Typical lifespan of actives v passives?

[Chr1]

Hopefully rotting driver surrounds are a thing of the past now and the only way to kill a passive speaker is through abuse. ie. A clipping amplifier, or over driving through too much power.

Personally I have had a pair of vintage passive Mission 700s fail due to rotting surrounds, and an active KRK RP8 G3 amp fail.

 

[Roland68]

Hopefully rotting driver surrounds are a thing of the past now and the only way to kill a passive speaker is through abuse. ie. A clipping amplifier, or over driving through too much power.

Personally I have had a pair of vintage passive Mission 700s fail due to rotting surrounds, and an active KRK RP8 G3 amp fail.

Speaker surrounds will inevitably age; there is nothing, technically or chemically, that can be done to prevent this.
Naturally, this issue is far more severe with foam surrounds than with rubber ones.
Surrounds deteriorate due to movement, environmental factors (sunlight/UV exposure, heat/cold), the use of improper cleaning agents, the evaporation of plasticizers, and so on.
In the case of rubber surrounds, carefully rubbing them down with pure technical-grade glycerin can be helpful.

However, surrounds—particularly foam ones—can be replaced easily and affordably.

 

[steve59]

A typical warning regarding Active/dsp actives is comparing failure in the chain. My DSP8000se needed a new display on the master so no music Period. For me it was a great excuse to rent a trailer and load my 1290SDR and speaker for a MC vaca in the smoky's ( Meridian service in USA was GA)while waiting for service to be completed, but had it been a passive system I could have used a different pre while shipping my damaged unit out for repair.

 

[Chr1]

Just a note on speaker surrounds: There's more than just foam and rubber. Lots of modern speakers use phenolic impregnated fabrics, which are far more durable than either of the above.
Hopefully foam is no longer being used, and from what I can gather, rubber surrounds are more common with subwoofer drivers where bigger excursions are the norm.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Most modern surrounds are black rubber. A question could be how long these last before audible deterioration in the typical home.

 

[Ultrasonic]

Conditions of storage when not in use would certainly be an issue. Humid (where I have always lived: on a deep water creek, on a river, on islands and was it put in an attic, stored in a basemen or kept in a climate controlled home.
Mine have never been outside of a climate controlled home except for wen I have put them on the patio with their back to the exterior wall, so as to get the sound headed across the back yard to my friends on my dock.
But, that is a rare use case, maybe 3 times a year. Otherwise, they are in an indoor, climate controlled location.

By "in use" I was actually just referring to playing music. Once the speaker was fine one day and not the next and I wasn't playing anything unusually loud just before switching off. The other time the speaker had actually not been used for a while but had been stored elsewhere within the main house, not out in a garage or something.

 

[EJ3]

By "in use" I was actually just referring to playing music. Once the speaker was fine one day and not the next and I wasn't playing anything unusually loud just before switching off. The other time the speaker had actually not been used for a while but had been stored elsewhere within the main house, not out in a garage or something.

Unlucky, I guess. I've had it happen to electric radiator fans on cars. One minute they are working, the next minute they are not.
Just like now. I have no idea what I may have touched to change the font, text, whatever you call it. But I will have to find someone to fix it.

 

[jamescarter1982]

had 3 pairs of active studio monitors one expensive and two cheaper and all the amps have failed at some point . the expensive ones did last 10 years but were still a massive pain to get sorted . have quite a few standalone amps and speakers that are still going strong after much longer than that

 

[Chr1]

Reckon climate may be a primary factor here. If I lived in a very hot climate, I would definitely do a bit of research before investing in actives.

Possibly the case with humidity too.

 

[Head_Unit]

Well if they last long

So probably one could say that good examples of both should last a long time but passives typically longer?

Yeah, and I'll second the anti-foam notion. I worked with a fellow Neal Baitcher who was working on making foam last longer but I don't think that effort completely succeeded. So passives will last as long as the capacitors, active can still last very very long but it really depends on the electronics design and heat management etc. As a parallel instance my mom is using like a 1980s stereo receiver, whereas other people complain their (much more complex!) several year old AVRs have problems. I wouldn't be too worried about a well ventilated cool running active however something that integrated all the streaming and DSP and all has more to go wrong-though again based on design might last a long long time. Keep in mind the electronics powering your passive can still die.

 

[thcdru2k]

Reckon climate may be a primary factor here. If I lived in a very hot climate, I would definitely do a bit of research before investing in actives.

Possibly the case with humidity too.

A lot of my components are 20+ years old including passives and electronics but I am in San Diego so mild temperature, low rainfall, no extreme health, moderate humidity. Have not had any issues foam rot, glue degradation, corroded terminals, aging capacitors, etc.

 

[EJ3]

Yep you can easily find those on eBay too. Heck, you can find 30+ year old Genelec models for sale if you go looking. And these were probably used for far more hours than any consumer speaker over those years.

That said, I think actives from old studio monitor companies like this are built to a higher standard than most consumer-targeted ones. And Genelec in particular keeps parts around and services old models for decades.

I really doubt you can expect the same from say an LS50W or whatever.

And Genelec is a higher end brand that is much more expensive than most others. I would be very disappointed if they did not last a long, long time.
But that is comparing way above average actives to passives in general.
I never paid more than $900 for a pair of any speakers (my M-905's bought in 1989).
But all passives that I have ever owned (since my 1977 Frazier Super Monte Carlo's that I paid $80 for because someone had ordered them, put a 50% deposit on them and 6 months later, had never come to get them) and still do own, work just fine.
I have never had a passive just fail. Nor do I know anyone that has.
I cannot say the same about actives. I know a number of people that have had failures (always unrelated to the speaker itself).
I also know no one that owns a Neuman or a Genelec and had never even heard f them before coming to this site. I have never seen either except in pictures.
Question: are my DYI built subs, which have individual amps that are mounted in the stereo cabinet with speaker wires running to the subs, actives or passives (and what makes them so?)?

