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Turntables - help me understand the appeal?

Xulonn

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spent ages coming up with the perfect tagging system for all classical works (not as simple as people might think haha!), as well as file naming and folder organization, etc., so that sorting and searching would be natural and easy for what I wanted (you have to take into account various systems and the way they sort numerically and alphabetically with files and so on, it wasn't logical numeric order, so leading zeros were required--thanks Microsoft haha!).
I agree about tagging issues with classical, and would add that jazz, with its fluid mix of artists, bands and combos also presents issues for me in organization.

This comment inspired me to start a new thread on the subject of organizing and editing folders, filenames and metatdata.
 

watchnerd

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I agree about tagging issues with classical, and would add that jazz, with its fluid mix of artists, bands and combos also presents issues for me in organization.

This comment inspired me to start a new thread on the subject of organizing and editing folders, filenames and metatdata.
On LP, I only collect jazz (albeit via a broad definition), but this issue hits me on Discogs, too.

If I search my collection for, say, "Bill Evans", I get not only the albums where he is the bandleader, but also where he is the sideman.

Luckily, my LP collection is only ~400 so the chaos isn't that bad, but if I do the same thing in Roon to my digital collection (plus Tidal streaming) the results are overly numerous.
 

graz_lag

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Can we classify this as a 'circular economy'?

hobbies-leisure-vinyl-record_collections-records-lps-45s-ksmn4667_low.jpg
?
 
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MattHooper

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I find it slightly odd that the vinyl revival includes classical music for this reason. I can understand the attraction of something physical, the cover art and the tactile feel of a mechanical format but in the case of classical having to keep changing sides and discs during a performance just sucks. I recently bought the DG re-issued of Bernstein's Beethoven cycle with the VPO, it's a wonderful set and includes a blu-ray. I don't think the high res upsampling does anything but the blu ray includes a surround sound version which is excellent and puts the whole set on a single disc. When I have read online reviews etc there are people insisting that the much more expensive vinyl edition is better and that any serious fans will buy the vinyl. Why-oh-why would you pay about five times more and lose the surround mix and have to keep changing discs for the same master as the CD set? To me that is bonkers.
I completely understand your puzzlement! CD was the killer app for classical music and I notice that no group abandoned vinyl for CD as quickly and gleefully as classical musical enthusiasts. In fact I ended up with my father in laws cast off micro seiki turntable because he’d stopped using it as soon as he could for CDs. No wow/flutter, silent background, lower distortion, wider dynamic range? Made for classical! Like other classical music enthusiasts my FIL is puzzled as to why anyone would want to listen to vinyl.

I thoroughly enjoy classical and especially soundtracks on vinyl, depending on the pressing, sometimes as much or more than on CD/streaming. String sounds - solo but especially massed - have rarely sounded good to me on digital. I don’t blame digital per se as strings are a particularly difficult sound to record and reproduce. It’s so easy to end up with thin, or harsh wiry sound. As someone who played analog and digital keyboards for many years I am allergic to the sound of sampled string patches. And too often orchestral strings in orchestras strike me as having that glassy/wiry/canned sound on CD that I associate with keyboard strings. Every time I’m in the presence of real strings I’m struck with how poor the reproduced strings sound.

For whatever reason the “best” string sound I’ve enjoyed on my system has come from vinyl. Whatever distortion may be part of the equation to my ears many of my vinyl records produce a strings with a beautiful combination of vividness, bow texture, and silky smoothness that sounds more satisfying and reminds me more of the real thing.

I’ve seen tons of vinyl afficianados say the same.

That of course neither means the vinyl is more accurate nor that someone else wouldn’t hear it differently and much prefer the strengths of digital for strings.

But since you were puzzled and given the remit of this thread...there’s one explanation.
 

watchnerd

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Can we classify this as a 'circular economy'?

View attachment 30925 ?

Too true, even at a personal level.

Next to my LP cabinet are two milkcrates full of LPs that I've deemed 'unworthy' of being in my collection....which will get traded in to the local record store for store credit, which will result in a new group of LPs that will mostly be unworthy.

On the flip side, just got a shipment of 19 200gm 45 RPM LPs today. I haven't had a bad one of those yet, although damn you have to flip them 2x as much.
 

