Turntable around 400€

[undeakyetonde]

One of my favorite bands released an album yesterday, the music is great but the digital version is mastered rather hot so it's less dynamic than it should have been. This has got me into the idea of buying a turntable to be able to get the vinyl version of music whenever the digital version has gotten the extreme level of "loudness treatment".

I wouldn't be so sure the vinyl version will be 'more dynamic'

I compared captures of recent Metallica releases against digital releases - no difference. Unless your favourite band's engineer explicitly says mastering was different for vinyl, chances are minimal

 

[goat76]

I wouldn't be so sure the vinyl version will be 'more dynamic'

I compared captures of recent Metallica releases against digital releases - no difference. Unless your favourite band's engineer explicitly says mastering was different for vinyl, chances are minimal

Yes, I know there's a risk the vinyl is made from the same dynamically limited master as the digital release. It is a good idea to search the internet for information before buying the vinyl.

 

[Soniclife]

One of my favorite bands released an album yesterday, the music is great but the digital version is mastered rather hot so it's less dynamic than it should have been. This has got me into the idea of buying a turntable to be able to get the vinyl version of music whenever the digital version has gotten the extreme level of "loudness treatment".

By reading this thread the Rega Planar 1 seems to be a good choice, but then the "vinyl mess" starts with most of you almost immediately talking about upgrades. So my question is which turntable I should go for if I don't want to make aftermarket upgrades?

If I just keep it to Rega for now, my local HiFi store has the following:
Rega Planar 1 €400
Rega Planar 1 Plus €500
Rega Planar 2 €600
Rega Planar 2 + Elys2 €775
Rega Planar 2 Exact €860
Rega Planar 3 €950
Rega Planar 3 50th Anniversary Edition (Rega Planar 3 Walnut Edition, Rega Neo PSU, Rega Exact MM Pickup, Rega Reference Belt EBLT) €1035

The store has everything above that, but that is about as far as I would go in price.

Do you see the 50th Anniversary Edition as a good value that will take the sound to another level from the regular Planar 1, or is the price of that now in the region of something much better from other manufacturers, perhaps with direct drive? Or is it a smarter move to go for the regular Planar 1 and buy third-party upgrades?

I already have a built-in phono stage in my Linn Akurate DSM (streamer) which is supposed to be of good quality, would that open up to other and possibly better choices of turntables for about the same price as the Rega?

As you can see, I'm a total novice when it comes to this, and sorry for the highjack.

Do you know anyone with a decent TT? If so buy the record, a nice bottle of something and get a needle drop. Then compare at home, if it works for you then you can explore the vinyl world.

 

[goat76]

Do you know anyone with a decent TT? If so buy the record, a nice bottle of something and get a needle drop. Then compare at home, if it works for you then you can explore the vinyl world.

Thank you for your suggestion but unfortunately, I don't know anyone with a turntable. None of my friends are interested in HiFi, they listen to lousy headphones, mediocre Bluetooth speakers, or directly on their phone's speakers like most other people in the world.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

From your earlier post with Rega machines available to you, it is often said by Rega fans that the Planar 3 is the sweet spot in the Rega line. The principle upgrade/add-on that buyers often go for is the external power supply (NeoPSU or whatever it's called). I think that there are many, many happy P3 owners out there and the Anniversary model looks like a good deal to me. All FWIW.

 

[DSJR]

It's now £1250, but I'd have a Planar 6/Neo as their sweet spot, as at least it can be made to play at the right speed and in an A-B, the subjective effect is of more 'expression' in the sound, due possibly to better bass reproduction - I said subjective however, as decks like this rarely if ever get properly measured objectively.

@goat76, you're an ATC fan. Why Rega and not the objectivist Technics which makes far more sense?

A Planar 1 with elliptical stylus upgrade to the Carbon (DN251E), would arguably do just fine, however.

 

[pogo]

I think with the preamp having BALANCED OUTS, makes my life easier when I'll pick my new studio monitors.

If the new monitors offer a digital input, a WAXWING Phono DSP could also be considered. The output volume can be adjusted via the app.
Btw. used direct drive turntables from Technics are a good choice. Here is my turntable incl. pickup system for less than 300€:

The measured values of my Technics are still top class today:

 

[goat76]

@goat76, you're an ATC fan. Why Rega and not the objectivist Technics which makes far more sense?

