Turntables, similar but different?

[BJL]

I considered an AT LP120x, but I bought a Technics SL-1200GR. Given the identical cartridge and phono pre, I suppose it is possible that they sound the same (though I doubt it); there are significant differences. The SL-1200GR (and 1200G) are made by Technics in Japan, this is reflected in the fine Japanese craftsmanship of the turntable, and especially, the tonearm. The LP120x is outsource manufactured in China. As far as I can tell, the LP120x is mostly plastic, the 1200GR has a solid aluminum top plate with a glass fiber damped plinth. The 120x weighs about 17.5 pounds (8 kg), the 1200GR over 25 pounds (11.5 kg). The Technics is exquisitely designed and manufactured. The AT seemed to me to be an adequate budget version for casual, but not critical, listening.

The original LP120 was produced in 2009 after Technics discontinued the 1200 series and before Technics upgraded and reintroduced those turntables. I presume that the AT 120 etc. are licensed knockoffs, but they are by no means the same, other than the cosmetics and basics of the DD design. Of course, the 1200GR is much more expensive, plus a cartridge, plus a phono pre. Nonetheless, in my opinion, you get what you pay for, in this case.

 

[dougi]

I am considering a direct drive to replace the fiddly-ness and constant worrying about speed stability with my 20 year old VPI scout. Also so that my daughter can use it me having to intervene. In my price range the choice is between a Technics SL-1500c, SL-1200GR, Music Hall Stealth DD and Thorens 403 DD which would you go for? The Music Hall seams to be made in China and who knows for the DD motor for the Thorens. I don't need the speed control but would the GR be the best long term proposition?

 

[watchnerd]

Some reviews I have read say they cannot hear any difference between the A-T 120 and the Technics 1200.
They CAN hear big differences in cartridges.

Well, yeah.

Cartridges are transducers.

It's like hearing a difference between speakers. Not exactly shocking.

 

[watchnerd]

I am considering a direct drive to replace the fiddly-ness and constant worrying about speed stability with my 20 year old VPI scout. Also so that my daughter can use it me having to intervene. In my price range the choice is between a Technics SL-1500c, SL-1200GR, Music Hall Stealth DD and Thorens 403 DD which would you go for? The Music Hall seams to be made in China and who knows for the DD motor for the Thorens. I don't need the speed control but would the GR be the best long term proposition?

Either the SL-1500C or 1200GR, from that list.

Between those two, it will mostly come down to looks and features you want.

Personally, I like the cleaner looks of the 1500C, but I also don't care for the auto-lift feature and would never use the built-in phono stage.

 

[BJL]

I am considering a direct drive to replace the fiddly-ness and constant worrying about speed stability with my 20 year old VPI scout. Also so that my daughter can use it me having to intervene. In my price range the choice is between a Technics SL-1500c, SL-1200GR, Music Hall Stealth DD and Thorens 403 DD which would you go for? The Music Hall seams to be made in China and who knows for the DD motor for the Thorens. I don't need the speed control but would the GR be the best long term proposition?

The 1500c is nice, but it is made by Panasonic in Malaysia, vs. the 1200GR by Technics in Japan, the 1500c doesn't have the nice VTA adjuster, the tonearm is inferior to the GR (handmade in Japan), and it doesn't have the extent of damping in the plinth as the GR. Cheaper materials. The 1200GR in my opinion is the best value for a long term turntable investment (given the price). It is absolutely fuss-free, but you will need to purchase a cartridge and phono pre separately. I don't know anything about the Thorens or Music Hall that you mention, but for me, the Technics was the best turntable purchase that I have made, even compared to a much more expensive table that I owned previously.

 

[dougi]

Either the SL-1500C or 1200GR, from that list.

Between those two, it will mostly come down to looks and features you want.

Personally, I like the cleaner looks of the 1500C, but I also don't care for the auto-lift feature and would never use the built-in phono stage.

Yeah I agree on all counts there. Of course I now regret selling off my two 1200s cheaply when my daughter came along and had to give up the spare room for her.

