turntable reviews?

[dpturner]

i notice a distinct lack of turntable reviews/testing here. is that intentional, or just lack of interest? perhaps too much dependence on cartridge choice and the fiddly nature of correctly setting up a turntable? just curious, but also am considering a new turntable in the next year or so, and i could use some nuts-and-bolts guidelines in addition to all the subjective reviews (which are easy to find).

dt

 

[JSmith]

The practical dynamic range of an LP may therefore be taken to be about 66dB

... at best;

http://pspatialaudio.com/LP_performance.htm



JSmith

 

[dpturner]

... at best;

http://pspatialaudio.com/LP_performance.htm



JSmith

ok, and? all turntables are equivalent because of their limited dynamic range? i'm asking: has ASR made the decision not to test turntables?

dt

 

[JSmith]

ok, and?

Just providing some measurements and facts to help you start this thread.

has ASR made the decision not to test turntables?

Your question is best directed @amirm.

Personally I don't believe there has been any decision made to not test turntables... just no one has sent any in. Probably because they understand the limitations of this physical medium and also probably due to the fact well performing turntables are generally expensive and fragile.



JSmith

 

[Chazz6]

I got a cheap "vintage" turntable, a Pioneer 112D. Just a novice, but among the points I considered and researched were:

* belt drive or direct drive; the lore seemed to be that direct did not hold steady speed as well over time and was more likely to communicate motor shake into the audible output, except of course the luxury models
* cartridge choice, and whether the turntable had the standard 1/2 inch-mount into the tonearm or not
* how to adjust the tracking weight, anti-skate, and protractor patterns for alignment
* bare turntable feeding into equipment that has a genuine phono input (hence with RIAA equalization) or a table with a built-in phono pre-amp

In my case the turntable feeds into a Yamaha A-S501 integrated amplifier which drives Focal Aria 906 speakers. The setup is pleasing with a record in decent condition. It reveals a lot about the qualities of how the record was recorded and mixed.

I listen at low-moderate volume. I don't have a number for the dynamic range, but with a good record I hear plenty of detail.

 

[Robin L]

ok, and? all turntables are equivalent because of their limited dynamic range? i'm asking: has ASR made the decision not to test turntables?

dt

I suspect that Amir simply doesn't have gear for measuring turntables. My advice is to get one of the new Technics 1200 series turntables. Unless you can avoid getting a turntable, which is a better bet if you haven't already invested in LPs. The issues with LP reproduction: quality control for LPs is terrible, and the biggest negative audible component of inner groove distortion is the groove functionally slowing down as the disc is played. Nothing can be done about that. If you don't already have a large LP collection, this is a good time to avoid building one.

 

[amirm]

I have dabbled in buying test LPs and such for testing. Alas, I am not sure how exact the science is here since the LP itself can have issues. And of course cartridges impact the results. I do plan on doing a test or two at some point just to see where we stand.

 

[amirm]

I suspect that Amir simply doesn't have gear for measuring turntables.

On, my analyzer is fully capable of running such tests. And as I noted, I have some test LPs. What goes on outside of this is the issue.

 

[Robin L]

I have dabbled in buying test LPs and such for testing. Alas, I am not sure how exact the science is here since the LP itself can have issues. And of course cartridges impact the results. I do plan on doing a test or two at some point just to see where we stand.

Every time I saw measurements for speed accuracy and consistency couldn't help but notice that the test discs were off-center. Probably minimally as regards audibility, but enough to require additional computation to remove that eccentricity from the measurement. What's the point of minimal wow and flutter, absolute speed accuracy if all the discs are off?

 

[dpturner]

thanks Amir, i understand it's a can of worms. and yes, i have a bunch of LPs, mostly in good condition, and a 20-year-old music hall turntable. i honestly have no good reason to "upgrade" my TT, other than the normal spending itch...

 

[amirm]

Every time I saw measurements for speed accuracy and consistency couldn't help but notice that the test discs were off-center. Probably minimally as regards audibility, but enough to require additional computation to remove that eccentricity from the measurement. What's the point of minimal wow and flutter, absolute speed accuracy if all the discs are off?

If I did such tests, I would show the FFT so that we can see all the contributions from various frequency modulation sources. And then we can analyze their effect perceptually. But yes, the format has so many variables like this that it is hard to figure out where you hang your hat.

 

[Tom C]

I was very surprised to read here that Amir has been thinking about turntable reviews. I just didn’t expect that. But that is quite exciting news!

 

[restorer-john]

Every time I saw measurements for speed accuracy and consistency couldn't help but notice that the test discs were off-center. Probably minimally as regards audibility, but enough to require additional computation to remove that eccentricity from the measurement. What's the point of minimal wow and flutter, absolute speed accuracy if all the discs are off?

It's not just the wow track test record's eccentricity. You also have the flatness of the record, the eccentricity of the turntable spindle itself, the flatness of the platter, the wow and flutter of the drive system (motor) and the effects of the arm/bearings and cartridge. They all contribute to W&F, with some cancelling, some additive.

The best way is to tap into the FG coil on Direct drive motors for analysis, but that can be argued is not a typical use case.

Wow and Flutter is a bit like SINAD. It lumps together and weights two different characteristics and depending on the relative contributions of each, it can be a useful or a useless metric.

 

[Robin L]

It's not just the wow track test record's eccentricity. You also have the flatness of the record, the eccentricity of the turntable spindle itself, the flatness of the platter, the wow and flutter of the drive system (motor) and the effects of the arm/bearings and cartridge. They all contribute to W&F, with some cancelling, some additive.

The best way is to tap into the FG coil on Direct drive motors for analysis, but that can be argued is not a typical use case.

Wow and Flutter is a bit like SINAD. It lumps together and weights two different characteristics and depending on the relative contributions of each, it can be a useful or a useless metric.

No matter how you slice, that aspect of LP performance is terrible. An excellent argument for digital anything.

 

[JSmith]

Wow... I feel a bit fluttered.



JSmith

 

[Wombat]

Vinyl doesn't wow me, but yes it does.

 

[Phorize]

Vinyl doesn't wow me, but yes it does.

I can sense that this thread may rumble on for some time

 

[restorer-john]

I can sense that this thread may rumble on for some time

It will probably stay on track for a while, then fade out, until someone bumps the thread.

 

[Loathecliff]

I can sense that this thread may rumble on for some time

But there's no 'arm in talking about it ...... sorry

 

[LearningToSmile]

I'd like to see some turntable reviews for sure. I don't know much about vinyl, and it would be nice to learn. I thought about getting a turntable for some vinyls I own as collectors items but it seems despite there being good looking budget options you have to spend quite a bit more to get something that's actually good value? It's hard to tell without experience, with all the mysticism surrounding vinyl it's not easy to cut through the bullshit.