I don't know about turntables, I have not used one since I had a turntable built into one of those plastic tower stacks with two cassette players, a tuner, a CD player and a turntable on top. Before that, I used my big sister's turntable listening to her Sex Pistols and B52's records when I was about 6 years old running around in my long-john's.

So no, I don't know why I would go for the objectivist Technics turntable (is it the direct drive thing?), but I do know my local store doesn't sell Technics and I like to support them as much as possible. But they have a lot of turntables from other brands: https://taktoton.com/skivspelare?product_list_limit=36&product_list_order=price

 

[morillon]

If the new monitors offer a digital input, a WAXWING Phono DSP could also be considered. The output volume can be adjusted via the app.
Btw. used direct drive turntables from Technics are a good choice. Here is my turntable incl. pickup system for less than 300€:

View attachment 392361

The measured values of my Technics are still top class today:

You have to sort things out because you have to check the relevance of the disk used*, but as it is, I would rather mark the need to check it, oil, electronics etc because the figures are below what a "quartz" DD produces, even a modest old one etc etc
without speaking in "absolute value" it is one of the great interests of the ultra democratization of measurements in our case to help us with controls, adjustments, optimizations
;-)
* the comparison with an approach via tel and app would be, if done with precautions, can be instructive
(ps bis... multitones very powerful and free software has been offering w&f measurement for a few months , and riaa correction for even longer)

 

[JeremyFife]

One of my favorite bands released an album yesterday, the music is great but the digital version is mastered rather hot so it's less dynamic than it should have been. This has got me into the idea of buying a turntable to be able to get the vinyl version of music whenever the digital version has gotten the extreme level of "loudness treatment".

By reading this thread the Rega Planar 1 seems to be a good choice, but then the "vinyl mess" starts with most of you almost immediately talking about upgrades. So my question is which turntable I should go for if I don't want to make aftermarket upgrades?

If I just keep it to Rega for now, my local HiFi store has the following:
Rega Planar 1 €400
Rega Planar 1 Plus €500
Rega Planar 2 €600
Rega Planar 2 + Elys2 €775
Rega Planar 2 Exact €860
Rega Planar 3 €950
Rega Planar 3 50th Anniversary Edition (Rega Planar 3 Walnut Edition, Rega Neo PSU, Rega Exact MM Pickup, Rega Reference Belt EBLT) €1035

The store has everything above that, but that is about as far as I would go in price.

Do you see the 50th Anniversary Edition as a good value that will take the sound to another level from the regular Planar 1, or is the price of that now in the region of something much better from other manufacturers, perhaps with direct drive? Or is it a smarter move to go for the regular Planar 1 and buy third-party upgrades?

I already have a built-in phono stage in my Linn Akurate DSM (streamer) which is supposed to be of good quality, would that open up to other and possibly better choices of turntables for about the same price as the Rega?

As you can see, I'm a total novice when it comes to this, and sorry for the highjack.

Don't overthink, or overspend if all you need is an occasional vinyl rip (make your own well mastered digital version) or listen. Rega 1 is fine but you'll need a way to digitise it, or Audio-Technica AT-LP120XUSB has USB out. If you start enjoying vinyl then upgrade the stylus. You don't need more - unless you fall hard into the vinyl rabbit hole!

 

[JeremyFife]

Thank you for your suggestion but unfortunately, I don't know anyone with a turntable. None of my friends are interested in HiFi, they listen to lousy headphones, mediocre Bluetooth speakers, or directly on their phone's speakers like most other people in the world.

I hear you!

 

[DSJR]

Don't overthink, or overspend if all you need is an occasional vinyl rip (make your own well mastered digital version) or listen. Rega 1 is fine but you'll need a way to digitise it, or Audio-Technica AT-LP120XUSB has USB out. If you start enjoying vinyl then upgrade the stylus. You don't need more - unless you fall hard into the vinyl rabbit hole!

THIS!!! - in reply to you @goat76

I'd also look at the LP5 or LP5X as my audiophool notions like the visual simplicity and *that* video with the Spartan 5 and 95ML stylus surprised me greatly...

Direct driven platters have but ONE moving part, the main bearing. I gather the old speed/servo hunting of decades back (most 70s and 80s models using the OEM Matsushita drive nowhere near as good as the proper top models they made) was solved and the tonearms fitted, while having the detachable headshell which is never as rigid as a good all-one-piece tonearm, doesn't seem at all a subjective issue in practice these days. Just site these things properly away from speakers, use with lid removed and if ripping, use headphones and turn the speakers off!

