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Turntable around 400€
- Thread starter aldo24
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Multicore
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Then there's no excuse. Get one, use it for a few days, experience the excellent ergonomics, solid feel and if you don't bond with it then pack it up and wrap the carton in gift paper, tie it with a pretty bow and give it to someone. Or return it. Don't back cue with the stock needle.
DSJR
Major Contributor
I think the update was when the P1 became the 'Planar 1' but I could be mistaken. All I can say is the finish improved periodically over the years and yes, I do have to bow deeply and apologetically to @restorer-john here on the tonearm quality of the older arm fitted to the P1, as the bearings could vary on this model, which I never sold (I never ever had issues with the RB250, 300 tonearms apart from one or two OEM 250s with play that went to NAD, Goldring and so on, fixed sharpish in subsequent batches I remember.
The motor seems to be used all through, so why stick to the old 110V motor when it's better surely to use the same 24VAC motor all through. The metal pulley may be sweated on rather than glued, so I'd say that's a good visual upgrade if nothing else.
The older P1s had a different and less substantial main bearing to the models up the range, so not sure if the float-glass platter is usable due to extra mass*? A Planar 2 here isn't hugely more expensive and you get a better arm as well as the glass and so on. Having said that, the phenolic (bakelite) platter should be great and the iffy wool mat could easily be upgraded or changed for cork or the very thin type in upper models (I loved Collaro autochangers in my infancy, and the trade name and mat colour of my Dads 'Conquest changer' live on as a thin woven almost cloth type mat
if you really want to customise the thing) - but a stylus upgrade from the Carbon's original ATN 91 is really all you'd need to the Thakker DN251E I linked to above and that's a ten second job with no arm tweaking needed in reality.
Also this -
DN-251 S/E Stylus for Dual DMS 251 | DaCapo Audio
Get Your DN-251 S/E Stylus for Dual DMS 251 from Denmark's International Turntable Specialist. Browse Our Full Range of Top-Quality Replacement Needles that will Renew the Performance of Your Phono Cartridge
www.dacapoaudio.com
If you wish to fine tune the playing weight from the 2g preset, get a little Ortofon plastic stylus balance and tweak the counterweight back a smidge to achieve 1.75g. Easier to do than describe.
To those looking on with raised eyebrows and an incredulous vibe reading the above, this is VINYL and enthusiasts do like to tune, tweak and customise their vinyl-spinners to suit. I'm just trying to help the OP get a better tone from his Planar 1 should he go that route.
*Rega used float glass fifty years ago because a dedicated finished aluminium casting would cost more in the volumes Rega manufactured in back then. the glass worked for them and that's been it. The '6' model adds most of an extra layer for more mass and a neater look and the 10 is the latest one with an expensive ceramic confection. The 10 and Apheta 3 sounds more like 'digital' than 'digital' does I find...
Multicore
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And I think you did an excellent job. If you like fussy gear and fussing around with gear then these low-mass Brit-style TTs are the way to go
:P If otoh you want to unpack, set up and rock the party then ... I said my bit already.
ban25
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Yep, that is the best option. Take a look at this speed stability comparison I did between my Technics SL-1200MK7 and my Pro-Ject table (MSRP about 2x your target):
Unbiased Perspective Please - AT-LP5X + AT-VM95EN + AT-PEQ30 to Sonos Fives w/ Sub
Also consider that the VM95 body is the same for all of them with the exception with where they're made - China for the C, and Japan for the others. To that end could just swap styli between bodies. This is very interesting. I’d not realized the “C” designation meant China. I’d only picked up...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Never fall for belt-drive BS.
