Turntable Resuscitation - Part 3

[GKROOK]

Background
I recently retired and we downsized. One of the benefits is that I could now upgrade my audio system which I did. I was well on my way to creating a great 5.1.4 system. I told myself I am not necessarily going to let my budget be the deciding factor (not a point shared by the wife) but I was going to get what I wanted. And I did until the wife asked how much more I was going to buy and added up what I spent to that point. Hard brake from her at that point! All I really had left to buy was a turntable and cartridge. That will be on hold for a while.
So, I am in the process of resuscitating my 40 yr. old Systemdek IIx with a Profile II tonearm and AT95E which I bought in 1985 and love. It has been in storage, off and on, for the last 25 years but set up and operating fine for the last 5 years. When I initially hooked it up, I leveled it and adjusted the VTF. It sounded great for a little while when I started hearing a noise when I turned it on. I cleaned and lubricated the bearing, which was kind of a pain, but took care of the noise. And then I realized there were issues with the platter and tone arm height.

Part 3
The one thing I am going to do is buy is a new cartridge. Right now, I have an AT95E and I want to upgrade. I use the phono input on my Denon X3800H but I can’t find any specs for this input. My wife has set the budget at $400.00 (I may be able to budge that a little). Or am I overspending? I have been researching my options and have identified these cartridges:
Goldring E4/ Orto 2M Bronze/ Orto 2M Blue/ AT VM 540 ML/ AT VM 740 ML/ AT VM 750 SH I'm liking the 2M Blue or VM540ML.

Suggestions or recommendations? Your thoughts?

Sorry for the long post and thanks for sharing your wisdom.

System: Denon X3800H, Philharmonic HT towers, Philharmonic HT Center Channel, Philharmonic True Mini Monitors (rear), Klipsch R-40-SA (height), SVS SB2000 (subwoofer), Systemdek IIx with Profile II tone arm and AT95E cart, 77" LG C3.

 

[Apesbrain]

The A-T VM95EN and ML are also very good and reasonably priced.

If you don't have one, be sure to get an alignment gauge; a simple one like this will work fine.

 

[Newman]

Why not put all your ‘resuscitation’ posts in one thread and delete the multiple threads?

 

[DWPress]

Sheesh, the guy's only got 3 posts.... Welcome to ASR GKROOK.

I recently inquired about carts here and the unanimous reply was to go for the AT-VM95ML/H but my price range was around $200. There's a thread here with measurements you might want to check out that will give you all kinds of valuable information around recent carts.

​

 

[Chrispy]

Three posts are just harder to read than a single, even if amended/added to....

 

[drmevo]

I’d be careful with the AT carts you listed if the input capacitance is unknown on your Denon’s phono stage. It’s likely higher than the spec AT calls for, which I believe is 100-200 pF total (including tonearm wiring and RCA cables). If you exceed that by much, the sound can be too bright. The 95ML technically has the same spec but many people say you can get away with a bit higher capacitance than the 540/740 series.

If I’m wrong about the Denon, though, and it has, say, 100pF input capacitance, the AT carts are really an exceptional value for the money. I use the VM540ML and don’t plan to change any time soon.

 

[GKROOK]

The A-T VM95EN and ML are also very good and reasonably priced.

If you don't have one, be sure to get an alignment gauge; a simple one like this will work fine.

Thanks. I have a guage. Appreciate the recommendation.

 

[GKROOK]

Why not put all your ‘resuscitation’ posts in one thread and delete the multiple threads?

Well, I was criticized on a post a while ago on another forum for having a long post with multiple questions. Now what do I do? Short answer, whatever gets me helpful responses.

 

[GKROOK]

I’d be careful with the AT carts you listed if the input capacitance is unknown on your Denon’s phono stage. It’s likely higher than the spec AT calls for, which I believe is 100-200 pF total (including tonearm wiring and RCA cables). If you exceed that by much, the sound can be too bright. The 95ML technically has the same spec but many people say you can get away with a bit higher capacitance than the 540/740 series.

If I’m wrong about the Denon, though, and it has, say, 100pF input capacitance, the AT carts are really an exceptional value for the money. I use the VM540ML and don’t plan to change any time soon.

Thanks. Just the type of information I was hoping for. Now I just need to find the info.

 

[Newman]

Well, I was criticized on a post a while ago on another forum for having a long post with multiple questions.

You can’t win!

Now what do I do? Short answer, whatever gets me helpful responses.

Maybe, if all the questions are about the resuscitation project, create one thread for the project, then raise your questions a few at a time.

I’m not trying to be critical, I’m trying to be helpful.

 

[GKROOK]

I’d be careful with the AT carts you listed if the input capacitance is unknown on your Denon’s phono stage. It’s likely higher than the spec AT calls for, which I believe is 100-200 pF total (including tonearm wiring and RCA cables). If you exceed that by much, the sound can be too bright. The 95ML technically has the same spec but many people say you can get away with a bit higher capacitance than the 540/740 series.

If I’m wrong about the Denon, though, and it has, say, 100pF input capacitance, the AT carts are really an exceptional value for the money. I use the VM540ML and don’t plan to change any time soon.

Well, I finally got a response from Denon and the input capacitance of the X3800h is 220 pF. The load capacitance of the AT VM540ml and the AT VM95ml is 100-200 pF. If the tone arm and cable adds another 100 pF, are these cartridges OK to use with the X300h?

 

[Newman]

Well, I finally got a response from Denon and the input capacitance of the X3800h is 220 pF.

Ouch, that is too high.

The load capacitance of the AT VM540ml and the AT VM95ml is 100-200 pF.

Well, by the time you add the 220 of the X3800H plus the 20-ish of the tonearm internal cable plus 80-100 for the connecting cable, you are way too high.

If the tone arm and cable adds another 100 pF, are these cartridges OK to use with the X300h?

No, definitely not.

I am, however, not sure if Denon misunderstood your question and told you the desirable capacitance to connect to the phono input of the X3800H. Because “220 pf” is the typical specified total load for a MM cart.

 

[GKROOK]

Ouch, that is too high.

Well, by the time you add the 220 of the X3800H plus the 20-ish of the tonearm internal cable plus 80-100 for the connecting cable, you are way too high.

No, definitely not.

I am, however, not sure if Denon misunderstood your question and told you the desirable capacitance to connect to the phono input of the X3800H. Because “220 pf” is the typical specified total load for a MM cart.

This was the response I got from Denon:

I understand you are asking about what the capacitance is of the Phono input?
The Input Capacitance of the AVR-X3800H's Phono stage is 220pF.
Seems clear to me. Now I have to find a cartridge that works on a medium mass tone arm with a capacitance around 338 pF. Do you know which cartridge companies have high capacitance cartridges?

 

[JP]

Well, I finally got a response from Denon and the input capacitance of the X3800h is 220 pF. The load capacitance of the AT VM540ml and the AT VM95ml is 100-200 pF. If the tone arm and cable adds another 100 pF, are these cartridges OK to use with the X300h?

Look up the carts in the measurement thread to get a sense for what the FR looks like. The 95ML does ok with higher capacitance, while the 540 does not.