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Turn off or not to turn off?

johnah5

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I searched and read a thread somewhat concerning turning off gear or not and debating tempature norms for best working ability of different equipment. I didn't see a clear answer whether or not it is best for longevity to turn off a DAC, Pre-amp, Amp, Streamer? Does anyone leave one or all of these components on all the time?

Yes they come with on/off switches but my amp switch is in a hard to reach place getting me to consider not ever turning if off unless away for a long period of time. The Pre and Dac have easy front placed on/off's. The Lumin streamer is like the amp with hard to reach switch.

Thank you in advance.
JH
 

restorer-john

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Turn off gear when you are not using it. Simple.

Test instruments need a period of time to stabilise, some tube gear needs several minutes to reach operating temperature and stabilised bias, but most solid state consumer electronics will be functioning perfectly after a few seconds.

Save your gear, save energy, save money and save the planet- turn off your unused HiFi. :)
 
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Doodski

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Heat eventually kills electronics stuff. Turn it OFF or purchase gear with auto OFF. My DAC turns off after 5 minutes of inactivity. The amp stays ON because I use it nearly all day and it's behind my monitor. To give you a extreme situation imagine we take 1000 PICs (ICs), connect them to power and output data from the PICs as we bake them in a 175C oven till about 15% of them remain working and that requires ~overnight or less. So if we can destroy 85% of the ICs in some minutes to overnight at 175C then after years of enduring 85C it will surely have some sort of effect on electronics.
 

Scrappy

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I’ve left my whole hifi rig on from November til March when I lived at a buddy’s place, and his folks said “add electric heaters.” Worked fine to add heat, even from small midfields and a fin-cooled amp for lows. I turned the TV off ha. Now last spring, when it got warmer, shut it all off, and the China’s finest HDMI audio extractor failed. RIP surround sound. Fostex speakers, Yamaha mixer for summing were all fine. I deal with very hot-running amps at work. Figure a device is designed to run at a certain high temp, but what for fluctuations?
 

Doodski

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Figure a device is designed to run at a certain high temp, but what for fluctuations?
Peak temps are specified some times but like a IRFZ44 FET is rated for 175C operating temp peak is not given. One would need to sacrifice some in order to figure out where they are at. High temp fluctuations can be managed better with proper thermal compound use, proper clamp pressure, calibrate bias and idle and use a fan if extreme.
 
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johnah5

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I’ve left my whole hifi rig on from November til March when I lived at a buddy’s place, and his folks said “add electric heaters.” Worked fine to add heat, even from small midfields and a fin-cooled amp for lows. I turned the TV off ha. Now last spring, when it got warmer, shut it all off, and the China’s finest HDMI audio extractor failed. RIP surround sound. Fostex speakers, Yamaha mixer for summing were all fine. I deal with very hot-running amps at work. Figure a device is designed to run at a certain high temp, but what for fluctuations?
Thank you, that was clear and helpful! Best JH
 

Blumlein 88

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A rule of thumb for electrolytic capacitors is every 10 degree C increase in temperature halves the lifespan of them( Arrhenious' Law). This actually applies to other devices too. However some of those have a lifespan in the hundreds of years range. So lowering the lifespan of a solid state device from 800 years to 400 years won't matter if the power supply caps won't make it past 20 years. The power supply caps essentially are the bottleneck to the life of electronics. And power amps will usually run at the highest temperatures.

From military research into reliability some types of devices suffer greatly accelerated reduction in lifespan due to going from cold to warmed up conditions. Like 800% accelerated aging. So you probably don't want to turn things on and off a dozen times a day. Another over-looked aspect is as components age, it takes a lower and lower value of voltage spiking to damage the device. That is why you hear of things left on for years, and then when it was turned off something fails the next time it is turned on.

So I don't get bent out of shape turning my gear on and off all the time. In fact I leave everything on other than the power amp. It may not give me maximum lifespan, but I also haven't suffered large amounts of gear failure this way. I know of people with power amps that are not turned off and are 12 to 15 years old and work fine. I once left mine on, and used a couple of those for 10 years and they weren't new when I purchased them.

I would suggest at least turning your power amp on and off. You can get an outlet extension with an on/off switch to make it more convenient.
 

Blumlein 88

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Vampire power draw and unused but intentionally powered devices I imagine amount to a huge amount of wasted power globally.
Yes, but is that really how to look at it? What is huge?

For instance there are 142 million homes in the USA. If each one is wasting 1 watt ( and surely most are doing more than that), we are talking 142 megawatts. Huge amount in some sense. Out of the 143 trillion kw/hrs residences consume annually, even 100 times that much isn't 1%. Changing your thermostat .5 degree would be an overwhelmingly larger difference. I get it and everything matters, but that is pretty far down the list of important issues.
 

Doodski

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Yes, but is that really how to look at it? What is huge?

For instance there are 142 million homes in the USA. If each one is wasting 1 watt ( and surely most are doing more than that), we are talking 142 megawatts. Huge amount in some sense. Out of the 143 trillion kw/hrs residences consume annually, even 100 times that much isn't 1%. Changing your thermostat .5 degree would be an overwhelmingly larger difference. I get it and everything matters, but that is pretty far down the list of important issues.
Economizing saves on developing new infrastructure by stretching the life expectancy of the present infrastructure.
 