- Thread Starter
- #47
Man thank you so much... so many helpfull details, I think my options are down to 2 right now, either direct drive AT-LP120X or Rega Planar 1...I think the update was when the P1 became the 'Planar 1' but I could be mistaken. All I can say is the finish improved periodically over the years and yes, I do have to bow deeply and apologetically to @restorer-john here on the tonearm quality of the older arm fitted to the P1, as the bearings could vary on this model, which I never sold (I never ever had issues with the RB250, 300 tonearms apart from one or two OEM 250s with play that went to NAD, Goldring and so on, fixed sharpish in subsequent batches I remember.
The motor seems to be used all through, so why stick to the old 110V motor when it's better surely to use the same 24VAC motor all through. The metal pulley may be sweated on rather than glued, so I'd say that's a good visual upgrade if nothing else.
The older P1s had a different and less substantial main bearing to the models up the range, so not sure if the float-glass platter is usable due to extra mass*? A Planar 2 here isn't hugely more expensive and you get a better arm as well as the glass and so on. Having said that, the phenolic (bakelite) platter should be great and the iffy wool mat could easily be upgraded or changed for cork or the very thin type in upper models (I loved Collaro autochangers in my infancy, and the trade name and mat colour of my Dads 'Conquest changer' live on as a thin woven almost cloth type mat
Also this -
DN-251 S/E Stylus for Dual DMS 251 | DaCapo Audio
Get Your DN-251 S/E Stylus for Dual DMS 251 from Denmark's International Turntable Specialist. Browse Our Full Range of Top-Quality Replacement Needles that will Renew the Performance of Your Phono Cartridge
If you wish to fine tune the playing weight from the 2g preset, get a little Ortofon plastic stylus balance and tweak the counterweight back a smidge to achieve 1.75g. Easier to do than describe.
To those looking on with raised eyebrows and an incredulous vibe reading the above, this is VINYL and enthusiasts do like to tune, tweak and customise their vinyl-spinners to suit. I'm just trying to help the OP get a better tone from his Planar 1 should he go that route.
*Rega used float glass fifty years ago because a dedicated finished aluminium casting would cost more in the volumes Rega manufactured in back then. the glass worked for them and that's been it. The '6' model adds most of an extra layer for more mass and a neater look and the 10 is the latest one with an expensive ceramic confection. The 10 and Apheta 3 sounds more like 'digital' than 'digital' does I find...
- Thread Starter
- #48
I've read a lot about direct drives in this price range, and I came up with this new comparison between Audio Technica LP5X vs LP120X... they both have usb to digitize my records, but the looks are more apealing to me in the LP5X... I think they use the same stylus? although if im measing any technical detail making the LP120X BETTER, i'll reconsider
DSJR
Major Contributor
Where do you live? That'll help as Rega prices are loony-high if you go too far from the UK.
I mean, if you want to go really low on price, I'd love to try one of these with say, an OM5e or OM10 stylus in it - so £300 all in. No phono stage or USB built in though, but add a Spartan 5 and you'd be laughing - maybe
Pro-Ject Primary E (Black)
Shop for Project Primary E Black Turntable with Richer Sounds for a 6 Year Guarantee, expert advice and Lowest Prices Guaranteed
www.richersounds.com
To answer the recommendations of the AT 120 model, devils advocate has to ask that if this is so good and so cheap, why does the Technics need to cost multiples of the price and if so, would the average punter hear the difference straight off? I can accept the Techie being around a grand, the latest motor they use seems derived from the Pabst design my Dual 701 has and have heard on that Youtube vid how good the LP5X can appear to be with ML stylus and external phono stage for £700, but the AT120 for three hundred UK notes? Summat's got to give surely?
AT-LP120XUSB
In addition to its convenient USB output, this direct-drive turntable also features a detachable dual RCA output cable and built-in selectable phono preamp so you can connect directly to your home ...
www.audio-technica.com
By the way, the AT lid is exactly the same size as the old Lenco/Linn lid, doesn't cost much and when a pal ordered one for his old Goldring Lenco GL75 plinth, it arrived very quickly, superbly packed and he thought the service from AT's UK centre excellent
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- Thread Starter
- #50
I live in greece, Primary E goes for 290€ here... but reviews here say its pretty light and not stable with its 3 feet.Where do you live? That'll help as Rega prices are loony-high if you go too far from the UK.