Zog

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Then I ripped the majority of my CD collection and spent ages coming up with the perfect tagging system for all classical works (not as simple as people might think haha!), as well as file naming and folder organization, etc., so that sorting and searching would be natural and easy for what I wanted (you have to take into account various systems and the way they sort numerically and alphabetically with files and so on, it wasn't logical numeric order, so leading zeros were required--thanks Microsoft haha!). Then I found random clicks as files got tiny corruptions for no apparent reason, which is something I never had to worry about with just playing the CD. It made it like listening to LP or cassette for me, having to wonder if I'd be taken out of the ecstasy of my music by a stupid and very audible glitch.
This is my scenario too. Good file organisation, renaming, and tagging! What I routinely do however is add some parity to each folder. I use Quickpar and set it to a redundancy of about half a %. You can make your parity files as many and as large as you like. It does happen occasionally that a file gets corrupted but with this method they are repaired in less than a minute.
 

Zerimas

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Sadly, turntables are getting a free ride in terms of objective testing with most "reviews" barely scratching the surface of measurable parameters.

When did you last see a rumble figure for a turntable measured?
A speed deviation for applied load characteristics?
Arm/cartridge tracking ability tests?
etc. etc.
Oh man. Speaking of measurements you should check out the service manual for Hitachi HT-L70. I am sure there are other players that boast a similarly comprehensive set of measurements, but I haven't seem (because they aren't relevant to me—I like reading stuff but I am not about to go about reading a bunch of service manuals for tables I don't own)
Specs.png


They measure the speed drift over time and with temperature! "I wonder how well my turntable will keep speed if I leave it running for 8 hours?", you ask. Worry not: Hitachi has tested that. "I live in the desert. The temperature shifts greatly during the transition from day to night. How well will my turntable keep speed?", you ponder. "Hold my beer", replies Hitachi.

Say what you will about the actual table itself, but I don't think Hitachi was slacking when they set about measuring the thing.
 

Wombat

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Oh man. Speaking of measurements you should check out the service manual for Hitachi HT-L70. I am sure there are other players that boast a similarly comprehensive set of measurements, but I haven't seem (because they aren't relevant to me—I like reading stuff but I am not about to go about reading a bunch of service manuals for tables I don't own) View attachment 30956

They measure the speed drift over time and with temperature! "I wonder how well my turntable will keep speed if I leave it running for 8 hours?", you ask. Worry not: Hitachi has tested that. "I live in the desert. The temperature shifts greatly during the transition from day to night. How well will my turntable keep speed?", you ponder. "Hold my beer", replies Hitachi.

Say what you will about the actual table itself, but I don't think Hitachi was slacking when they set about measuring the thing.
The good old days. :)
 

graz_lag

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watchnerd

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Blumlein 88

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Easily I'd pick the Oracle Alexandria. Be nice if it had a better arm, though I'm not familiar with the Oracle arm on it. Arm is probably not bad. Maybe they'd move the ET arm onto it.

Of course the Delphi was really pretty:
1565376065863.png
 

graz_lag

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How much of a pain is that air system?

Damn slick...gotta say...
Impossible to buy it unless you live within 3 miles or so from the tuning lab! I was on the phone with them today, no way to get it shipped - even packed in the most possible secured & armed package ...
 

graz_lag

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For all I'm not a vinyl person and am not nostalgic for the analogue era, I will admit that nothing beats turntables when it comes to impressive audio jewellery.
04.jpg
 

LuckyLuke575

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Love to see it. Here's my old Kenwood I was talking about the other day. Getting ready to set it up in my new place...finally... View attachment 30878
Thank god, finally seeing a turntable after seeing psychology.com for a while on this thread lol

Quartz lock direct drive seems like the way to go to avoid speed issues, also anti-skating. Most of the high quality older generation turntables have those features. I'm on the lookout for a decent older generation turntable. I missed an immaculate high end Dual turntable that was in the window of a second hand hifi store close to where I live. I'll be sure to be on the lookout for one like this again. Although I see that the higher end new Audio Technica models also have all these features. The only issue is to find one without USB output and phono pre amp.
 
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Sal1950

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