Tube sound - what the artist/engineer intended?

[bmc0]

Shouldn't I be listening to those olden recordings with tube amplification, ideally vintage, as those albums were produced with tube technology and were meant by all concerned - artists, musicians, producers, engineers - to be heard through tube amps?

One big problem with this idea is that "tube sound" has no precise meaning. There were tube amps back in the '50s that had low enough distortion and flat enough frequency response to sound identical to good solid state amps. There were also more "colorful" amps with rolled off highs and/or lows, high distortion (especially in the bass, due to undersized output transformers), and high output impedance. The last one is one of the more significant factors, especially with multi-way speakers, but the precise effect depends on the speaker and its electrical impedance.

If you assume a good HiFi tube amp, the biggest difference between a vintage and modern setup is going to be the speakers, not the amp. And of course, speakers varied widely in their specific failings (and still do, but to a lesser extent).

For reference, here are some details on a 1955 HiFi tube amp design by Mullard. Lots of negative feedback (30dB global voltage feedback, plus the use of 20% screen taps) and wide open-loop bandwidth means low distortion (<0.05% THD at 20W), high damping factor (approx. 50, or 0.16Ω for an 8Ω secondary, from 30Hz-20kHz), and virtually perfectly flat frequency response from 3Hz to 30kHz.

 

[Robin L]

I agree but you'll notice how the OP's friend's argument about why OP should use a vintage tube amp implies some kind of morality.

Funny thing is that if we should be using period gear to listen to period recordings then I'd think the turntable, pickup, needle and speakers would have more impact. Why is OP's friend particularly concerned about the amp, I wonder?

I recall hearing an acoustic 78 reproduced via a vintage, high quality acoustic player. No question that there was something fundamentally different about that sound, sounding much more "alive" in spite of suffering from restricted frequency response. The Nimbus record company made a number of CDs where acoustic 78s were reproduced via vintage gear, recorded in a surround sound format in a room with good acoustic characteristics. Those CDs, compared to hearing the same sort of recording via a vintage player, were 'meh'.

 

[Multicore]

I recall hearing an acoustic 78 reproduced via a vintage, high quality acoustic player. No question that there was something fundamentally different about that sound, sounding much more "alive" in spite of suffering from restricted frequency response. The Nimbus record company made a number of CDs where acoustic 78s were reproduced via vintage gear, recorded in a surround sound format in a room with good acoustic characteristics. Those CDs, compared to hearing the same sort of recording via a vintage player, were 'meh'.

Interesting. I sometimes wonder how this works. Perhaps it's visual cues together with being able to move in the sound field and expectations and who knows what. I've come across some digital transfers of old 78s on The Internet Archive where it specified which species of thorn was used and so on. There ought to be lots of scope for experiment here and more interesting than tube amps to me.

 

[mhardy6647]

It's not only about amps.
So, as the artist indented...

View attachment 474354


Look at the size of the speaker.
It's this one:

View attachment 474355
(Source)
Now you can take it from here.

(I'm nuts about '50s stuff, but classical ones and those were used to create masterpieces of the era, "Living Stereo" works for example)

The RCA LC-1A is a magnificent coax. I'd have a pair, but I cannot afford a pair... I make do with Altec 604E Duplexes.

I do know folks, though...

PS Elvis sounds amazing on LC-1As.

 

[Deleted member 87496]

I agree but you'll notice how the OP's friend's argument about why OP should use a vintage tube amp implies some kind of morality.

Funny thing is that if we should be using period gear to listen to period recordings then I'd think the turntable, pickup, needle and speakers would have more impact. Why is OP's friend particularly concerned about the amp, I wond

One big problem with this idea is that "tube sound" has no precise meaning. There were tube amps back in the '50s that had low enough distortion and flat enough frequency response to sound identical to good solid state amps. There were also more "colorful" amps with rolled off highs and/or lows, high distortion (especially in the bass, due to undersized output transformers), and high output impedance. The last one is one of the more significant factors, especially with multi-way speakers, but the precise effect depends on the speaker and its electrical impedance.

