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Turntables - help me understand the appeal?

EJ3

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I have one kid. I didn't know he existed until he was 12. I didn't meet him until he was 16. He doesn't live in the USA. He has come to visit me & his mom (who I am now married to) for 4-6 months at a time for 3 years (but never asked us for money, he was just around where we were, working). The last time we were even in the same country was 6 years ago. He's quite successful on his own. He doesn't need me or any of my stuff. And we really have no common interests.
So what happens to my stuff when I leave this world is not my issue.
My issue is what I want for me while I am here.
What I have doesn't date back 140 years but 1927 (from my grandma & the year my father was born) is still pretty far back.
I will be happier about it once I have it digitized. But I see no reason to get rid of it.
 

RCAguy

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Until you die, then your kids will throw them in the garbage like I did with my family's 78's

But there isn't a single one of them that I can't live without in my music library.
You “can live without them” because you don't know what they are, what you’re missing. (None of us knows what we don't know.) I’ve restored and added to my collection historic 16in radio transcriptions from the 1940s~50s with jazz by the all the great big bands, and featuring the best singers like Ella, Frank, Nat, Billie, etc. True they are mono, but very good sound at double the linear velocity at 33-1/3 rpm. Then I restored some 1952 Cook binaurals that have two separate mono grooves and fantastic stereo even by today's standards (paper at www.filmaker.com). These include the first stereo LP ever released - amazing dixieland jazz - and who wouldn't want to have that?
 

anmpr1

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1) Until you die, then your kids will throw them in the garbage like I did with my family's 78's

2) But there isn't a single one of them that I can't live without in my music library.

1) Yeah, that's probably true.

2) I've yet to find anything I have on 78 or LP that I can't find somewhere, digitized.

Anecdote: When I was an adolescent I met a gentle man, then I guess in his '80s. He collected 78 rpm records, and mechanical reproducers. Every nook and cranny of his house was stacked with shellacs, and associated gear. His wife must have loved him dearly, to put up with it.

I bought a Victrola (actually a Thorens) from him. I could tell that he really didn't want to sell it. Like mortgaging his kid or something. But he was willing to part with 'em because, I suppose, he wanted to school the younger gen.

He played Blue Ridge Mountain Blues by Vernon Dalhart for me. I was blown away. I never knew this kind of music existed, but I knew I had to start the long march, discovering the old stuff. Because I figured I'd never find it any other way. LOL Now you can locate most of the stuff on YT. Or the Internet Archive--people have digitized a ton of those old records.

I hang in there for the memories. But once I beam up, I know it's garage sale city for the collection. And gear. I always wondered what happened to the old gentleman's collection? I want to imagine it's at the Smithsonian, or the Library of Congress. But it's probably decomposing in a landfill.
 

RCAguy

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Prior post: “I've yet to find anything I have on 78 or LP that I can't find somewhere, digitized.”

[continued] He played Blue Ridge Mountain Blues by Vernon Dalhart for me. I was blown away. I never knew this kind of music existed, but I knew I had to start the long march, discovering the old stuff. Because I figured I'd never find it any other way. LOL Now you can locate most of the stuff on YT. Or the Internet Archive--people have digitized a ton of those old records. I hang in there for the memories.

Popular music has been thoroughly explored and digitized. But only a small fraction of longer-lived acoustic classical, jazz, folk, bluegrass, opera, Broadway, organ, choral, lieder, chants, sacred, Delphic hymns, zydeco, etc, etc and electronic music with their smaller shares of the listening market.
 
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anmpr1

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Popular music has been thoroughly explored and digitized. But only a small fraction of acoustic classical, jazz, folk, organ, choral, zydeco, bluegrass, etc, etc and electronic with their smaller shares of the listening market.
There's really a limit to what a person can consume. And on the fringes, what has been digitized may be a small fraction. I wouldn't doubt that. What happened in the heyday of vinyl is that a lot of the old 78s were reissued on LP. So you can find a lot there. Some will be 'lost'. Radio broadcasts and such that might not have been archived.

