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Turntable advice requested, please!

aedagnino

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I've been through the turntable and cartridge rabbit hole and back... I still own over a 1000 records (trying to sell most of them slowly at the right prices) and very occasionally use my vintage Sony turntable (a very nice PSX50) to play them, but this website has ruined (rightly so) the use of it as my main source. Once I saw or rather heard it's inherent limitations there was no way of going back. Of course I still enjoy using the turntable once in a while and I'll probably keep a few hundred LPs, but no more spending big bucks on equipment in the vinyl rig. I've settled with the Sony and for cartridge I use a couple rather budget vintage MMs with the Black Diamond line of stylii which I've found are a steal for the money. For less than $50 you get a really good stylus that, used sparingly as in my case, will last me a decade.
 

Bob from Florida

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Not sure if your budget can accommodate, but the Marantz TT-15 will fill your needs.


Music direct has a refurbished one at $1350 and new ones for $1799. This table is a package done by Clearaudio for Marantz. The table is their Emotion model, the arm is a Satisfy, and the cartridge is a Virtuoso MM. The motor is AC synchro with a double pulley to change speeds. I don't know what the table lists for, but the arm lists for $2000 and the cartridge $1100. As a pre setup package, it really is all anyone would ever need. The simplicity translates to lifetime reliability. Belts and cartridges are your maintenance items. Music Direct has a 60 day trial, so you have protection from dissatisfaction.
 

mike70

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the vm95en IS the budget cartridge today.
Spectacular performance for the price.

To enjoy the best from vinyl, a better turntable is needed, yes. But that goes on priorities, goals of everyone.

Contrary to many people says in this forum, I find vinyl as a source of real great sound and a great experience with music. I don't find CDs better sounding per sé (only on theory).

For me the key is mastering/recording... not the format. The theoretical superiority exists, but is totally diluted in the speaker THD, room noise floor / acoustics ... and bad recordings with huge dynamic compression.

My opinion, in a real world experience, vinyl doesn't sound worse than CDs in a decent system.
 

spiral scratch

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I think your turntable is fine for someone who wants to play around with some records. It should provide decent sound. You just picked up a new belt, cartridge and sorted the speed so it's there ready for you to enjoy. I think the AT VM95E is a great suggestion for a something that will give you a pretty good sound for what is there. I also agree that diminishing returns are likely to be had with upgrading your cartridge to a point. As has been mentioned you may run into problems and frustration with a more refined cartridge on a player that lacks the quality to support it. I also think with so many variables it's a bit hard to quantify these things without actually trying them yourself or speaking with someone who has. DSJR felt the 2M Blue might be too refined which should give you an idea of where the top end might be. The arm on that turntable looks to be OK, so it might work, but sticking with a lower budget might be a safer bet especially if you're just dipping your toe into this. Some people love records, some people think they're overrated and a hassle. If you love records and if you want to get into better cartridges then a better turntable would likely be in order. You could always sell your turntable and use the money for a better one. It'll work fine to enjoy spinning records now and then.

I would agree a better deck with a mediocre cartridge is preferable to a budget deck with a better cartridge, but it's a bit hard to quantify. I also think there's budget decks that have good build quality and can perform really well. With something that is really mechanical there is definitely synergy with arms and cartridges and how the deck performs. As we're learning here, spending lots doesn't guarantee quality or satisfaction.
 
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Strumbringer

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the vm95en IS the budget cartridge today.
Spectacular performance for the price.

To enjoy the best from vinyl, a better turntable is needed, yes. But that goes on priorities, goals of everyone.

Contrary to many people says in this forum, I find vinyl as a source of real great sound and a great experience with music. I don't find CDs better sounding per sé (only on theory).

For me the key is mastering/recording... not the format. The theoretical superiority exists, but is totally diluted in the speaker THD, room noise floor / acoustics ... and bad recordings with huge dynamic compression.

My opinion, in a real world experience, vinyl doesn't sound worse than CDs in a decent system.
I think your turntable is fine for someone who wants to play around with some records. It should provide decent sound. You just picked up a new belt, cartridge and sorted the speed so it's there ready for you to enjoy. I think the AT VM95E is a great suggestion for a something that will give you a pretty good sound for what is there. I also agree that diminishing returns are likely to be had with upgrading your cartridge to a point. As has been mentioned you may run into problems and frustration with a more refined cartridge on a player that lacks the quality to support it. I also think with so many variables it's a bit hard to quantify these things without actually trying them yourself or speaking with someone who has. DSJR felt the 2M Blue might be too refined which should give you an idea of where the top end might be. The arm on that turntable looks to be OK, so it might work, but sticking with a lower budget might be a safer bet especially if you're just dipping your toe into this. Some people love records, some people think they're overrated and a hassle. If you love records and if you want to get into better cartridges then a better turntable would likely be in order. You could always sell your turntable and use the money for a better one. It'll work fine to enjoy spinning records now and then.