If you assume a good HiFi tube amp, the biggest difference between a vintage and modern setup is going to be the speakers, not the amp. And of course, speakers varied widely in their specific failings (and still do, but to a lesser extent).

For reference, here are some details on a 1955 HiFi tube amp design by Mullard. Lots of negative feedback (30dB global voltage feedback, plus the use of 20% screen taps) and wide open-loop bandwidth means low distortion (<0.05% THD at 20W), high damping factor (approx. 50, or 0.16Ω for an 8Ω secondary, from 30Hz-20kHz), and virtually perfectly flat frequency response from 3Hz to 30kHz.

I was painting with broad strokes, it turns out. I didn't know that tube amps can be as transparent and distortion-free as solid state ones. Thanks for the info. Would you know of any site that has done measurements on popular vintage tube amps such as Dynaco, Scott, Fisher, etc.? It'd be cool to see how they literally measure up. thanks again.

 

[Robin L]

I was painting with broad strokes, it turns out. I didn't know that tube amps can be as transparent and distortion-free as solid state ones. Thanks for the info. Would you know of any site that has done measurements on popular vintage tube amps such as Dynaco, Scott, Fisher, etc.? It'd be cool to see how they literally measure up. thanks again.

'Review and Measurements of Dynaco ST 70'

Apr 4, 2019

This is a review and detailed measurements of the vintage Dynakit Dynaco Stereo 70. It is on kind loan from a member who bought it used online and repaired it. Previous owner hand upgraded it but could not get it working.

Given that it is 60 years old, one can forgive the rust and dust:

Some of the online samples I have seen are a lot more crusty.

The unit I received came from matched pairs of tubes from Apex. While each pair had the same parameters, the ones for each channel varied quite a bit. As you will see, this is reflected in the measurements.

This unit...

• amirm

• 

 

[AJM1981]

Coming from a production background I wonder why someone ever would want to replicate what's been heard at the recording studio. If that is the goal, one would build a recording studio in the same dimensions as the one in which their favorite band is recorded and get the same studio monitors to sit back and enjoy. But that would be a disappointment, as is not that enjoyable. One might even get bored out if there is no heavy bias of being a huge fan of the band being recorded.

Let's take two sides here..

The side of the band playing.
A recording studio is usually tailored to get a good recording, not to be enjoyable for listening for an audience. Yes, being there might be an experience for once in its own right of being in a recording studio, but not really as in listening to a concert in a small room setting with better acoustics. Some studio's feel like similar to car interiors for new ones in acoustic sense, to prevent soundwaves leaking into each other and having more control of the separated tracks afterwards. Functional for what it is used for.

The side of the producer.
Not really that exiting to just observe. For them it is just work, good work none the less and personally challenging maybe, but work. Yes, it is probably exiting to witness the blue prints being laid out, and later being treated, but listening is purely clinical with a near dead environment when it comes to reverb.

Hi-fi is a different ball game. The bit of reverb in Living rooms gives that little bit of extra excitement back and having slightly colored equipment does not really make a huge difference. As usually the 'average out' is being applied to make the record sound palpable at any system.

I would say, get some nice large deep cabinets like the modern Linton's or something, connect anything.. colored or uncolored, up to taste, when it comes to amps. Trim down heavy reverb to just an arbitrary fraction (curtains, rugs and furniture do the trick) and just enjoy.

 

[MattHooper]