However it is, at my age I can't take the time to explore much more. It's like Indiana Jones. After a while, even he needs to stop exploring caves and jungles.
 

RCAguy

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There's really a limit to what a person can consume. And on the fringes, what has been digitized may be a small fraction. I wouldn't doubt that. What happened in the heyday of vinyl is that a lot of the old 78s were reissued on LP. So you can find a lot there. Some will be 'lost'. Radio broadcasts and such that might not have been archived.

However it is, at my age I can't take the time to explore much more. It's like Indiana Jones. After a while, even he needs to stop exploring caves and jungles.
Yes for us oldsters, but my posts (and Phonograph book) are written to help "youngsters." En masse, they could discover what we can't live long enough to.
 

Sal1950

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Popular music has been thoroughly explored and digitized. But only a small fraction of longer-lived acoustic classical, jazz, folk, bluegrass, opera, Broadway, organ, choral, lieder, chants, sacred, Delphic hymns, zydeco, etc, etc and electronic music with their smaller shares of the listening market.
And how much of that have you actually listened to???
I have just under 3k albums in my Strawberry library and another 300 or so needledrop recordings of my old vinyl discs.
Of that I'd estimate there's at least 10% that I've never heard. Then there's XXX millions of recordings on Apple Music that I've only heard a couple hundred of.
If you want to worry about all those eclectic recordings you listed, have at it.
I'd rather spend my time listening to music I actually like and want to hear.
Screenshot at 2022-12-28 14-12-08.png
 

MattHooper

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I certainly don’t think buying records requires any justification that “it’s stuff you can’t get digitally.” I have tons of records that are available digitally.

Though, as it happens, I also have a large collection of production/library music on vinyl that I cherish. Those records have traditionally been rare (few copies made, and not sold publicly) and not available on digital. However the genre gained popularity so more and more is being digitized. But most of it isn’t at this point.
 

Sal1950

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I certainly don’t think buying records requires any justification that “it’s stuff you can’t get digitally.” I have tons of records that are available digitally.
Folks can spend their dollars on whatever has value to them.
Value to me comes from getting the best possible sound quality and that comes in the digital domain.
More and more I'm finding 2ch listening boring and mainly looking to the multichannel 5.1 and Atmos market for my expenditures.
I live on a very small retirement income and have to limit my purchases to that which I really enjoy and excite me.
 

DanielT

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The video below covers a few different aspects. Aspects of appeal that have probably already been addressed in the thread, such as vinyl having a "warmer sound". I know that notion, but those in the video experience it purely subjectively. Do they experience it as such... well then they do. Subjective experiences are just that, subjective.

The tactile feel of vinyl and turntables vs streaming is taken up as an aspect.That is undeniably something that is true.:)

A really cool BIG store that sells used vinyl is shown in the video. You can watch the video just for that reason. :)


You can check here,the sale of vinyl:

 
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Sal1950

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I know that notion, but those in the video experience it purely subjectively. Do they experience it as such... well then they do. Subjective experiences are just that, subjective.
Just like expensive cables, grounding boxes, and the rest of the useless reports on sound quality that come from uncontrolled listening.
 

DanielT

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Just like expensive cables, grounding boxes, and the rest of the useless reports on sound quality that come from uncontrolled listening.
There is so much hocus pocus junk in HiFi that people imagine makes better sound. Okay people can imagine whatever they want, that's up to them. But I think it's sad that they waste their money on garbage when there are other things that can improve the sound.