JSmith

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I get it and everything matters, but that is pretty far down the list of important issues.
One could say there is nothing wrong with consuming energy (as long as one is willing to pay the bill), rather the issue generally is the way the power is generated (i.e. fossil fuels).


JSmith
 

pablolie

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...

I turn off gear when I am gone for a while. Other than that, everything is on all the time. My amp is Class D and efficient at rest and the rest of stuff doesn't consume as much. I also turn off my main workstation - even though I built it to be very power efficient (I7 processor T class at 35W max) when I am gone - but I am careful about how I turn stuff off. Just flipping a switch is murder to many components that need to be shut down cleanly when needed.

I think turning stuff on and off all the time is much worse for long term reliability - it's proven in large IT infrastructures over and over again. The priority is to design with sustainability in mind, then just let it run. I am just power consumption conscious in general when I allow stuff into my personal grid.
 

pablolie

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Vampire power draw and unused but intentionally powered devices I imagine amount to a huge amount of wasted power globally.
Most devices these days have power saving algorithms built in - check the specs to see how effective they are. I don't buy stuff that isn't designed with power management in mind.
 

Blumlein 88

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Economizing saves on developing new infrastructure by stretching the life expectancy of the present infrastructure.
When you drive over familiar routes, do you learn when to start coasting so you can come to your next stop in a way you almost never use much of your brakes? That would both help with the life of your car and reduce energy use and related infrastructure far, far more than vampire electricity usage. Such a driving routine can be learned rather easily to make it a habit, and can be done in a way that doesn't interfere with other traffic on the road. I know one doesn't preclude or require the other, but I think worrying amount small vampire draw is misplaced worry to not enough benefit for the consumer.

Equipment has improved due to better design and more stuff has automatic standby modes. That is where to place such an emphasis. Everyone has a limited mental budget and vampire electricity draw is a poor investment of that budget on a daily basis. Doing what pablolie is saying makes more sense. Buy carefully and then don't worry about it.
 

Doodski

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When you drive over familiar routes, do you learn when to start coasting so you can come to your next stop in a way you almost never use much of your brakes? That would both help with the life of your car and reduce energy use and related infrastructure far, far more than vampire electricity usage. Such a driving routine can be learned rather easily to make it a habit, and can be done in a way that doesn't interfere with other traffic on the road. I know one doesn't preclude or require the other, but I think worrying amount small vampire draw is misplaced worry to not enough benefit for the consumer.

Equipment has improved due to better design and more stuff has automatic standby modes. That is where to place such an emphasis. Everyone has a limited mental budget and vampire electricity draw is a poor investment of that budget on a daily basis. Doing what pablolie is saying makes more sense. Buy carefully and then don't worry about it.
So after conversion to nat gas for electricity generation there's limited gains to be had for economy? We've economized economically and other areas are more low hanging fruit now.
 

JSmith

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I think turning stuff on and off all the time is much worse for long term reliability
For sure, so there needs to be a balance. For example I get home and turn on my TV and it stays on all night whether I am watching it or not. Whereas some people watch it for 30 mins, turn it off, on again, off again... TV won't last as long for sure. However leaving it on 24/7 would also mean premature failure. I always think if there is a standby function too, use it.


JSmith
 

pablolie

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For sure, so there needs to be a balance. For example I get home and turn on my TV and it stays on all night whether I am watching it or not. Whereas some people watch it for 30 mins, turn it off, on again, off again... TV won't last as long for sure. However leaving it on 24/7 would also mean premature failure. I always think if there is a standby function too, use it.


JSmith
I have to admit, I only turn on my TV 2-3 times a week. It's a 2010 or so Samsung top model and sucks nearly 200W, so yeah, I don't leave it on even though it has auto-standby (never checked how well it works). :) The music system must always be ready, though. :)
 

restorer-john

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For sure, so there needs to be a balance. For example I get home and turn on my TV and it stays on all night whether I am watching it or not. Whereas some people watch it for 30 mins, turn it off, on again, off again... TV won't last as long for sure. However leaving it on 24/7 would also mean premature failure. I always think if there is a standby function too, use it.

I reckon my TV should last at least 100 years then. I watched Top Gun Maverick a few weeks ago and it hasn't been turned on since.
 

pablolie

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I have to admit, I only turn on my TV 2-3 times a week. It's a 2010 or so Samsung top model and sucks nearly 200W, so yeah, I don't leave it on even though it has auto-standby (never checked how well it works). :) The music system must always be ready, though. :)
Adding to that: I think the key is that if you care about equipment longevity as well as your power bill, simply make sure that you consider that when you bring in new gear to your place.

I do have a remote "cabin in the woods" that at this point in time is mostly solar powered (it is connected to the grid, but it is very unreliable), and I know my power budget is very constrained. I was thinking about taking an old Luxman amp (not top of the line, really not - it was when Luxman when down-market in the early 90s) there but nah, that thing consumes 50W doing nothing... and as much as I would have liked the reuse and nostalgia (and it sounds very good) ... I got a NAD D3020 for that. Awesome power management.
 
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