I love the clarity and transparency of today's solid state amps. I am an advocate, like most of you, of hearing songs as the artist/producer/engineer meant them to be heard - without coloration or distortions (imagine the Mona Lisa as a blond or redhead...yikes). In the early 60s, my parents bought a new stereo system for our living room. It had a Scott tube amp. I'm not the nostalgic type, so in older age feel no need to consider, much less explore, modern or vintage tube amps (if it ain't broke...). But I recently had a conversation with someone who is zealous about early jazz (Louis, Ella, Ellington, Bix, Rich, on and on and on, you name it). I often listen to albums recorded in the 40's, 50's, and early-mid 60's - not just jazz (Parker, Coltrane, Miles), but blues (Howlin' Wolf, Skip James, Bessie), country (Hank, Cash, Patsy), early rock and roll (Elvis, Chuck, Sun Record compilations, Beatles), folk (Guthrie, Baez, Dylan), gospel (Soul Stirrers, Mahalia) - LOVE music from those seminal days of American music, a golden age of American artistry. About 50% of my current listening are albums from this era. Yet, this guy pointed out, ALL my listening is with a solid state amp - Shouldn't I be listening to those olden recordings with tube amplification, ideally vintage, as those albums were produced with tube technology and were meant by all concerned - artists, musicians, producers, engineers - to be heard through tube amps? I dislike the very idea of tubes, too inconvenient and complex, and am definitely not at all keen on introducing less transparency/more distortion to my music. But my friend's logic has been gnawing at me. Should I get a tube amp specifically (and only) for those pre-SS recordings to truly hear them as they were intended to be heard? I dread going down the tube rabbit hole and would welcome to learn of anything we're overlooking that would make a tubular adventure unnecessary (or a downright bad idea). Help, please! Any and all thoughts are appreciated...many thanks in advance.

I’ve been using tube amplifiers for 25 years so I’m certainly not against using tube amps.

But I think that the justification you are seeking for using a tube amplifier doesn’t make much sense, for several reasons.

1. Anything that was recorded using tube gear at the time will have recorded any audible tube colorations, and if you just play that back accurately, you will hear that.
2. Tube amplifiers can sound indistinguishable from solid state, and when they do depart audibly from solid state, given all the different designs they can depart in different ways, and interact with all sorts of different loudspeakers different ways. So you’re not going to get any predictable “tube sound” to begin with, and you would never know if you are reproducing the type of “tube sound” that were heard by the people making the recordings.
3. You are already likely heavily departing from what people heard back then and various Studios, simply with your choice of speakers. Whether you choose coloured speakers or modern neutral speakers, you’re not gonna be able to re-create all the different speakers that were used for monitoring and mastering those recordings you love.

So all in all it just seems like a fool’s errand.

I suppose one could make a case that if you bought some really old school speakers of the time, that you might get more of a feeling for the type of sound systems, people were listening on at the time. But beyond that, I think trying to chase what do you think they heard in the studio is going to be impossible.

It’s my view that what ultimately matters is whether you are enjoying the music on your system.

Personally, I love a bit of tube colouration in my system - at least the amps that I have used in my system . In the big picture, it’s subtle, but nudges the sound in a direction that I absolutely love and crave. One of those tiny details that as an audiophile makes for a substantial subjective improvement because of what I value.

I’d also agree with others that, if you find yourself intrigued with tube amplifiers, including vintage, it can be a fun route to explore. It’s surprising how good old vintage tube stuff can sound. (One of my favourite amplifiers of all time that I owned was an Eico HF 81 - 14w/side classic integrated amp. That’s a fun amp to play with because it is likely to give you some of that old tube amp flavour - plus it has tone controls).

But if it’s something you’re feeling dragged into by some other concern like chasing what they heard back in the day, then I think it wouldn’t be worth it.

Here’s one of my Conrad Johnson tube mono blocks - 25 years old and you’d have to take it for my cold, dead hands:

 

[Deleted member 87496]

I’ve been using tube amplifiers for 25 years so I’m certainly not against using tube amps.

But I think that the justification you are seeking for using a tube amplifier doesn’t make much sense, for several reasons.

1. Anything that was recorded using tube gear at the time will have recorded any audible tube colorations, and if you just play that back accurately, you will hear that.
2. Tube amplifiers can sound indistinguishable from solid state, and when they do depart audibly from solid state, given all the different designs they can depart in different ways, and interact with all sorts of different loudspeakers different ways. So you’re not going to get any predictable “tube sound” to begin with, and you would never know if you are reproducing the type of “tube sound” that were heard by the people making the recordings.
3. You are already likely heavily departing from what people heard back then and various Studios, simply with your choice of speakers. Whether you choose coloured speakers or modern neutral speakers, you’re not gonna be able to re-create all the different speakers that were used for monitoring and mastering those recordings you love.

So all in all it just seems like a fool’s errand.

