all over the place within a year and scrap your PC

 

[Paulz]

Well not surprisingly this has been a very interesting and useful thread!

It seems my concerns over the longevity of actives have been largely addressed, understanding that while there is necessarily a higher risk of failure and possibly shorter lifespan, actives still represent an excellent value proposition, even for those on tight budgets

After reading through this thread, I must admit my initial question was a bit naive, in that I realize now how hard it is to pin down such a broad inquiry with a simple black and white answer. Too many interdependent variables and variations.

Anyway, just wanted to chime in to thank everyone who responded to help someone lacking your experience and expertise.

 

[DSJR]

Just to add that older active all-in-ones in the UK can usually have the electronics serviced easily enough (I'm reminded of John Bowers Active Ones and original Meridian models). getting drivers serviced though may well be more of a problem, but that applies to most speakers regardless over ten years old...

 

[YSC]

Well not surprisingly this has been a very interesting and useful thread!

It seems my concerns over the longevity of actives have been largely addressed, understanding that while there is necessarily a higher risk of failure and possibly shorter lifespan, actives still represent an excellent value proposition, even for those on tight budgets

After reading through this thread, I must admit my initial question was a bit naive, in that I realize now how hard it is to pin down such a broad inquiry with a simple black and white answer. Too many interdependent variables and variations.

Anyway, just wanted to chime in to thank everyone who responded to help someone lacking your experience and expertise.

You're welcome, actually for any kind of electronics it will have it's lifespan, who knows under specific condition when will it gone. most important is that in order to achieve the same result in a passive configuration, you need to do all calibration, DSP, amp etc. all by yourself, and individual component usually would need a greater buffer for it to run in case of something goes under powered, so you ended up spending considerable more to achieve similar result as a side effect of freedom of choice of components. so cost wise you should be fine eigherway

 

[antennaguru]

I have had three (3) different active subwoofers die (JBL, EV, and ACI). All three had blown plate amps, and identical dimension replacement plate amps were NOT available from the OEM. I did find replacement plate amps from Parts Express but they each had a different dimension plate than their predecessor, resulting in extensive modification that would have binned those subs for most people, but as I have access to sheet metal working facilities I was able to fabricate “filler plates” to make the replacement plate amps fully fit the holes left by the dead plate amps. The EV plate amp took out its woofer as well, so I needed to replace that one woofer as well. The worst part is that the sub cabinets are in general fragile particle board/mdf cubes. Just unscrewing and removing the bad plate amp takes its toll on the wood byproduct cabinet, let alone the redrilling for the replacement plate amp’s different hole pattern, and the fabricated filler plate. Gobs of silicone sealant helped this time, but will hinder the next replacement(s).