On the other hand record players. Certainly sound-wise, lossless streaming is better that vinyl (provided that the streamed music in question is not totally destroyed by the lodness war). But record players, and now I'm guessing, for many here at ASR it's not about the sound quality, but it has to do with the fun of having something physical to fiddle with, the tactile feeling. Maybe record player for nostalgic reasons? Record player maybe as a hobby, much like you take out a vintage car and drive around a bit with it on a Sunday? The performance of the vintage car cannot measure up to a modern car, but that is not why you sometimes drive the vintage car.:)

For everyday use - a modern car. For everyday listening - streaming. That's how I see it anyway.:)
 

Cote Dazur

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The performance of the vintage car cannot measure up to a modern car, but that is not why you sometimes drive the vintage car.:)

For everyday use - a modern car.
Please allow me to share with you my view on your analogy. What you are stating is true, but is it relevant?
Vintage car performance inferior to modern car, OK, but what are you doing with that car/performance. Driving at the track? No, then, most likely driving on “normal” roads in “normal” condition, that vintage performance is still way more than you can really use, so what is the value of modern (more) performance? Measured performance is only of interest if it can be used/exploited. To me the very same is true for vintage audio and particularly listening to LP’s on TT. Is Digital potentially more performant? Absolutely. Does it matter for what I listen to and how I listen, no, not one bit, my records play just fine and I totally enjoy the sound they produce.
So vintage cars, modern cars, digital files, LP’s, all good for my real life experiences and probable also 99% of the population out there. Use what you enjoy.
I have both modern and vintage cars and if weather permits (I live in eastern Canada) I always prefer the vintage to the modern to go do the groceries.:p
 

DanielT

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Please allow me to share with you my view on your analogy. What you are stating is true, but is it relevant?
Vintage car performance inferior to modern car, OK, but what are you doing with that car/performance. Driving at the track? No, then, most likely driving on “normal” roads in “normal” condition, that vintage performance is still way more than you can really use, so what is the value of modern (more) performance? Measured performance is only of interest if it can be used/exploited. To me the very same is true for vintage audio and particularly listening to LP’s on TT. Is Digital potentially more performant? Absolutely. Does it matter for what I listen to and how I listen, no, not one bit, my records play just fine and I totally enjoy the sound they produce.
So vintage cars, modern cars, digital files, LP’s, all good for my real life experiences and probable also 99% of the population out there. Use what you enjoy.
I have both modern and vintage cars and if weather permits (I live in eastern Canada) I always prefer the vintage to the modern to go do the groceries.:p
Speaking of vintage. Overheard a discussion at the boat club between two older men who each own nice old wooden boats. Wooden boats they tinker with all year round. Repairing and varnishing ...and varnishing ...layer upon layer. Undeniably nice boats. Anyway, when it was time to put the boats in the lake, one old man said to the other: "Now is this season over."
Maybe said as a joke but I suspect it wasn't.:)

Going with the boats on the lake was not their thing. The pursuit of vintage hobbies can really differ.:)
 

EJ3

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Please allow me to share with you my view on your analogy. What you are stating is true, but is it relevant?
Vintage car performance inferior to modern car, OK, but what are you doing with that car/performance. Driving at the track? No, then, most likely driving on “normal” roads in “normal” condition, that vintage performance is still way more than you can really use, so what is the value of modern (more) performance? Measured performance is only of interest if it can be used/exploited. To me the very same is true for vintage audio and particularly listening to LP’s on TT. Is Digital potentially more performant? Absolutely. Does it matter for what I listen to and how I listen, no, not one bit, my records play just fine and I totally enjoy the sound they produce.
So vintage cars, modern cars, digital files, LP’s, all good for my real life experiences and probable also 99% of the population out there. Use what you enjoy.
I have both modern and vintage cars and if weather permits (I live in eastern Canada) I always prefer the vintage to the modern to go do the groceries.:p
There are many modern cars that don't do things as well as my vintage cars (but that is because I don't leave things stock, not even on my newer cars), my vintage cars will out accelerate, outhandle, out brake, have a better stereo, lower interior sound level etc than many, if not most newer cars, including my bought new 2012 Lexus ES350. In fact, my vintage cars also get better fuel economy (on the HWY, in the city, it's about the same) than my Lexus (and my vintage cars meet the emissions standards for cars much newer than the vintage cars born date). Now, if the newer cars we are talking about are top of the line Audi's, Corvettes, Charger's, Challenger's, Tesla's, Porsche's, Ferrari's, etc, it's a different story. But those are not the majority of new cars. And, if I sank that kind of money into my vintage cars, I would be up with them (in some respects) too.
Just spreading the awareness that many (not most) vintage car owners set their cars up to "appear vintage" while being quite a bit modernized (including things like 4 wheel disk brakes, quieting mat panels under the carpet, better suspensions (sometimes even better frames), computer controlled ignition & fuel injection systems, etc). And my 79 stick shift Trans Am handled 8 inches of snow way better than my friends much newer Ford F350 Dually truck.
 