I suppose one could make a case that if you bought some really old school speakers of the time, that you might get more of a feeling for the type of sound systems, people were listening on at the time. But beyond that, I think trying to chase what do you think they heard in the studio is going to be impossible.

It’s my view that what ultimately matters is whether you are enjoying the music on your system.

Personally, I love a bit of tube colouration in my system - at least the amps that I have used in my system . In the big picture, it’s subtle, but nudges the sound in a direction that I absolutely love and crave. One of those tiny details that as an audiophile makes for a substantial subjective improvement because of what I value.

I’d also agree with others that, if you find yourself intrigued with tube amplifiers, including vintage, it can be a fun route to explore. It’s surprising how good old vintage tube stuff can sound. (One of my favourite amplifiers of all time that I owned was an Eico HF 81 - 14w/side classic integrated amp. That’s a fun amp to play with because it is likely to give you some of that old tube amp flavour - plus it has tone controls).

But if it’s something you’re feeling dragged into by some other concern like chasing what they heard back in the day, then I think it wouldn’t be worth it.

Here’s one of my Conrad Johnson tube mono blocks - 25 years old and you’d have to take it for my cold, dead hands:

Thank you for this post...it's both thorough and elegant. I've been thinking about this issue since my original post and the perspectives shared in the responses. I have always found the rationale of reproducing the sound of what the artist intended to be a compelling and logical position (hence, my love of transparency). However, with more olden albums, where technology has since changed so dramatically, that principle gets awfully wobbly and impractical (yes, a fool's errand! well put). And as you point out, in this situation, the guiding principle becomes one of listener preference, that it's fine to like something that adds a bit of color. Still, I truly dislike colorized movies...on that I'll never budge! Btw, your system is gorgeous....I dream of day when science is able to offer objective measurements on visual aesthetics, there must exist principles today which articulate what is pleasing the human eye and brain (symmetry, etc.). Amir loves aesthetics, begins every review with them, maybe he can discover/invent those measurements...lol.

 

[Deleted member 87496]

'Review and Measurements of Dynaco ST 70'

Apr 4, 2019

This is a review and detailed measurements of the vintage Dynakit Dynaco Stereo 70. It is on kind loan from a member who bought it used online and repaired it. Previous owner hand upgraded it but could not get it working.

Given that it is 60 years old, one can forgive the rust and dust:

Some of the online samples I have seen are a lot more crusty.

The unit I received came from matched pairs of tubes from Apex. While each pair had the same parameters, the ones for each channel varied quite a bit. As you will see, this is reflected in the measurements.

This unit...

• amirm

• 

I'm leaning to take the tube plunge with the Dynaco ST 70. Seems like the most popular tube amp ever? Now to keep my eyes peeled for a restored one. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Robin L]

I'm leaning to take the tube plunge with the Dynaco ST 70. Seems like the most popular tube amp ever? Now to keep my eyes peeled for a restored one. Thanks for sharing.

If you can find one cheap. Can't say it would be my first choice. I've heard Conrad Johnson and other "High End" tube power amplifiers, have to say they are noticeably better, though the greater difference would mostly be new (Conrad Johnson) vs. old. Which makes me suggest, if possible, to go to an audio salon with your Elvis records (or whatever) and listen to modern tube gear.

 

[Deleted member 87496]

Coming from a production background I wonder why someone ever would want to replicate what's been heard at the recording studio. If that is the goal, one would build a recording studio in the same dimensions as the one in which their favorite band is recorded and get the same studio monitors to sit back and enjoy. But that would be a disappointment, as is not that enjoyable. One might even get bored out if there is no heavy bias of being a huge fan of the band being recorded.

Let's take two sides here..

The side of the band playing.
A recording studio is usually tailored to get a good recording, not to be enjoyable for listening for an audience. Yes, being there might be an experience for once in its own right of being in a recording studio, but not really as in listening to a concert in a small room setting with better acoustics. Some studio's feel like similar to car interiors for new ones in acoustic sense, to prevent soundwaves leaking into each other and having more control of the separated tracks afterwards. Functional for what it is used for.

