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Turntables - help me understand the appeal?

MoreWatts

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I posted this in the recent VPI Classic thread, but I thought I'd voice my sentiments in this more general thread. The posted quote is from the VPI thread. My sentiments are that there is no reason to begin to buy vinyl, but if you have it, why not give it some use.

Other people see vinyl for what it is; an older and inferior medium that costs a lot of money and exhibits a lot of physical wear. They don't like it, but that doesn't mean that they hate it. It simply means that they don't support fanaticism based on illogical and unscientific ideas.
Many of us long time music fans are basically stuck with 1500 slabs of toxic waste, collected over 50 years. Discogs tells me my vinyl is a collection of $4 albums, each offered by 40 sellers, so yeah, it'll sell/s. They are difficult to hide in any decor space. I'm in the process of reviving my vinyl rig, just to make use of it. There is some jazz I love that is not on streaming services and is rare/unavailable on CD, but my brain has so far fought off the vinyl rip time-suck. I'm sure there are plenty of ASR devotees in similar situations. Boomer inheritors are a generation that is well-versed in vinyl disposal, or are modern turntable shoppers.
 

RCAguy

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Why still have a turntable? Above are many of the reasons. I’ll add that 140yr of recorded history are on records, but most are not in digital form. Much of the growing digital library is by restorers (like me) from these disks when no usable tape is available. For example a few of the wonderful sounding 75 "binaural" (dual-monaural band stereo) LPs by Emory Cook - see paper "Cook Binaural Archiving Project" at www.filmaker.com/papers.htm. Conservator level alignment tools, stylus choices, the science of wear v audio performance, proper cartridge loading, maker instructions for the preamp and transcription tonearms I use are in my Phonograph book 2nd ed.
 

MattHooper

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I posted this in the recent VPI Classic thread, but I thought I'd voice my sentiments in this more general thread. The posted quote is from the VPI thread. My sentiments are that there is no reason to begin to buy vinyl,

I find it fascinating that the idea that there is "no reason to get in to vinyl at this point" generally relies on ignoring most of the reasons people are getting in to vinyl :)


but if you have it, why not give it some use.

Yes I can sort of see that point. I mean, on one hand, if you aren't in to vinyl...why would you still have some substantial collection of records? I guess I can think of the fact I had some batch of my old records lying around for years in the basement, but then again I did have a turntable I could throw in to my system once in a while for a nostalgic trip. Maybe others are in this position. But if one is in the 'I gave up on vinyl years ago, good riddance' then it makes more sense to dump whatever vinyl you have. It's "not for you."

Nice to hear it seems you are getting some use and enjoyment from your records!

There is some jazz I love that is not on streaming services and is rare/unavailable on CD, but my brain has so far fought off the vinyl rip time-suck.

For me ripping my whole CD collection was a total time-suck. It almost became soul-sucking. It just took forever. So glad that is behind me.
 

Sal1950

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My sentiments are that there is no reason to begin to buy vinyl, but if you have it, why not give it some use.
The smartest use would be to sell it while prices are at ridiculous levels and use the money to upgrade your Hi Fi.
Maybe to go multich if you havn't already, you'll never look back. ;)
 

MoreWatts

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The smartest use would be to sell it while prices are at ridiculous levels
Discogs tells me my vinyl is a collection of $4 albums, each offered by 40 sellers, so yeah, it'll sell/s.
I think you missed a detail in my post. ;)
 

Sal1950

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I think you missed a detail in my post
Maybe, but 1500 LP's at $4 each isn't exactly pocket change.
I ran into the same when I sold off my collection. The average stack of 1960-2000 pop-rock LP's isn't worth a fortune, there's just a ton available.
What made my stack somewhat more valuable were the large numbers of stuff like MFSL's and other half speed mastered, etc, etc
"audiophile" pressings. The MOFI stuff may have taken a hit due to recent revelations ? LOL
 

EJ3

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For those who like listening to turntables on their main systems, why should I consider putting money into this? Can you help me understand why you like listening to records better than HQ streaming?

Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions.
My system is 2.2
I have records dating from as early as 1927 (the year my father was born).
And many ethnic records of Gullah (spoken on the Islands where I grew up during my USA times) and of Austrian (Salzburg region, mostly the dialect songs from the country-side there [where I spent a lot of my child hood & into my mid 20's also]).
For these I have 2 turntables, one set up for the earlier so called "shellac" records (a DUAL 1229 with an old SHURE MONO cartridge for the old 78 RPM stuff. I can change this out with an additional SHURE V15 TYPE IV set up for the newer mono "vinyl" LP's.
For the even newer "microgroove stereo LP's I have a Technics SL-M3 (1984-1988 computer controlled servo linear tracking turntable [if you have never seen one of these in action, I highly recommend looking them up on YouTube]). This "linear tracking" eliminates inner grove distortion as a problem. But because it is a T4P (a P-Mount with very specific specifications), it adds a complication, in that these P-Mounts are not common. I am using a SHURE ULTRA 300 cartridge at the moment (and have several lesser SHURE T4P Mounts and one Technics cartridge (the original one that came on the turntable, can't remember the model right now).
It happens that JICO makes styli that, while not exactly the same sounding as the original SHURE styli, fit and are close enough (some very, very close) that they can be equalized to sound match the original SHURES (or even better: room EQ to flat & adjust to your liking , like adding spices to a recipe, so to speak).
I still by new LP's from time to time (and I have many CD, DVD, Blu Ray & 4K disks for my oPPo 205 UDP to play. I also have some digital downloads.
As to the future of my collection (and collecting): I plan to digitize everything I have on record and disk, starting about a year from now (when I expect to retire). And to have it all stored digitally. But, I will continue to purchase LP's, CD's, DVD's, Blu Ray's & 4K as long as they are available.
Streaming from a source material that I don't own, is highly unlikely (unless I am browsing to find something I want to own).
Now, should you spend the money to get a turntable & curate LP's? Strictly from a financial perspective? No Strictly from a sound perspective? No
If it's because you happen to like LP's & the type of care involved (occasional deep cleaning with a record cleaning machine of some sort [preferably before the first play of the record], the cleaning with a record brush & the other side) before each play, the obtaining and use of proper anti-static, anti-dust sleeves and a liteny of other things that those of us who grew up with these machines that require a bit of maintenance from time to time, then the enjoyment of how amazing that dragging a rock threw a groove can make music that, at it's best, can sometimes be hard to decide that it really is not as good as digital (especially in a home environment that has a bit of ambient background noise), then it might be for you.
But if you are not prone to tinkering, being meticulous and fastidious, then it's not likely to be for you.
Unless you are just following some of the herd that took off on a retro tangent.
If I had not acquired the gear that I have as I went along, would I now start getting into LP's?
I love what I have, I really do, but I must say that the most likely answer would be NO! Unless I was a "trust fund baby".
And I didn't even cover the what is now very esoteric quad stuff I have. There are too many rabbit holes to go down to even start to get involved with it.
I would say, if you don't already have the LP's (that you have kept in excellent shape) & better than average gear to play them on (much of the gear can be used for digital, if it's good enough), pay attention to Sal1950 and go that way.
 