Digby

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You can't remove the influence of the mastering engineer. I have plenty of CD recordings of things I have on vinyl that sound 'amped up' on CD to me. I prefer the vinyl, in spite of the flaws on the vinyl format.

Digital mastering can be a blessing or a curse. Something about vinyl, namely older vinyl, seems to be more limiting and fewer people are involved in the final result. Within the genres of music I listen to, I tend to get a more consistent sound from vinyl. I have stuff on vinyl that I will listen to, but the CD remains in its case. I don't sit looking at the sleeve, so I put it down to mastering differences.
 

dualazmak

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You can't remove the influence of the mastering engineer. I have plenty of CD recordings of things I have on vinyl that sound 'amped up' on CD to me.

A essentially agree with you, and the "influence" would be dependent on the nature of the original recording (analog or digital) and remastering engineer for CD re-release.

I recently revived my treasure TT DENON DP-57L + DENON DL-301II (MC) in my PC-DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo setup (please refer to my post here and here), and I too did so far two comparative listening sessions for real time on-the-fly LP playback vs. the remastered CD; please refer to my post here.
 

teashea

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I recently put together a nice 2.1 music only system ($3K USD range) and use streaming (Spotify HQ and Qobuz <I'm a beta tester in US>) as my source. I'm extremely happy with the results - the sound quality is amazing, everything I had hoped for, and impresses me more everytime I listen.

I keep seeing, especially on Reddit/Audiophile, many, many turntable setups feeding similarly nice or better equipment. I'm familiar with the science behind it, but curious as to the appeal. The arguments for seem to be an "organic" sound that many prefer. I'm curious, but not sure I want to invest several hundred more dollars on an appropriate rig, not to mention cost of albums. I'm not looking to challenge anyone's preferences, but am looking for a better understanding of the appeal?

For those who like listening to turntables on their main systems, why should I consider putting money into this? Can you help me understand why you like listening to records better than HQ streaming?

Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions.
It is not because the sound is accurate - quite the opposite. Turntables / vinyl have low and high frequencies cut off and they add distortion. However, this can make a recording sound "warmer." But mostly ---- because they are a lot of fun to play with. I have eight turntables and 20 cartidges. Quite enjoyable. For top quality sound, I stream.
 

teashea

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Nostalgia, The long and short of it, that's the main attraction!
Let's be honest, on it's best day, with the worlds best vinyl gear and the best pressed LP, if the same master was recorded to a RedBook digital CD, the CD would cream the LP in every measurable and audible area of sound quality..
If you want to get into vinyl for any reason you've ever heard expressed beside SQ, that's fine. We all have our toys and enjoy playing with them.
In my opinion, if you have some spare money to spend on your system, spend it on something that can make a real improvement of your enjoyment. Get some multichannel gear and start adding that option to your listening pleasure.
It is not just nostalgia. A lot of younger people like vinyl. It is brand new to them.
 

DanielT

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.... Turntables / vinyl have low and high frequencies cut off and they add distortion. However, this can make a recording sound "warmer." But mostly ---- because they are a lot of fun to play with. I have eight turntables and 20 cartidges. Quite enjoyable. For top quality sound, I stream.
Reminiscent of what you can hear said about tube amplifiers.

Maybe turntables/vinyl to create "tube sound"?:)

Tube amplifiers can be really expensive. Cheaper with turntables/vinyl. Okay, there are really expensive turntables, but you can get a decent one for around $200-300.For $200-300 you don't get a decent tube amp, as far as I know.
 
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