I mean, if you want to go really low on price, I'd love to try one of these with say, an OM5e or OM10 stylus in it - so £300 all in. No phono stage or USB built in though, but add a Spartan 5 and you'd be laughing - maybe
Pro-Ject Primary E (Black)
Shop for Project Primary E Black Turntable with Richer Sounds for a 6 Year Guarantee, expert advice and Lowest Prices Guaranteed
To answer the recommendations of the AT 120 model, devils advocate has to ask that if this is so good and so cheap, why does the Technics need to cost multiples of the price and if so, would the average punter hear the difference straight off? I can accept the Techie being around a grand, the latest motor they use seems derived from the Pabst design my Dual 701 has and have heard on that Youtube vid how good the LP5X can appear to be with ML stylus and external phono stage for £700, but the AT120 for three hundred UK notes? Summat's got to give surely?
AT-LP120XUSB
In addition to its convenient USB output, this direct-drive turntable also features a detachable dual RCA output cable and built-in selectable phono preamp so you can connect directly to your home ...
By the way, the AT lid is exactly the same size as the old Lenco/Linn lid, doesn't cost much and when a pal ordered one for his old Goldring Lenco GL75 plinth, it arrived very quickly, superbly packed and he thought the service from AT's UK centre excellent
JeremyFife
Major Contributor
why would you want to 'play around' with cables? Plug in and play, don't worry about things that don't matter
- Thread Starter
- #53
I need to know though
, yeah, they're NOT detachable...
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JeremyFife
Major Contributor
Full disclosure ...
Pre-ASR I would have done exactly the same, and I 'knew' that the source mattered more than the speakers, and I 'knew' that source = vinyl if I was serious about sound. I've learned a *lot* here
Mostly it was just a reminder that science is objective, hifi is electronics (and some mechanics), digital is data, music is sound waves and that we are human. No magic or mystery required.
Music, of course, has ALL the magic and mystery - that's why we listen
Get good speakers, find electronics with the features you need, don't spend extra on copper wire and see what's left in your budget for a turntable after that.
(and it's *your* system - so if you want a turntable then have one)
Pre-ASR I would have done exactly the same, and I 'knew' that the source mattered more than the speakers, and I 'knew' that source = vinyl if I was serious about sound. I've learned a *lot* here
Mostly it was just a reminder that science is objective, hifi is electronics (and some mechanics), digital is data, music is sound waves and that we are human. No magic or mystery required.
Music, of course, has ALL the magic and mystery - that's why we listen
Get good speakers, find electronics with the features you need, don't spend extra on copper wire and see what's left in your budget for a turntable after that.
(and it's *your* system - so if you want a turntable then have one)
Timmy
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- Aug 3, 2024
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Slightly OT, and because the given price range actually restricts the respective turntables to belt-drive machines:
Do belt-drive turntables (especially those price-tagged for max. 400 €) have any speed controlling feature at all? In a way that the impact of decelerating factors like a wet-cleaning »tonearm« or the actual tonearm/cartridge itself will be compensated, in terms of correct platter speed?
Do belt-drive turntables (especially those price-tagged for max. 400 €) have any speed controlling feature at all? In a way that the impact of decelerating factors like a wet-cleaning »tonearm« or the actual tonearm/cartridge itself will be compensated, in terms of correct platter speed?
DSJR
Major Contributor
Same as Rega - take lid off when using it, site it carefully, upgrade the supplied basic conical tip stylus and it may be fine
- Thread Starter
- #57
"may" be fine ahhahahahahaaSame as Rega - take lid off when using it, site it carefully, upgrade the supplied basic conical tip stylus and it may be fine
WDeranged
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To be fair the stock cart sounds good. I recommended an AT3600 to anyone looking for a cheap and effective starter. But you can get so much better, even with the humble Planar 1. I've settled on a VM95ML as my sweetspot.
