Mr. Swordfish
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Thanks to everyone who commented in the previous thread Recommendations for digitizing vinyl. Starting a new thread here to compare two viable solutions.
As mentioned in the previous thread, we already own a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo turntable, but I wanted to keep that in the den with the stereo, so I was looking for a setup in the computer room that was at least comparable. I settled on the Audio Technica LP-120XUSB as probably being "good enough" for my purposes while being a one-stop-purchase with cartridge, phono preamp, and A/D converter all built into the device. At just a bit over $300, it was an attractive option. No additional gear to buy or to interface.
After setting it up in the computer room and digitizing an LP, it was then a simple operation to do an A/B comparison of the two to evaluate the sound. Is one noticeably better sounding than the other? Is there much difference at all?
With my wife's assistance - she's a long time audio professional, now semi retired, I was in pro audio, but left to do software about 30 years ago. She loves the sound of vinyl and bought the fancy turntable when our old Yamaha TT died a few years back. I have no particular love for vinyl. We made no attempt to do a serious A vs B comparison of the TTS themselves, instead we just listened to the "Systems in place, as built" as described below:
SETUP A: Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo turntable with the Sumiko Rainier Cartridge that came with it. Don't know how many hours the stylus has, but I'm fairly certain it's well between the break-in period and being worn out. Connected to a Denon DRA 395 receiver (phono input) that drives a pair of Vienna Acoustics Bach Grand speakers.
SETUP B: Audio Technica LP-120XUSB turntable with the stock AT-VM95E cartridge/stylus (eliptical, bonded, brand new with no break-in). Built-in phono preamp and A/D converter with USB output. I digitized an LP using Waveshop on a WIndows 11 Dell desktop PC (16bit 48k). The .wav file was then played back in Waveshop, using my external M Audio M-Track Plus as a D/A converter. That output feeds a Behringer XENYX 1204, which drives about 50 feet of analog cable that plugs into an aux input of the Denon receiver. (balanced output, single-ended input at the receiver with pin 3 floating)
We played the LP on the Pro ject TT and simultaneously played the .wav file on the PC. So, we were comparing one signal by plugging the TT directly into the receiver's phono input (using whatever fancy cables came from Pro Ject,) with another signal that had done a round-trip A-D-A, run through a cheap analog mixer, and then about 50 feet of Belden 8451 or similar. As I said, we weren't trying for any sort of exact comparison of the TTs themselves, just listening for differences in the "as built" set ups. So how did they compare?
At first, the difference was obvious and impossible to ignore. There was a very loud, audible 120hz hum coming from the Pro ject. Apparently, the cat had crawled behind the stereo and managed to disconnect the ground cable of the TT. Once that was re-attached and we level matched, we were ready for the comparison.
The one and only test record was side one of Kind of Blue, the same piece of vinyl on the Pro ject as was digitized earlier. Did the two sound different? Once we had fixed an issue in the "actually broken" category, we both agreed that they might. But that the differences were subtle if there were any. She had me switch between sources, but had to ask repeatedly which was which.
I'd like to tell myself that if someone took the trouble to do a proper double blind ABX trial, I'd be able to find some telltale difference, because a signal path that different should result in some audible difference. But I can't say that I could hear a difference in the short listening trial we did. OTOH, I'm not going to claim that there is no audible difference.
So, what does this all prove? Not much, but it puts most of our concerns to rest. I don't think I'm going to miss anything by using the AT & it's built in preamp and A/D converter to digitize my old records. She was worried that the AT would sound better than her fancy turntable, but that's not the case either.
As mentioned in the previous thread, we already own a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo turntable, but I wanted to keep that in the den with the stereo, so I was looking for a setup in the computer room that was at least comparable. I settled on the Audio Technica LP-120XUSB as probably being "good enough" for my purposes while being a one-stop-purchase with cartridge, phono preamp, and A/D converter all built into the device. At just a bit over $300, it was an attractive option. No additional gear to buy or to interface.
After setting it up in the computer room and digitizing an LP, it was then a simple operation to do an A/B comparison of the two to evaluate the sound. Is one noticeably better sounding than the other? Is there much difference at all?
With my wife's assistance - she's a long time audio professional, now semi retired, I was in pro audio, but left to do software about 30 years ago. She loves the sound of vinyl and bought the fancy turntable when our old Yamaha TT died a few years back. I have no particular love for vinyl. We made no attempt to do a serious A vs B comparison of the TTS themselves, instead we just listened to the "Systems in place, as built" as described below:
SETUP A: Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo turntable with the Sumiko Rainier Cartridge that came with it. Don't know how many hours the stylus has, but I'm fairly certain it's well between the break-in period and being worn out. Connected to a Denon DRA 395 receiver (phono input) that drives a pair of Vienna Acoustics Bach Grand speakers.
SETUP B: Audio Technica LP-120XUSB turntable with the stock AT-VM95E cartridge/stylus (eliptical, bonded, brand new with no break-in). Built-in phono preamp and A/D converter with USB output. I digitized an LP using Waveshop on a WIndows 11 Dell desktop PC (16bit 48k). The .wav file was then played back in Waveshop, using my external M Audio M-Track Plus as a D/A converter. That output feeds a Behringer XENYX 1204, which drives about 50 feet of analog cable that plugs into an aux input of the Denon receiver. (balanced output, single-ended input at the receiver with pin 3 floating)
We played the LP on the Pro ject TT and simultaneously played the .wav file on the PC. So, we were comparing one signal by plugging the TT directly into the receiver's phono input (using whatever fancy cables came from Pro Ject,) with another signal that had done a round-trip A-D-A, run through a cheap analog mixer, and then about 50 feet of Belden 8451 or similar. As I said, we weren't trying for any sort of exact comparison of the TTs themselves, just listening for differences in the "as built" set ups. So how did they compare?
At first, the difference was obvious and impossible to ignore. There was a very loud, audible 120hz hum coming from the Pro ject. Apparently, the cat had crawled behind the stereo and managed to disconnect the ground cable of the TT. Once that was re-attached and we level matched, we were ready for the comparison.
The one and only test record was side one of Kind of Blue, the same piece of vinyl on the Pro ject as was digitized earlier. Did the two sound different? Once we had fixed an issue in the "actually broken" category, we both agreed that they might. But that the differences were subtle if there were any. She had me switch between sources, but had to ask repeatedly which was which.
I'd like to tell myself that if someone took the trouble to do a proper double blind ABX trial, I'd be able to find some telltale difference, because a signal path that different should result in some audible difference. But I can't say that I could hear a difference in the short listening trial we did. OTOH, I'm not going to claim that there is no audible difference.
So, what does this all prove? Not much, but it puts most of our concerns to rest. I don't think I'm going to miss anything by using the AT & it's built in preamp and A/D converter to digitize my old records. She was worried that the AT would sound better than her fancy turntable, but that's not the case either.