 

[Soniclife]

Thank you for your suggestion but unfortunately, I don't know anyone with a turntable. None of my friends are interested in HiFi, they listen to lousy headphones, mediocre Bluetooth speakers, or directly on their phone's speakers like most other people in the world.

Disappointing, but not surprising I suppose. What's the band?

 

[goat76]

Don't overthink, or overspend if all you need is an occasional vinyl rip (make your own well mastered digital version) or listen. Rega 1 is fine but you'll need a way to digitise it, or Audio-Technica AT-LP120XUSB has USB out. If you start enjoying vinyl then upgrade the stylus. You don't need more - unless you fall hard into the vinyl rabbit hole!

The digitizing thing is already in place as I use Songcorder, which is a recording program made especially for use with Linn streamers that can record every type of audio from the built-in phono stage to digital sources. I use it all the time to analyze different masters and such.

The phono stage in my Linn Akurate DSM is supposedly a great one as Linn is still much into vinyl playback with their LP12, so if I buy a turntable I will most likely bypass the phono stage and use the Linn phono stage instead (which will give me the possibility of digitizing the vinyl audio stream).

I will most likely be listening to the digitized version, but you never know, maybe that white rabbit will toxicate me into a newborn vinyl fan.

 

[goat76]

Disappointing, but not surprising I suppose. What's the band?

It's not any audiophile type of music, it's one of my favorite noise rock bands The Jesus Lizard who released their first record in 26 years.

Their older records had great dynamic productions (recorded by Steve Albini) that usually landed around 16-20 dB in the crest factor, while the new record is highly limited to 7.5-9.5 dB. The problem with that is that it sounds flat and harsh when played loud in opposite to the fully dynamic older records that just sounded better and better the louder they were played. I have no idea why they did go for loudness for the new album as they are hardly the band that will compete for the top 20 charts on the radio.

I have not seen any analyses of the vinyl version so it's still a risk that the same dynamically limited master was used for the vinyl as well, but it's still a chance they made a specific master for the vinyl which could be better. At least I hope that's the case.

This is one of the tracks from the digital download of the new album, it has an integrated loudness level of just -4.2 LUFS.

 

[mike70]

Technics everytime ... A vintage 1200 in good shape ... or the brand new mk7.

If you don't like the pitch control style, the vintage 1300 or even cheaper a SL Q2 ... in brand new ones, the SL100C.

Forget about stretched pulleys, out of speed problems.and hassle to change a cartridge in a fixed headshell

 

[Timmy]

Slightly OT, and because the given price range actually restricts the respective turntables to belt-drive machines:

Do belt-drive turntables (especially those price-tagged for max. 400 €) have any speed controlling feature at all? In a way that the impact of decelerating factors like a wet-cleaning »tonearm« or the actual tonearm/cartridge itself will be compensated, in terms of correct platter speed?

OK – that seems to be a loud and clear »No« to my question ...

 

[undeakyetonde]

Do belt-drive turntables (especially those price-tagged for max. 400 €) have any speed controlling feature at all? In a way that the impact of decelerating factors like a wet-cleaning »tonearm« or the actual tonearm/cartridge itself will be compensated, in terms of correct platter speed?

There are a couple of models that feature speed control, likely coming from the same OEM (Yahorng)

Fluance RT82+
Audio-Technica LPW40 and LPW50

 

[Timmy]

There is a couple of offers that feature speed control

OK – so then that would be my do-or-die request for any belt-drive TT to be taken into consideration.

 

[somebodyelse]

Slightly OT, and because the given price range actually restricts the respective turntables to belt-drive machines:

Do belt-drive turntables (especially those price-tagged for max. 400 €) have any speed controlling feature at all? In a way that the impact of decelerating factors like a wet-cleaning »tonearm« or the actual tonearm/cartridge itself will be compensated, in terms of correct platter speed?

Most use AC synchronous motors, so speed is locked to drive frequency. For cheap ones this comes from the mains frequency which is itself closely controlled. They need to change the gearing for 33 & 45 rpm, usually by moving the belt to a different pulley. More expensive ones synthesize the drive frequencies for the different speeds.