 

[BobbyTimmons]

had 3 pairs of active studio monitors one expensive and two cheaper and all the amps have failed at some point . the expensive ones did last 10 years but were still a massive pain to get sorted . have quite a few standalone amps and speakers that are still going strong after much longer than that

What manufacturers were these?

 

[Jmsent]

Depending on the age and the types of materials used, drivers deteriorate in different ways. Probably the most stable type would be a single piece paper cone/surround driver with an alnico magnet that uses a pole piece. In many drivers, the magnet and pole piece were one and the same, and those were prone to demagnetizing if you hit the voice coil with a large bass pulse. One speaker that had this problem was the early Dynaco A25. Many of those now have reduced sensitivity and flabby bass due to demagnetized alnico slugs. Modern drivers are particularly prone to glue joint failure and surround deterioration. And that isn't just the well known foam problem. Modern synthetic rubber compounds used in surrounds can perform better than the old NBR types, but they also tend to harden over shorter periods of time. Everything is a tradeoff in driver design.

 

[Flaesh]

actives or passives (and what makes them so?)?

For example, JBL M2 is sometimes described as active, sometimes as passive. What if we add the SUB18? The processor and each driver amplification are always external. I assume the BlueHorns are sold as active(?)

 

[LTig]

For example, JBL M2 is sometimes described as active, sometimes as passive. What if we add the SUB18? The processor and each driver amplification are always external. I assume the BlueHorns are sold as active(?)

Active means separate amplifiers for each driver (type), with a line level crossover in front of the amps. The amps need not be built in into the speaker housing. If they are inside the box the speaker is powered.

• The JBL M2 uses external amps. Some of the bigger active studio monitors also use external amps, e.g. those which need to be flush mounted.
• Some active studio monitors offer the choice between internal or external amps.
• Some cheap powered speakers are not active as they use only one amp with a passive crossover behind.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Speaker surrounds will inevitably age; there is nothing, technically or chemically, that can be done to prevent this.
Naturally, this issue is far more severe with foam surrounds than with rubber ones.
Surrounds deteriorate due to movement, environmental factors (sunlight/UV exposure, heat/cold), the use of improper cleaning agents, the evaporation of plasticizers, and so on.
In the case of rubber surrounds, carefully rubbing them down with pure technical-grade glycerin can be helpful.

However, surrounds—particularly foam ones—can be replaced easily and affordably.

Most speaker surrounds are black rubber, which uses carbon black. This should give them almost perfect protection from UV.

The problem seems more likely the IR component of sunlight heating the rubber up.

But have you seen the thread of Salon 2 owners, where the surrounds have fallen apart? What could be the cause here? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../parts-for-salon-2s.39191/page-6#post-2434076 The carbon black would shield them from UV and the user doesn't even leave them in the sun. Butyl rubber is waterproof so it can't be the humidity.

 

[EJ3]

Active means separate amplifiers for each driver (type), with a line level crossover in front of the amps. The amps need not be built in into the speaker housing. If they are inside the box the speaker is powered.

• The JBL M2 uses external amps. Some of the bigger active studio monitors also use external amps, e.g. those which need to be flush mounted.
• Some active studio monitors offer the choice between internal or external amps.
• Some cheap powered speakers are not active as they use only one amp with a passive crossover behind.

Which make my DIY subs active, as the Pre-Amp Left & Right line out goes into a crossover with HP and LP filters that then distribute those to the line in to the stereo amp for the left & right speakers and the line in for the individual amps for each sub.
So: this setup makes all of the speakers active, correct? Active but not with onboard, built in amps?

 

[Roland68]

Most speaker surrounds are black rubber, which uses carbon black. This should give them almost perfect protection from UV.

The problem seems more likely the IR component of sunlight heating the rubber up.

But have you seen the thread of Salon 2 owners, where the surrounds have fallen apart? What could be the cause here? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../parts-for-salon-2s.39191/page-6#post-2434076 The carbon black would shield them from UV and the user doesn't even leave them in the sun. Butyl rubber is waterproof so it can't be the humidity.

If loudspeakers are exposed to sunlight—for instance, every day—the surface hardens due to UV light and becomes brittle (though this is often visible only under high magnification). This damage is then exacerbated by the movement of the driver. Most people are unaware of these long-term effects. Moreover, it makes no difference whether the ambient temperature is warm or cold. Depending on the geographical region, this can amount to anywhere between 10,000 and 20,000 hours of sun exposure over a ten-year period.

The issue observed with the Salon 2 speakers appears to be the result of severe overloading, improper sizing of the surround—or perhaps a combination of both.
I have frequently encountered this type of damage when loudspeakers are used for watching movies—specifically without a subwoofer and without limiting the low-frequency output directed to the main speakers.
While owners often claim they did not overload the speakers, this is simply because they failed to notice when it was happening.
In many films—particularly action movies and those featuring loud, orchestral scores—the low-frequency content is often many times more intense than that found in standard music recordings.
With standard music, you can usually tell immediately when the speakers are reaching their limits; with movies, however, you typically cannot—something I have personally verified through experimentation.
The typical signs of overload damage in such cases include damage and cracks in the cone itself, right where it meets the rubber surround (there are some interesting images illustrating this on KEF’s aluminum cones, where the cones can literally shatter or tear apart); cracks along the inner fold of the rubber surround, right at the junction with the cone; and cracks along the outer fold of the rubber surround, where it joins the driver frame.

 

[dasherzx]

my swans hivi mk3 is gone in a decade. an hour of low volumes 2-3 days a week.