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Turntables and Tonearms | Designs

NorthSky

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#1


http://mag.webondemand.com/ultimate-turntable-av-designhaus-derenevill/

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...tangential-pivot-tonearms-30.html#post2873072

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Latest tangential tonearm design from Rainer:


Published on May 13, 2016 ↑

On set-up day at Munich High End 2016 Analogplanet.com editor Michael Fremer encountered Tone Tool Dereneville DTT 02 tone arm designer Rainer Horstmann with his disassembled arm in a box. On Saturday he watched the arm in action on the Tone Tool Sprocket turntable. There was no way to hear it, but there's always next year! And check out the other Tone Tool turntables on display.

 

TBone

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#2
not a big fan of tangential arms, to my mind, they trade 1 issue/problem for too many others. Funny, two days ago I was in the vicinity of around 30 different hi-end tables/arms, and I don't recall seeing one tangy. Stayed there 4 hours, made no attempt at listening to any of em.
 

TBone

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#4
I luv older, real world turntable engineering ...

the table below (web picture) is old Alphason Sonata designed by Mike Knowles, (mine, in parts, waiting my undivided attention) ...


It was unique then, and even today. Those three black pillars are well damped spring assemblies, the twisted knobs on top levels the hanging -deceptively heavy- "pig" iron sub-plinth (pictured below). Because it weighs so much and hangs, with the right viscous oil and proper belt, the relationship between motor and sub-plinth should remain static during revolution (belt drive/suspension designs Achilles heal).



The platter is a relatively light acrylic design, more common today, but unique back then. The bearing (phosphor bronze) is very durable, and stethoscope-dead-quiet; a unique ball-on-ball design, the bottom ball a softer material by design, stationary and bathed in viscous oil, it's meant to absorb minimal wear (and can be easily replaced).

I received this table from Gerard @UHF magazine over a decade ago, their reference table for years. A very rigid design, along with it's very rigid ceramic bearing/titanium tonearm, it has much potential to sound as good, or better, as near anything equatable($) today. I talked to Gerard at TAVES a few years back, the first thing he inquired was what I'd done with this 'table to date. Sadly, not enough ...
 
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NorthSky

NorthSky

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Thread Starter #5
I was a subscriber to UHF (Canadian audio mag) for few years.

I started this thread because I love complex turntable and tonearm designs; including the Tangential Tracking Tone Arm designed ones by Rainer.
Some TT and TA and Cart are pure beauty of technical labor of love and dedication for the ultimate precision.

When I first saw the one pictured first in my original post, I was blown away, radically.
Sure, there are others too very technically and scientifically/mathematically and beautifully designed. But Rainer attracted my imagination in force.
Why? Because that's what it's all about...work, tweak, improve, precise engineering, creativity, ingenuity, all that jazz.
And his designs, to me, reflect that the best. Sky's the limit and financial provisions not a consideration.

This is open to all forms; simple and complex. ...All prices.
To deny my love to this piece of audio mechanism I grew up with would be like not going to the confessional on Sundays.
Some of my best friends are . . . the turntable music people.
 

TBone

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#8
well, perhaps I've been jaded over time, have three or more tables at any given time, my peers own very expensive/systems and 'tables, plus in TO, so easy to venture out and see/hear near any turntable available today, at any cost. Far more interested in discussing real-world engineering, real world turntables, but carry on, your thread ...
 
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NorthSky

NorthSky

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Thread Starter #9
Monsieur TBone, I'm the last species on Earth to ever owned three turntables @ once; Akai, Pioneer and Sony. :D

This thread ain't about me, it's about all our love. I still have few good LPs in me, but gathering dust right now.
I don't want to show my old TTs, I want to express my interest right now in Rainer's designs, in particular in his tangential (laser) tracking tonerarms.
Plus more...all TTs and tonearms and carts and from all origins and designs.
The two you posted I like, and the second one reminds me of ... because S arms are the ones I used the most.