The side of the producer.
Not really that exiting to just observe. For them it is just work, good work none the less and personally challenging maybe, but work. Yes, it is probably exiting to witness the blue prints being laid out, and later being treated, but listening is purely clinical with a near dead environment when it comes to reverb.

Hi-fi is a different ball game. The bit of reverb in Living rooms gives that little bit of extra excitement back and having slightly colored equipment does not really make a huge difference. As usually the 'average out' is being applied to make the record sound palpable at any system.

I would say, get some nice large deep cabinets like the modern Linton's or something, connect anything.. colored or uncolored, up to taste, when it comes to amps. Trim down heavy reverb to just an arbitrary fraction (curtains, rugs and furniture do the trick) and just enjoy.

Thanks for the post, good stuff. After thinking about this and everyone's responses since my original post, I agree wholeheartedly with you. I intend to make my guiding principle in this particular situation one of enjoyment, not "transparency." Btw, not for nothing, but in my original post, my question wasn't simply re: the sound in the recording studio. My point was that engineers and producers before, say, 1965, created the final recording in the studio that they knew would then be heard in the home through a tube amplifier and their colorations (though the Dynaco ST 70 tested pretty well with Amir). But I'm guessing many popular amplifiers at the time, e.g., Scotts and Fishers, wouldn't measure well today. I admittedly might be wrong about that, though. Based on this thread, I have my eyes peeled for a restored ST 70 and its matching preamp - I'm especially curious how Billie Holiday sounds through it. Many thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[MattHooper]

If you can find one cheap. Can't say it would be my first choice. I've heard Conrad Johnson and other "High End" tube power amplifiers, have to say they are noticeably better, though the greater difference would mostly be new (Conrad Johnson) vs. old. Which makes me suggest, if possible, to go to an audio salon with your Elvis records (or whatever) and listen to modern tube gear.

I’m generally loath to recommend tube amps myself - I mostly only have experience testing out the ones I’ve used over the years, and because you never know what you’re going to get with a tube amp you aren’t familiar with.

If somebody is looking for a tube amplifier that actually departs from the sound of a solid state amplifier, in my experience, I would be most comfortable recommending something like an old Conrad Johnson MV50 or MV55 amp. Those EL34 tube based designs were the “tubiest” sounding I’d ever used - giving that lush rounded textured sound people so often attribute to tubes.

And my other recommendation would be to find an Eico HF81, because they could be pretty cheap and they are an integrated amp and don’t require a preamplifier. Plus they measure in a way that they are pretty likely to sound different from many solid state amplifiers. Sounded gorgeous in my system.

 

[egellings]

I enjoy my home brewed circlotron-style mono block amplifiers and separate home brewed 2-box preamp (raw power supply in one box, preamp and HV regulator in another box), which accepts phono as well as line level inputs. Heaters all have soft-start DC heaters, and I have had no problem with the preamp tubes by using DC on their heaters. Mono blocks each use 4 KT88's directly driven by cathode followers, one follower per tube. Negative KT88 grid bias is applied to the driver (follower) tube grids, and the drivers apply this bias, with the signal, directly to the output tubes. The amps will each hit about 140 watts before reaching 1% THD. OPTs and power transformers are home stacked and wound, too. The amps weigh about 90 pounds apiece, and you need one for each ear. I also have a Bryston 4Bst S.S. amplifier that I repaired for someone who died while I had the amplifier. It took about three weeks to fix the amp, most of it waiting for replacement parts to arrive. I did not know the amp's owner, and I had no idea as to whom to send the repaired amplifier. I've had it for years now, so I consider it mine.

 

[Deleted member 87496]

I’m generally loath to recommend tube amps myself - I mostly only have experience testing out the ones I’ve used over the years, and because you never know what you’re going to get with a tube amp you aren’t familiar with.

If somebody is looking for a tube amplifier that actually departs from the sound of a solid state amplifier, in my experience, I would be most comfortable recommending something like an old Conrad Johnson MV50 or MV55 amp. Those EL34 tube based designs were the “tubiest” sounding I’d ever used - giving that lush rounded textured sound people so often attribute to tubes.