Otherwise I wasn't quite satisfied with the stock belt. I could hear a bit of weirdness in pianos so I got a Reference EBLT. There was a significant measurable improvement in stability. Next I got an ebay bargain glass platter from a Planar 2. The Planar 1 bearing and sub platter is the same so it fits perfectly and yielded better measurements but I'm not sure if I can hear it.
The Planar 1 (current version) is a shockingly good turntable if you're willing to spend the time and money on a few upgrades. Attached to a decent preamp (Spartan 15!) it absolutely rocks, low distortion and a smooth yet detailed sound. I've compared it with needledrops from far more beastly systems and it compares very well.
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For those in Europe for whom the price of Rega is still low, the P1 and P2 are incredible deals from an excellent company. If I'm talking to an audio hobbyist and they dismiss Rega out of hand, I know they don't know what they're talking about. In the US, Rega has jumped the shark on pricing and I find them non-competitive anymore, although I own a Planar 6 which I enjoy.
One of my favorite bands released an album yesterday, the music is great but the digital version is mastered rather hot so it's less dynamic than it should have been. This has got me into the idea of buying a turntable to be able to get the vinyl version of music whenever the digital version has gotten the extreme level of "loudness treatment".
By reading this thread the Rega Planar 1 seems to be a good choice, but then the "vinyl mess" starts with most of you almost immediately talking about upgrades. So my question is which turntable I should go for if I don't want to make aftermarket upgrades?
If I just keep it to Rega for now, my local HiFi store has the following:
Rega Planar 1 €400
Rega Planar 1 Plus €500
Rega Planar 2 €600
Rega Planar 2 + Elys2 €775
Rega Planar 2 Exact €860
Rega Planar 3 €950
Rega Planar 3 50th Anniversary Edition (Rega Planar 3 Walnut Edition, Rega Neo PSU, Rega Exact MM Pickup, Rega Reference Belt EBLT) €1035
The store has everything above that, but that is about as far as I would go in price.
Do you see the 50th Anniversary Edition as a good value that will take the sound to another level from the regular Planar 1, or is the price of that now in the region of something much better from other manufacturers, perhaps with direct drive? Or is it a smarter move to go for the regular Planar 1 and buy third-party upgrades?
I already have a built-in phono stage in my Linn Akurate DSM (streamer) which is supposed to be of good quality, would that open up to other and possibly better choices of turntables for about the same price as the Rega?
As you can see, I'm a total novice when it comes to this, and sorry for the highjack.
By reading this thread the Rega Planar 1 seems to be a good choice, but then the "vinyl mess" starts with most of you almost immediately talking about upgrades. So my question is which turntable I should go for if I don't want to make aftermarket upgrades?
If I just keep it to Rega for now, my local HiFi store has the following:
Rega Planar 1 €400
Rega Planar 1 Plus €500
Rega Planar 2 €600
Rega Planar 2 + Elys2 €775
Rega Planar 2 Exact €860
Rega Planar 3 €950
Rega Planar 3 50th Anniversary Edition (Rega Planar 3 Walnut Edition, Rega Neo PSU, Rega Exact MM Pickup, Rega Reference Belt EBLT) €1035
The store has everything above that, but that is about as far as I would go in price.
Do you see the 50th Anniversary Edition as a good value that will take the sound to another level from the regular Planar 1, or is the price of that now in the region of something much better from other manufacturers, perhaps with direct drive? Or is it a smarter move to go for the regular Planar 1 and buy third-party upgrades?
I already have a built-in phono stage in my Linn Akurate DSM (streamer) which is supposed to be of good quality, would that open up to other and possibly better choices of turntables for about the same price as the Rega?
As you can see, I'm a total novice when it comes to this, and sorry for the highjack.
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