It's a random thread, where we can share what we like without owning it. Or we can own it too, or owned it.
If my grandchildren want to start a vinyl music collection, I probably would recommend a solid engineering turntable with accurate tonearm, non-feeback design.
...One that can play good. Anyway, they're into Facebook and tablet streaming. :D

The main thing is to be happy with what we don't have. Because what we already have we already know what happiness means. ;)
Rainer is a nice man, cautious, meticulous, ingenious, and we need more people like him. If a fly or a spider was about to walk on his LP, he would simply let it be.
I would love to see Michael Fremer review his latest tone arm, the Dereneville DTT-02 model. She's not the most expensive one, but she sure looks very well built and designed to play good.
 

RayDunzl

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RayDunzl

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#12
We still have a long way to go.
 

Cosmik

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#14
We still have a long way to go.
Personally, I don't think so. I think that what we have is good enough (damn good, actually), and people will still be listening to the same types of system (probably worse) in another 100 years' time. I don't think domestic hi fi has changed a lot in the last 50 years - in fact for the vinyl enthusiasts it hasn't changed at all.
 

TBone

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#15
Personally, I don't think so. I think that what we have is good enough (damn good, actually), and people will still be listening to the same types of system (probably worse) in another 100 years' time. I don't think domestic hi fi has changed a lot in the last 50 years - in fact for the vinyl enthusiasts it hasn't changed at all.
Agreed, I haven't seen or heard any major advancements w/hi-end/real world turntables, in a very long time. I have much respect for the famed LP12, but near every individual "upgrade" along its journey addressed major weaknesses inherited within it's original design (also copied). Many prior turntable manufacturers had already addressed those very same issues decades earlier. The Keel and the Radical / DC motor upgrades, case in point.

That said, reasonable priced, cost-effective tables (ex: Rega, OL and Projects) have certainly improved ... and tonearms are much better today than ever.
 

Sal1950

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#16
HK ST8 w/ Rabco designed straight line arm.
Ran one of these for many years, a very successful mechanical arm design that gave me 100s% reliable operation. Last incarnation had a Dynavetor Ruby MC cartridge installed into a stand alone PS Audo PS3 phono amp. Sounded great if you could ignore all the rice krispies and other vinyl artifact. :D
st8.jpg
 

Sal1950

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#18
Linear drive ... :cool: ...Supposedly overcoming some flaws of straight and "S" arms. ...The last cut.



Magnetic Linear Tonearm Bearing
That looks like a sweet design, any more info on it? I was always a sucker for the SLT arms. I think the air bearings had great prospects except for the air pump noise. Not a problem if you had a basement to install the pump in. LOL
 
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NorthSky

NorthSky

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Thread Starter #19
Sure:

Turntable + cartridge: BERGMANN AUDIO SINDRE + AIR TIGHT PC-1
Price:
55 000 zł + 19 500 zł*

http://highfidelity.pl/@main-81&lang=en

* In US dollars (MSRP):
1. Turntable & Linear Tonearm = $14,000
2. Cartridge = $5,000

One Polish Zloty = 0.26 US dollar (one quarter).
 
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Sal1950

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Sure:

Turntable + cartridge: BERGMANN AUDIO SINDRE + AIR TIGHT PC-1
Price:
55 000 zł + 19 500 zł*

http://highfidelity.pl/@main-81&lang=en

* In US dollars (MSRP):
1. Turntable & Linear Tonearm = $14,000
2. Cartridge = $5,000

One Polish Zloty = 0.26 US dollar (one quarter).
Kool, thanks Bob. I've seen that turntable a few times before in pictures but for whatever reason couldn't locate that link to the tech info.
Being a machinist/mechanic I was always fascinated by the ultra clean design of the arm and equally by the description I've saw here and elsewhere, "Magnetic Linear Tonearm Bearing"? The specs just describe it as a standard air bearing design, don't know where the "magnetic" part comes in? In any case I really admire the implementation.
Along with a nice belt drive high mass platter that also is suspended on a air bearing, it should be a nice table and a point of pride in the owners system.
 
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