And my other recommendation would be to find an Eico HF81, because they could be pretty cheap and they are an integrated amp and don’t require a preamplifier. Plus they measure in a way that they are pretty likely to sound different from many solid state amplifiers. Sounded gorgeous in my system.

Thank you for the Eico HF81 recommendation. I love the simple old-school look of it. I'll keep my eyes open for one of those too.

 

[mhardy6647]

Thank you for the Eico HF81 recommendation. I love the simple old-school look of it. I'll keep my eyes open for one of those too.

It is a pretty good amplifier within its limitations (i.e., 14 watts per channel -- which, for me, is medium-high power... but not for folks with today's sadistically insensitive loudspeakers). They ain't cheap no mo', though*.

An early HF-81 (OPTs including 32 ohm taps are found only on early variants) that I rehabbed myself was my daily driver for a number of years before I went fleapower.



_____________
*here's why:

Post in thread 'Do You Miss Knobs and Dials and Switches?'

Jun 17, 2025

Ah, immediately spotted the Eico!

Reminds me of my lovely refurbished Eico HF81 that I sadly sold a while back. Boy I loved that amp!

View attachment 457919

View attachment 457920

View attachment 457921

@MattHooper - ahh, "Matt", "Matt", "Matt"... you have triggered me!
I am a long, long, long time fan of things EICO. Literally grew up with the stuff.
The AF-4 (SE EL84, a budget product*) seen in the photo I posted has been in my family for its whole life (i.e., much of my life), having belonged to one of my aunts (now deceased), who passed it along to me ca. 2007.

The HF-81 is a nice...

• mhardy6647

• 

 

[MattHooper]

Thank you for the Eico HF81 recommendation. I love the simple old-school look of it. I'll keep my eyes open for one of those too.

In case you haven’t used it, HiFi Shark is an excellent resource for buying used equipment, as it scours the Internet for secondhand sales of whatever equipment you’re looking for:

HifiShark — Used Hifi Price Search Engine

Search and compare second hand Hifi equipment from 400+ sources world wide. Search by popular brands such as Accuphase, Hegel, Krell, Luxman, Mark Levinson and Sonus faber, and by categories like floorstanding speakers, integrated amplifiers, speaker systems, turntables and more.

www.hifishark.com

When you sign up, you can have it send you notices when the equipment you’re looking for shows up on the used market.

The CJ amps can be somewhat more expensive than the Eico. Though I’ve seen some MV50 or MV55s show up at around $1,500 CAD.

The issue with the Eico is that it got a rave review on Stereophile some years back as a cult classic, and that raised its second hand prices. I myself only discovered the Eico when my amplifier went into the shop and a friend loaned me this old amplifier that looked like it been pulled from a garbage. I didn’t know anything about it. But when I started using it, I was completely gob smacked by the sound. I was so taken that I ended up buying an Eico for myself.

Anyway… as an example for used prices,quick search yields:

HifiShark — Used Hifi Price Search Engine

Used Eico Hf81 for sale on 400+ second hand hifi sites & shops. Use Hifi Shark to monitor pricing and global availability

www.hifishark.com

A lot of the prices can be a bit higher because the HF81 has been thoroughly refurbished. So if you’re looking to pay less, it’s ideal to try and find one that hasn’t had the more expensive refurbishing, but which is still in good condition.

In that regard, this listing I found is one that would interest me. It’s a very good price for the Eico - $950 USD.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650248682-excellent-condition-of-the-eico-hf-81/

Again, one thing I like about Eico is that it’s an integrated amp, it’s small and not too heavy, and so if your “ playing with tube amps” (like still also using your solid state amps ) it’s such an easy amp to just switch in and out of your system. And because it’s a classic, you can always resell it easily.

 

[Deleted member 87496]

In case you haven’t used it, HiFi Shark is an excellent resource for buying used equipment, as it scours the Internet for secondhand sales of whatever equipment you’re looking for:

HifiShark — Used Hifi Price Search Engine

Search and compare second hand Hifi equipment from 400+ sources world wide. Search by popular brands such as Accuphase, Hegel, Krell, Luxman, Mark Levinson and Sonus faber, and by categories like floorstanding speakers, integrated amplifiers, speaker systems, turntables and more.

www.hifishark.com

When you sign up, you can have it send you notices when the equipment you’re looking for shows up on the used market.

