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two different amps sound the same?

pseudoid

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i came for information
Stayed tuned, and be patient! But if you are looking for an answer (we are all trying to assist with) is not instantaneous as you desire...
apparently you came to belittle.
... it looks to me as you are the one who is belittling everyone else, who are extending a helping hand as best as they can.
 

ahofer

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Carver was trying to replicate, among others, a Conrad Johnson tube amp, if I remember correctly. So everyone believed there might be a subtle difference and he was tweaking his own amp to replicate it. But, as many have said, they couldn’t tell the subtle difference anyway.

There are much better amplifier blind tests, which you can find in my thread compilation here by searching for “catalogue of blind tests”, checking the title box, and filtering for me (@ahofer)

For me, the Stereo Review comparison- -which was carefully level-matched and included an OTL tube amp, an Audio Research amp, and an entry level Japanese amp—was pretty definitive.

None of it means they don’t measure differently, won’t clip if underpowered, or won’t behave differently under unusual loads, but it takes a lot of special contortions for amps to sound audibly different at the same volume levels.
 
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izeek

izeek

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Stayed tuned, and be patient! But if you are looking for an answer (we are all trying to assist with) is not instantaneous as you desire...

... it looks to me as you are the one who is belittling everyone else, who are extending a helping hand as best as they can.
seriuosly? your comment denies the rudeness of other posters.
Well, the OP asking "But is it ok for me not to like the adcom based on subjective results??" is either a not serious, or just sad.

'Like' or 'not like' whatever the heck you want, man. Just understand why 'I don't like the way my amp sounds' by itself isn't good evidence for real sonic difference. Don't give it much weight, and don't present it as evidence on a science-oriented forum.
do this sound polite to you?
"is either not serious or just SAD"?
where in there did i belittle this poster? because i called him a jackass for being rude AFTER he made that comment?!
it was nearly a yes or no answer. all the rest of that was absolutely unnecessary.
this poster has done this in a few other threads as well. modus operandi. and he is not alone.
the pompsity on this forum really is sad. there, i insulted all those that that applies to. if youre feeling insulted i imagine you know you're being pompous.

to those offering geniune information, of which there were many, thank you.
i learned alot about what equipment really scientifically does.
i particularly appreciate the poster's information on possible issues with my amp.
that was expressly helpful. now, i can decide if i want to repair or sell it. exactly why i come here.
 

krabapple

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man, theres a lot of you unnecessary commenters.
i came for information.
apparently you came to belittle.
if you cant answer questions without the dumb s$#÷, just keep it moving.
really simple.
pretty sad you feel the need to be a jackass to prove your superiority of said knowledge.
obi wan you are not.
this goes for the others here negatively describing my quest for information which is what this forum is supposedly about.

ASR thread from June 2021:

The correct answer you found here, was also there in the first reply. And reiterated on other threads whenever the topic of amp difference arises.

How hard did you search before you created this redundant thread?
 

pseudoid

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I personally would like to apologize to others, if my post above has the optics of incitement.
I will delete mine if anyone requests it.
 

Doodski

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I personally would like to apologize to others, if my post above has the optics of incitement.
I will delete mine if anyone requests it.
Deleting stuff and excessive changes makes the flow of the commentary awkward, sometimes confusing and is just a no no as far as I'm concerned. I correct spelling and grammatical errors if I see mine but other than that even if I make a idiotic comment I leave it there for all to see. It makes the commentary spicy and more interesting. Leave it be. :D
 

ta240

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By changing the signal in a way or magnitude that is inaudible.

Yet, the article linked shows that altering tone controls to boost/cut treble and bass on amps can create the same differences to the square waves. Those should be clearly within the audible range. And completely fit into the typical amp descriptions of sounding 'warm' or 'detailed' depending on what is boosted and what is rolled off.

I ask again, why are square waves shown in other sites tests but not on this one?