I would agree a better deck with a mediocre cartridge is preferable to a budget deck with a better cartridge, but it's a bit hard to quantify. I also think there's budget decks that have good build quality and can perform really well. With something that is really mechanical there is definitely synergy with arms and cartridges and how the deck performs. As we're learning here, spending lots doesn't guarantee quality or satisfaction.
Sincere thanks- This is solid advice. I think as a music lover, I primarily listen to lossless audio files, through a great DAC (RME ADI-2), and a great headphone amp (Linear Tube Audio MZ3). Since my tube headphone amp has three inputs, I decided to hook up my Sanyo turntable and re-discover my small collection of vinyl (about 200 LPs). Despite obvious artifacts associated with vinyl, I find it really enjoyable and of course, nostalgic.

The current TT is indeed sorted out and I'm thrilled that I'm getting a perfect 33.3 RPM with a new belt and some fine tuning calibration, per the 1980 service manual. Perhaps there could be a slight/marginal bump in quality with the ATVM95E cartridge & head shell combo, but I will absolutely heed the great advice from all here and note that there is a "ceiling" for what can be done and further purchases to upgrade are not going to provide tonal benefit.

Perhaps I should ask what is recommended for a replacement TT, so I can research and save accordingly. I remember researching the U-Turn Orbit Special, Music Hall Classic, and Fluance RT85, but read that even these are not great because of (reportedly) cheap build quality and unacceptable W/F readings. I guess I need to look at a higher price point?
 
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Strumbringer

Strumbringer

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Not sure if your budget can accommodate, but the Marantz TT-15 will fill your needs.


Music direct has a refurbished one at $1350 and new ones for $1799. This table is a package done by Clearaudio for Marantz. The table is their Emotion model, the arm is a Satisfy, and the cartridge is a Virtuoso MM. The motor is AC synchro with a double pulley to change speeds. I don't know what the table lists for, but the arm lists for $2000 and the cartridge $1100. As a pre setup package, it really is all anyone would ever need. The simplicity translates to lifetime reliability. Belts and cartridges are your maintenance items. Music Direct has a 60 day trial, so you have protection from dissatisfaction.
This looks great- Thanks for the recommendation and I'll research it!
 

digitalfrost

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This looks great- Thanks for the recommendation and I'll research it!
This was also high on my list when researching turntable options. What made me not get were the following downsides:

33/45 can only be changed by manually swapping the belt to a different pulley, also there is no speed control box included
Clearaudio will by default setup their arms to have an inner groove radius of 75mm see page 4 here: https://www.hifi-regler.de/fm/produ...dio-einstellschablone-bedienungsanleitung.pdf

This means any regular records that are used to the fullest will have heavy inner groove distortion unless you set a different alignment yourself. I set my turntable to german DIN inner groove radius of 57.5mm as opposed to the IEC standard of 60.325mm.

In the end I bought a turntable from Acoustic Solid. Mine has a Rega arm but it offers VTA adjustment through the base it's mounted to. It also has a speed box so you can fine adjust the speed and switch 33/45 at the push of a button.
 

mike70

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I think the sweet spot in turntables is in the 1-1.5k ... and personally I love the Technics direct drive turntables, you have the 1500C or the 100C in that price range.
Other options in belt drive, can be Rega P3 as an example.

The improvement with more expensive stuff is marginal ... compared with the cheaper ones, is worth it. My opinion.
 

Bob from Florida

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This was also high on my list when researching turntable options. What made me not get were the following downsides:

33/45 can only be changed by manually swapping the belt to a different pulley, also there is no speed control box included
Clearaudio will by default setup their arms to have an inner groove radius of 75mm see page 4 here: https://www.hifi-regler.de/fm/produ...dio-einstellschablone-bedienungsanleitung.pdf

This means any regular records that are used to the fullest will have heavy inner groove distortion unless you set a different alignment yourself. I set my turntable to german DIN inner groove radius of 57.5mm as opposed to the IEC standard of 60.325mm.

In the end I bought a turntable from Acoustic Solid. Mine has a Rega arm but it offers VTA adjustment through the base it's mounted to. It also has a speed box so you can fine adjust the speed and switch 33/45 at the push of a button.
I actually have that alignment tool - highly recommended. I use the IEC standard and the overhang and zenith adjustments are super easy on that arm.
 

egellings

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One thing that is important with a TT is the arm-cartridge alignment. Sound will be subpar if alignment is poor, even with an excellent arm & cart. Use an alignment protractor, such as Cart-Align (TM) to get that right. The Baerwald alignment technique is a good all-rounder for this.
 

spiral scratch

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I download my protractors from here:

https://www.conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm (third line down).

Just enter the fields and they print out nice on a piece of photo paper. I tape it onto and old LP and it's good to go. No need to spend a bunch of money on this part. If you bother to read his preamble you'll see what I mean.
 

