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Turntable platter and record damping

RoA

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Not sure where to put this but are there measurements on vibrations regarding using clamps, weights and different platter mats? I don't know how you would accurately measure vibrations/resonance on the actual record whilst spinning to assess if clamps/weights make a difference and if so, what materials used bring the most benefits, if any. In the same way, how does one measure a headshell or tonearm for resonance?

Everything I read about the above is mostly/exclusively subjective. An example of this is the thread;

 
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Not sure where to put this but are there measurements on vibrations regarding using clamps, weights and different platter mats? I don't know how you would accurately measure vibrations/resonance on the actual record whilst spinning to assess if clamps/weights make a difference and if so, what materials used bring the most benefits, if any. In the same way, how does one measure a headshell or tonearm for resonance?

Everything I read about the above is mostly/exclusively subjective. An example of this is the thread;

I did some casual tests on the effects of platter mats and clamping thus: With turntable (Audio Technica AT-LP120USB) connected to a real time analyzer (built into my Behringer DEQ2496), I lowered the stylus onto a stationary record. Then I set about creating a racket in the vicinity of the turntable by clapping my hands, with and without dust cover installed, tapping on the shelf the turntable sat upon, the plinth, or even the record itself.

Observations:
The turntable's rubber isolation feet seemed to have limited effect on frequencies in the sub-30 Hz region, and such subsonic energy was always present, presumably picked up from the environment.

Dust cover amplifies the tendency for sound energy to be transmitted to the stylus, particularly if dust cover is open.

Even without any platter mat, simply placing a record atop the platter dampened vibration from airborne sonic energy a great deal. And the stock felt slip mat was surprisingly effective too. But records themselves can pick up some of this airborne sonic energy, particularly if slightly warped and not making good contact with the platter, and for this, even gentle clamping action in the label area seemed useful.

What I've done:
Remove dust cover when playing records

Purchase lightweight metal record clamp via AliExpress. Alternately, I could have purchased a record weight, but I wasn't sure if the added weight would be hard on the turntable bearing, so I opted to minimize added weight. Based on prior experiments, I only apply modest clamping force.

Purchased Parks Audio Waxwing DSP phono preamp, a remarkable device which among other things, allows me to filter out subsonic energy from the convenience of my phone, all while observing the effects on my RTA display. I felt that setting the Lo filter to 35 Hz seemed to be ideal. Alternately, replacing the turntable with one with a spring-isolated design (AR, Linn LP12 et al) is an option.

What's missing:
I hadn't thought of a way to gauge vibrations being generated during disk playback via the stylus, nor resonances which might result.
 
Not sure where to put this but are there measurements on vibrations regarding using clamps, weights and different platter mats? I don't know how you would accurately measure vibrations/resonance on the actual record whilst spinning to assess if clamps/weights make a difference and if so, what materials used bring the most benefits, if any. In the same way, how does one measure a headshell or tonearm for resonance?

Everything I read about the above is mostly/exclusively subjective. An example of this is the thread;

@Balle Clorin has measured crosstalk with and without a clamp and found quite systematic differences. There are some "mat" studies as mentioned but none that I know of that measures how it affects measured test signal. With respect to weights, I do not believe in them unless perhaps you use them with an outer ring to flatten the record.
 
My turntable came with the record weight. I use it because I like the way it holds the record firmly against the platter - otherwise it feels a bit slippery.

I investigated weights and clamps early on. Never bothered with a clamp.

There’s a number of YouTube videos demonstrating recordings with and without certain record clamps, and you can hear a difference.
 
I look at weights and clamps generally as silly "audiophile" accessories. I suppose there are poorer mats depending on use, but never had reason to change my Technics SL1200mk2 mat out....but I don't scratch where I might want the vinyl moving on the mat either.
 
When I first got my turntable, I went down the rabbit hole of looking into various platter mats.

I found the idea of the Soundeck vibration isolation products pretty cool: dampened metal. I received a number of their small discs when I was checking out, vibration control for my turntable. And they were really neat in terms of how they killed vibration.
Among other things, I used an electric toothbrush to see how different materials handled that vibration, and the little soundeck discs really killed the sound and vibration.

I ended up ordering their platter mat.