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killdozzer

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I think you missed a detail in my post. ;)
To hell with discogs. Second hand records are reaching crazy prices as is the case with all fads. Don't sell through discogs. Put up an ad and sell on your own. I bought a record I was looking for for 5$, but it had some noticeable crackle, so I kept looking for a mint one, or excellent... It sells for 30$ now through ads. And it's not Dark Side of the Moon. It's some local shite no one cares about (??).

I'd agree with @Sal1950 it's a sellers market now. My 1982 TT went up to 200-250$! A lot of easily impressionable fools out there. I mean, where were they 10 years ago? Records are the same, they sound the same as 10 years ago and TT's perform the same as 10 years ago. I guess they were waiting for a cue. 10 years ago my 1982 turntable went for 100$ if well preserved.

And how about new records, if double, they go for 50$ (??) And you still have to flip them and can't enjoy the entire album from beginning to end! :D;)
 

Killingbeans

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To hell with discogs. Second hand records are reaching crazy prices as is the case with all fads.

That's definitely true. Last time I moved I decided to sell my turntable and vinyl collection. It wasn't a big or fancy collection, but I sold it to the nearest hipster vinyl hangout and got enough money to pay the deposit on my new apartment. I wouldn't have been able to do that with Discogs.
 

MattHooper

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To hell with discogs. Second hand records are reaching crazy prices as is the case with all fads.

“Fad”

LOL.

16 years of steadily rising sales for vinyl. That’s just about the length of time the ascent of CDs lasted before they began their decline.

Even last year vinyl sales rose another 22% and it’s forecast sales will continue to rise in 2023.

“Fad.” :


19789999.jpg
 
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Endibol

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I recently put together a nice 2.1 music only system ($3K USD range) and use streaming (Spotify HQ and Qobuz <I'm a beta tester in US>) as my source. I'm extremely happy with the results - the sound quality is amazing, everything I had hoped for, and impresses me more everytime I listen.

I keep seeing, especially on Reddit/Audiophile, many, many turntable setups feeding similarly nice or better equipment. I'm familiar with the science behind it, but curious as to the appeal. The arguments for seem to be an "organic" sound that many prefer. I'm curious, but not sure I want to invest several hundred more dollars on an appropriate rig, not to mention cost of albums. I'm not looking to challenge anyone's preferences, but am looking for a better understanding of the appeal?

For those who like listening to turntables on their main systems, why should I consider putting money into this? Can you help me understand why you like listening to records better than HQ streaming?

Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions.
I recently invested in a turntable and a bunch of good quality jazz records (blue note, AAA mastering). The sound quality isn't better than streaming, often even worse. The big difference is in the fact that you get into the mood by spending time and attention to enjoying music. Putting the record on the turn table, dropping the needle into the groove, walking to the sofa and simply listen to a number of tracks on one side of the record. No urge, nor possibility, to zap from one track to another. Just listen to the complete sequence of tracks.. It forces you to enjoy tracks you normally would skip when streaming. That's the attraction of vinyl to me: getting away from the hectic pace of modern life.
 
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EJ3

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Still hurts 40 years later. :facepalm:
There are some (maybe more than some) stupid things that I did. I and some of them where expensively inconvenient. But that one wasn't one of them, although I am surprised that that one is not on my list of shame.
 

Sal1950

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“Fad”

LOL.

16 years of steadily rising sales for vinyl. That’s just about the length of time the ascent of CDs lasted before they began their decline.

Even last year vinyl sales rose another 22% and it’s forecast sales will continue to rise in 2023.

“Fad.” :
Matt, In all seriousness I'll equate this to something close to my heart, Harley - Davidsons
We saw an insane market explosion that started in the late 80's and went on for a good 30 years.
In the early - mid 90s I had bikes on back order for over a year and selling at 10 to 20% over retail.
And then one day it was over.
No fad lasts forever and neither will this one.
 

rwortman

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There has been a rise in film photography too. That is also a fad. Nostalgia. Total LP sales in 2021 was 41m. In 1978 it was 341m. CD’s sold 46m and digital download albums 26m. Most of music today is consumed via streaming services. Most people under 40 don’t know why anyone would buy any copy of a recording when you can stream it.
6CF68AC8-5F30-4E17-96D4-EC84C631EA1C.jpeg
 
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