Either they are not a valid method of seeing anything about an amps performance and all the other sites, including the very scientific minded site by Rod Elliott, are in error; or they are valid and this site chooses to ignore them because they don't fit the hypothesis.
 

pseudoid

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...I ask again, why are square waves shown in other sites tests but not on this one? ...
I ask again, why are square waves shown in other sites tests but not on this one?
Again: LOL.
If I am not mistaken, the AudioPrecision APx555 @amirm relies on, uses square waves for jitter measurements when necessary.
But be careful about what you are asking. A square wave is not an analog audio signal. More like putting DC voltage (50% duty cycle) to the audio front end. In addition to this DC @50% cycle you are also injecting a wallop of a signal which contains signal byproducts (in the RF domain) which go way beyond the 20kHz limit of most audio hardware that are expecting sinusoidal signals.
 

ahofer

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seriuosly? your comment denies the rudeness of other posters.

do this sound polite to you?
"is either not serious or just SAD"?
where in there did i belittle this poster? because i called him a jackass for being rude AFTER he made that comment?!
it was nearly a yes or no answer. all the rest of that was absolutely unnecessary.
this poster has done this in a few other threads as well. modus operandi. and he is not alone.
the pompsity on this forum really is sad. there, i insulted all those that that applies to. if youre feeling insulted i imagine you know you're being pompous.

to those offering geniune information, of which there were many, thank you.
i learned alot about what equipment really scientifically does.
i particularly appreciate the poster's information on possible issues with my amp.
that was expressly helpful. now, i can decide if i want to repair or sell it. exactly why i come here.
Re “mansplaining”:

 

levimax

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Yet, the article linked shows that altering tone controls to boost/cut treble and bass on amps can create the same differences to the square waves. Those should be clearly within the audible range. And completely fit into the typical amp descriptions of sounding 'warm' or 'detailed' depending on what is boosted and what is rolled off.

I ask again, why are square waves shown in other sites tests but not on this one?

Either they are not a valid method of seeing anything about an amps performance and all the other sites, including the very scientific minded site by Rod Elliott, are in error; or they are valid and this site chooses to ignore them because they don't fit the hypothesis.
Square waves are often used when diagnosing amp problems as they give a quick visual picture of if an amp is working correctly or not and if not gives a clue what to look at for a problem. The subject of @amirm using square waves to test amps has come up and @amirm has decided not to include them as anything you can see in a square wave test will show up in his other tests along with the fact that due to band width limiting issues and ultrasonic noise class D amps don't reproduce square waves well even when working correctly so this test can cause more confusion rather than providing helpful information.
 
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izeek

izeek

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ASR thread from June 2021:

The correct answer you found here, was also there in the first reply. And reiterated on other threads whenever the topic of amp difference arises.

How hard did you search before you created this redundant thread?
so effin what if it was redundant. that warrants snide remarks?
i love how idiots double down on idiocy.
your reply is more of the same bulls@$!.
 

pseudoid

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Where was that "Unwatch" button, again?
 

JWAmerica

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No, Headfi certainly doesn't present itself as science based. That's kinda the point I was making. It's almost the reverse of here, only there they have a specific forum dedicated to audio science where it's OK to call BS on stuff like burn-in and dacs all sounding different. But try to call out somebody in an ear bud thread claiming his new moondrops need 200 hours of burn-in anywhere else on the site and see how far you get. Here, people are free to post whatever crazy stuff they want. But they have to accept that they will be challenged on it pretty quickly...I'm not sure why the subjectivists seem to have a problem with that.
Open borders mentality
 

krabapple

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so effin what if it was redundant. that warrants snide remarks?
i love how idiots double down on idiocy.
your reply is more of the same bulls@$!.


the answer to
two different amps sound the same?
is
yes, two different amps sound the same!
you mad now?
i play you a song:

Idiot wind
Blowing every time you move your mouth
Blowing down the back roads headin' south
Idiot wind
Blowing every time you move your teeth
You're an idiot, babe
It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe
 
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izeek

izeek

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the answer to
two different amps sound the same?
is
yes, two different amps sound the same!
you mad now?
i play you a song:

Idiot wind
Blowing every time you move your mouth
Blowing down the back roads headin' south
Idiot wind
Blowing every time you move your teeth
You're an idiot, babe
It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe
very sixth grade of you.
 

coonmanx

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I have three different integrated amps, although two of them were made by Technics.

One is an MCS 3842 and it works great and does its job. The second one is a Technics SU-V707, which has more power that I never use. And in the bedroom system I have a Kenwood KA-77, which can only run an 8 ohm load but that is fine since I only run one set of speakers on it. Different amps can have different power ratings and distortion, which may or may not really matter depending on room size and volume level desired.

The differences that I hear with those systems is more based on the speakers than anything else. The amps do all sound about the same. The best one, the one that is the most beastly, is the Technics SU-V707. But I never even push that amp either.
 
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