 

[dlaloum]

In the "old days" the main difference between the SL1600's and the SL1200's - was a suspended lightweight plinth, vs an unsuspended heavily damped plinth... - The SL1200 being designed for pro/DJ use and the SL1600 for domestic - where feedback through the floor was likely to be an issue...

Is there something similar between the current SL1500 and SL1200's? are any of the current models suspended?

 

[anmpr1]

In the "old days" the main difference between the SL1600's and the SL1200's... The SL1200 being designed for pro/DJ use and the SL1600 for domestic

The original SL-1200 was not 'designed for DJ use'. That was just something that evolved because of its intrinsic design. In fact, it was marketed as a consumer record player. In descending order of price your had the original (armless) SP-10, the SL-1100a (and armless 110), and the SL-1200 (and the armless 120). Of the three, the 1200 was most popular, coming in at a lower price point (still expensive compared to most other record players) along with a form factor that better suited domestic integration. The 1100 model was quite large, physically, and a consumer had to 'put together' an SP-10 system before they could use it.

With the introduction of quartz PLL models, Panasonic's marketing changed, along with retail distribution. Consumer decks were the 13-17 Mk2 series, whereas the 1200Mk2 was consigned to the 'Professional Series' (that included the SP-10MkII, the SP-15 and SP-25). When I bought my first Mk2, my local Technics dealer didn't stock it, but had to special order one. See the brochure below, which is identical to the one my dealer gave me when he made the order. (Note that the deck in the brochure doesn't have the 45rpm adapter cut out. Must have been a one-off pre-production prototype?)

By the time of the Mk5, I had to go to a guitar store in order to find one. I think there were two main reasons for that. First, being part of the 'pro' line, and since guitar stores covered the DJ market, they had a better access to the Mk2s distribution channel. Second, the high-end 'press' had pretty much stopped pushing consumer DD in favor of more exotic and expensive belt drive players. Dealers liked that because of the margins, plus franchise exclusivity. You could buy an SL-1600x from any number of mail order outfits for next to nothing, but you had to go to a 'specialty' dealer if you wanted a Linn, or Michell, or VPI or...

In addition to the club trade, the Mk2 was also in radio stations. I saw them in college stations--operations that could not afford an SP-10 Mk2 could buy several 1200Mk2s for a fraction of the price, run them all day and night (along with a carton of Stanton 500 cartridges), and not have to worry about the student DJ abusing it, or general maintenance costs.

 

[anmpr1]

The ...the tonearm is inferior to the GR (handmade in Japan), and it doesn't have the extent of damping in the plinth as the GR. Cheaper materials.

Overall construction, fit and finish, and motor sophistication is no doubt a cut above what came before. The tonearm seems less. My guess is that for marketing reasons Panasonic had to (or thought they had to) make the total package look similar to the prior model, and because of that they kept the tonearm design more or less intact.

For a four thousand dollar record player, it seems to me they could have done better. Especially given their previous efforts. EPA 500 modular system was more sophisticated, and to my mind would have been much more suited at the new price point. But maybe that was too much to ask. Maybe four thousand dollars wasn't enough to cover it.

 

[BJL]

Overall construction, fit and finish, and motor sophistication is no doubt a cut above what came before. The tonearm seems less. My guess is that for marketing reasons Panasonic had to (or thought they had to) make the total package look similar to the prior model, and because of that they kept the tonearm design more or less intact.

For a four thousand dollar record player, it seems to me they could have done better. Especially given their previous efforts. EPA 500 modular system was more sophisticated, and to my mind would have been much more suited at the new price point. But maybe that was too much to ask. Maybe four thousand dollars wasn't enough to cover it.

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Just a small correction, I paid $1550 for the 1200GR, list price, I believe, is $1699. The 1200G/GAE is about $4000. I'm happy enough with the GR tonearm at the price I paid, though I suppose it could be better, but I'll leave that for folks more knowledgable than myself.