The CJ amps can be somewhat more expensive than the Eico. Though I’ve seen some MV50 or MV55s show up at around $1,500 CAD.

The issue with the Eico is that it got a rave review on Stereophile some years back as a cult classic, and that raised its second hand prices. I myself only discovered the Eico when my amplifier went into the shop and a friend loaned me this old amplifier that looked like it been pulled from a garbage. I didn’t know anything about it. But when I started using it, I was completely gob smacked by the sound. I was so taken that I ended up buying an Eico for myself.

Anyway… as an example for used prices,quick search yields:

HifiShark — Used Hifi Price Search Engine

Used Eico Hf81 for sale on 400+ second hand hifi sites & shops. Use Hifi Shark to monitor pricing and global availability

www.hifishark.com

A lot of the prices can be a bit higher because the HF81 has been thoroughly refurbished. So if you’re looking to pay less, it’s ideal to try and find one that hasn’t had the more expensive refurbishing, but which is still in good condition.

In that regard, this listing I found is one that would interest me. It’s a very good price for the Eico - $950 USD.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650248682-excellent-condition-of-the-eico-hf-81/

Again, one thing I like about Eico is that it’s an integrated amp, it’s small and not too heavy, and so if your “ playing with tube amps” (like still also using your solid state amps ) it’s such an easy amp to just switch in and out of your system. And because it’s a classic, you can always resell it easily.

I love this community...you all offer a wealth of information, so appreciated!!! I will definitely check Hi-Fi Shark out and its automatic notifications (didn't know about that feature). I fear I'm becoming Eico-obsessed...lol. I guess it's the nature of the hobby. Thanks again!

 

[DMill]

I'm leaning to take the tube plunge with the Dynaco ST 70. Seems like the most popular tube amp ever? Now to keep my eyes peeled for a restored one. Thanks for sharing.

There are a number of “classic” tube amp designs. Getting a good deal on a McIntosh tube amp is never going to be bad as you likely can resell it for its cost with little depreciation. if I were buying tube amps today, I’d look for the big names like Mc, Marantz, Conrad, Audio Research, maybe Cary, probably a few others. I’m not convinced buying newly manufactured versions of these classic designs isn’t a terrible idea from value perspective though. The view of tube amps being better in the audiophile community isn’t what it was 30 years ago. Also, the cost of the tubes themselves is at an all time high. So unless you just love blowing money, tube rolling is prohibitive. That said, I have a Cary integrated tube amp I’ve loved very much for 30 years. I don’t use it much, it sits in a spare bedroom with some B&W speakers. But it’s fun to flip the switch on 42lbs of glowing lights and metal once in awhile. It sounds fine to my ears and at lower listening levels I’d challenge most anyone to hear much of a difference vs. my current Yamaha solid state amp in a blind test.

 

[mhardy6647]

I love this community...you all offer a wealth of information, so appreciated!!! I will definitely check Hi-Fi Shark out and its automatic notifications (didn't know about that feature). I fear I'm becoming Eico-obsessed...lol. I guess it's the nature of the hobby. Thanks again!

Could be worse...






I quite literally grew up with EICO stuff -- my father loved their hifi and service equipment kits and built many for himself and for others.
That scroungy looking HFT-90 FM mono tuner in one of the photos above is the very one I grew up with. The AF-4 stereo integrated SE EL84 integrated below it has been in my family for its whole existence as well.

Pro tip Give serious consideration to one of their stereo power amps (or two of their monoblock power amps) HF-89, HF-87, HF-14, or HF-86-- EICO used reliable circuit designs with excellent to outstanding quality output iron. Their PTs, though, did tend to be a little undersized for the VA demands put upon them and tend to run hot, especially with today's higher (US) AC mains voltage. In some cases (the HF-81 being one), slightly beefed-up drop-in replacement PT are still available - in the case of the HF-81, still available from the company that made the originals(!), Heyboer.