You can see a video demonstration on this page from their website, which is kind of cool showing the vibration damping properties with a motor placed on and off a turntable:


I ended up with their platter mat and I did try it with some records on top. But I either didn’t hear much difference or if anything is sounded to me a little bit off. It’s pretty thick and I had not accommodated for that by changing my VTA or anything. And frankly, I just was a bit lazy about it so in the end, it turned out to be a very useful dust cover, which I leave on the turntable when I’m not using it. Plus, it’s metallic design looks better than any other mat on my big metal turntable:

I don’t have a good picture of it, but here’s an old picture:

1747786863455.jpeg
 
There are various types and sources of vibration.

Some of them (many of them) are noises, road noise, footfall, as well as feedback, that come through either the air, or up through the platform.

These can easily be measured on many turntables, by turning off the motor, and resting the needle on the platter/mat itself (or on a record surface).

This then allows you to modify the platform, for increased damping or reflection/refraction of vibrations, and through experimentation with different solutions, achieve optimum isolation for the TT.

The impact can be quite dramatic - especially for unsprung TT designs - sprung designs often have the benefit of built in isolation!

My Unsprung JVC QL-Y5F had major footfall issues, along with less obvious other vibrations - using this method I completely eliminated the issue.

On the same platform, my sprung Revox B795 had no issues... either before treatment of the platform or after!
 
There are various types and sources of vibration.

Some of them (many of them) are noises, road noise, footfall, as well as feedback, that come through either the air, or up through the platform.

These can easily be measured on many turntables, by turning off the motor, and resting the needle on the platter/mat itself (or on a record surface).

This then allows you to modify the platform, for increased damping or reflection/refraction of vibrations, and through experimentation with different solutions, achieve optimum isolation for the TT.

The impact can be quite dramatic - especially for unsprung TT designs - sprung designs often have the benefit of built in isolation!

My Unsprung JVC QL-Y5F had major footfall issues, along with less obvious other vibrations - using this method I completely eliminated the issue.

On the same platform, my sprung Revox B795 had no issues... either before treatment of the platform or after!
Overall the best solution is to just not use vinyl/tt as a source. Mostly a waste IMO altho I still have my old tt and full vinyl collection.
 
We don’t allow quitters in here…
 
Overall the best solution is to just not use vinyl/tt as a source. Mostly a waste IMO altho I still have my old tt and full vinyl collection.
I have some rarities recorded in the 1930's through to the 1950's - this stuff does not exist in digital...
Also some of the vinyl mastered in the 1970's to 1980's, the original mastering is superior to subsequent re-releases in digital.
(applies also to many recordings released in digital in the early CD period before the loudness wars took over... the early period was focused on dynamic range, very quite going to very loud... some superb recordings as a result... and then they re-issued them with everything squashed up.... )

Pretty much everything else I now listen to is all digital.
 
I have some rarities recorded in the 1930's through to the 1950's - this stuff does not exist in digital...
Also some of the vinyl mastered in the 1970's to 1980's, the original mastering is superior to subsequent re-releases in digital.
(applies also to many recordings released in digital in the early CD period before the loudness wars took over... the early period was focused on dynamic range, very quite going to very loud... some superb recordings as a result... and then they re-issued them with everything squashed up.... )Th

Pretty much everything else I now listen to is all digital.
To take advantage of really old vinyl/other material analog discs as is is one thing, having someone translate those with best tech to modern formats another is perhaps one aspect to consider? Mostly I just don't care about recordings that old myself....
 
To take advantage of really old vinyl/other material analog discs as is is one thing, having someone translate those with best tech to modern formats another is perhaps one aspect to consider? Mostly I just don't care about recordings that old myself....
I've started doing that a couple of years back ... takes a lot of time - especially for a perfectionist.... (the better getting in the way of the good)
 
Vacuum platter turntables work well too. There is an old Sota turntable review from Audio that did some of the same tests you did.
 
Quitting what, tho?

Vinyl, as you suggested.

You gotta put up with a lot of crap with it and roll up your sleeves and work to get decent sound.

It’s not a medium for quitters only the strong survive.
:p
 
Vinyl, as you suggested.

You gotta put up with a lot of crap with it and roll up your sleeves and work to get decent sound.

It’s not a medium for quitters only the strong survive.
:p

I have to agree, always have 3 or 4 tables around, a couple of extra arms and various cartridges. Not to mention some variety of platter mats, since each table has a different platter and therefore the best mat depends. Or no mat, for that matter. A lot of time and effort is required and I would be reluctant to freely serve recorded data in the way the OP seems to suggest. But I am subjective I suppose, and it would end up being moot.
 
How about this, from 1980, written by Floyd Toole and Ian Masters:
Always humbling to see that others have done a much better study of the subject nearly a half-century prior. :p
 
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