Bob from Florida

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I download my protractors from here:

https://www.conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm (third line down).

Just enter the fields and they print out nice on a piece of photo paper. I tape it onto and old LP and it's good to go. No need to spend a bunch of money on this part. If you bother to read his preamble you'll see what I mean.
Yes, you can print out a protractor and it will work. I have one I did years ago and it works. The problem with this type of protractor is getting the reference pointer exactly at the correct platter rotation so it points at the center of the tonearm pivot. The 2 point protractors get around this issue by having you go back and forth - rotate platter between 1st & 2nd points while tweaking the overhang and zenith. This works if the protractor matches the arm pivot to spindle length and arm length. The 2 point technique can be a pain in the ass. After spending too much time getting the overhang and zenith correct you won't be wanting to change cartridges anytime soon!

The Clearaudio tool, referenced earlier, and the Feickart tool have a plumb bob that pinpoints the tonearm pivot. This allows for greater precision of protractor alignment points and checking for correct spindle to tonearm pivot distances. The Clearaudio gauge allows for single point alignment, 4 geometry choices - 2 on top and 2 on the bottom ( you pull 2 screws and flip the base plate and reassemble ). This allows for overhang and zenith alignment at the same time. Very quick < 5 minutes and you are done. The Feickart tool had 3 alignment choices with all three points on 3 locations you check. First location has 3 dots - 1 for each geometry overhang - set overhang of choice here. Next is adjust zenith at outer null location. Finally, check for correct overhang and zenith at inner null point - if the first and second were done correctly the third will be correct - if not, start again.


Clearaudio arms, and certain other OEM arms, have a dip at the tonearm pivot that allows the plumb bob pin to drop into and lock the protractor position. The Marantz TT-15 table is drilled for a 9 inch arm with a 222 mm pivot to spindle distance. This is the same table as the Clearaudio Emotion table. As you move up the Clearaudio turntable line Concept, Performance DC, Ovation - that drilled hole becomes a "concentric" that has a hole in it to accept the tonearm. You rotate the concentric to set the pivot spindle distance - within limits - to the arm in question then lock in in place. The Clearaudio stuff is not cheap - you can make the case for being overpriced. However, you do get a nice product that can last a lifetime.
 

spiral scratch

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Generally takes me about 5 minutes to set up overhang. You can eyeball the pointer to pivot which gets you in the ball park, the arc is for fine tuning. I use the front of the headshell to check the arc is good, then check with stylus.

If you want to spend $200 on a Fiekert that's OK, but a $10 protractor and a $10 engineering square will do the same thing. And at the end not really necessary but will save you some time and empty your wallet.

I install cartridges as needed which is about once every other a year.
 

Bob from Florida

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Generally takes me about 5 minutes to set up overhang. You can eyeball the pointer to pivot which gets you in the ball park, the arc is for fine tuning. I use the front of the headshell to check the arc is good, then check with stylus.

If you want to spend $200 on a Fiekert that's OK, but a $10 protractor and a $10 engineering square will do the same thing. And at the end not really necessary but will save you some time and empty your wallet.

I install cartridges as needed which is about once every other a year.
I had some reward points to use, otherwise unlikely to have spent $250 on the Clearaudio gauge. After using it, the value became obvious. I did quite a few alignments for myself and others - real time saver.
We all make appropriate choices based on our needs and budget. All good.
 

mike70

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Remarkably similar visually. One wonders if they are possibly manufactured in the same location.

If someone have the Feickert, is good to check it out. The price is excellent ... or maybe ... more accurate to what it is.

Is a protractor, not a heart pacemaker :)
 

levimax

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Another advantage to Techniques TT's, vintage or new, is that their "S" arms only need an overhang adjustment which can be done easily in a couple of minuets with a $6.00 jig. In addition you can get extra head shells and swap carts out in seconds. While straight arms supposedly have some advantages I will never use them again... set up is just too hard and it is easy to damage a stylus during set up even if you are careful. The "S" arm has proven the test of time as Technics still uses them even on their new high end TT's.
 

egellings

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I download my protractors from here:

https://www.conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm (third line down).

Just enter the fields and they print out nice on a piece of photo paper. I tape it onto and old LP and it's good to go. No need to spend a bunch of money on this part. If you bother to read his preamble you'll see what I mean.
Agreed. I downloaded one as well. It's important that the printer accurately prints it out. I have the Cart-Align as well, and when I checked the paper vs. Cart-Align's results, they were very close to identical. There's certainly no need to buy a hardware device.
 

Bob from Florida

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If someone have the Feickert, is good to check it out. The price is excellent ... or maybe ... more accurate to what it is.

Is a protractor, not a heart pacemaker :)
So I checked prices of pacemakers. 2018 article.

Just cost of the actual pacemaker - not implantation - $4200 in U.S. versus $1400 in Gemany. Even in Germany, protractor still cheaper!:D:D:D
 
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