TUBE PreAmplifier - Educate/Guide Me

[Born2Rock]

I am elated to have found this Forum. I am a long standing member of the Klipsch Forum and thought I'd give this a try here.

I run my Klipsch JUBILEEs in 2-Channel mode with a QUAD array (and, also 5.1 Dvd-Audio Surround mode ) .
For Surround Processing, I use the Marantxz AV-7703 always in ''Direct Audio' mode.

The DAC in the Marantz Processor does well for 2-channel listening, using my HDMI from Pioneer Elite UDP-LX500 player.
But I am seeking a separate 2-Channel dedicated TUBE PreAmp for ANALOG only.

Thus my reason/question I have for you all here :
...I need to be schooled on what Tube PreAmp I should consider; something that WILL make a vast improvement to my situation.

I know a Schiit Freya+ ($900) might be a start, to just demo and get a 'flavor of' what a Tube Pre might do,
...but I am soley interested in what you ALL have to say.
Obviously , you can recommend a $5000+ preAmp, ... but I am NOT willing to go THAT FAR in investing.

SO , what do you all have to say about Tube Pre Amplifiers for a discrete 2-Channel Listening experience, under $3200 range ?

Pic attached are of my Klipsch Jubilee 5.1 front stage / my Nelson Pass FIRST WATT Mono Blocks for K-402 Horns/ Carver Pro ZR1600 Mono Blocks for bass Cabinets / Xilica XP-4080 DSP's for time alignment+PEQ tuning...

Thank You all in advance for your recommendations on what TO get -or- even what NOT to waste my time on.

~Rock On ,
Craig LeMay

 

[daftcombo]

Tubes don't improve sound.

 

[Born2Rock]

Tubes don't improve sound.

So, are you stating that tubes diminish sound quality ? ...and I may be going in the wrong direction by seeking a Tube PreAmp?

Thank you for replying so quickly.

~Rock On,
Craig LeMay

 

[daftcombo]

So, are you stating that tubes diminish sound quality ? ...and I may be going in the wrong direction by seeking a Tube PreAmp?

Thank you for replying so quickly.

~Rock On,
Craig LeMay

Yes. It eithers degrades sound, either is transparent. As every audio component.

 

[Thomas savage]

Tubes don't improve sound.

People like them though, I'm sure someone will be able to recommend some decent ones .

 

[Born2Rock]

People like them though, I'm sure someone will be able to recommend some decent ones .

Are YOU using a Tube Pre for 2-Channel, Thomas ?

Thank you for replying so quickly.

~Rock On,
Craig LeMay

 

[Lorenzo74]

I‘ve been told Tubes add 2nd order H distortion coloring sound in a way many “audiophiles” likes.
this effect as well as the way tubes light glow the darkness makes many “audiophiles” keen to spend +k$/€ on fascinating old style HiFi gear. Why not?

de gustibus non disputandum est

Best
L.

 

[BDWoody]

I am elated to have found this Forum. I am a long standing member of the Klipsch Forum and thought I'd give this a try here.

I run my Klipsch JUBILEEs in 2-Channel mode with a QUAD array (and, also 5.1 Dvd-Audio Surround mode ) .
For Surround Processing, I use the Marantxz AV-7703 always in ''Direct Audio' mode.

The DAC in the Marantz Processor does well for 2-channel listening, using my HDMI from Pioneer Elite UDP-LX500 player.
But I am seeking a separate 2-Channel dedicated TUBE PreAmp for ANALOG only.

Thus my reason/question I have for you all here :
...I need to be schooled on what Tube PreAmp I should consider; something that WILL make a vast improvement to my situation.

I know a Schiit Freya+ ($900) might be a start, to just demo and get a 'flavor of' what a Tube Pre might do,
...but I am soley interested in what you ALL have to say.
Obviously , you can recommend a $5000+ preAmp, ... but I am NOT willing to go THAT FAR in investing.

SO , what do you all have to say about Tube Pre Amplifiers for a discrete 2-Channel Listening experience, under $3200 range ?

Pic attached are of my Klipsch Jubilee 5.1 front stage / my Nelson Pass FIRST WATT Mono Blocks for K-402 Horns/ Carver Pro ZR1600 Mono Blocks for bass Cabinets / Xilica XP-4080 DSP's for time alignment+PEQ tuning...

Thank You all in advance for your recommendations on what TO get -or- even what NOT to waste my time on.

~Rock On ,
Craig LeMay

Welcome!

For me, I prefer to have the 'cleanest' signal I can get to my speakers...I don't seek extra coloration or euphonics, as I can add that if desired with an effects box of some kind.

Tubes are very cool... (HOT), but they aren't going to make the signal cleaner than what other (cheaper) options can give me.

I do like my Schiit Freya S, so if I wanted a taste of tubes I might try the tube version, but maybe more research into what tubes actually do for you could help. If you want the lowest noise and distortion, tubes aren't going to get you closer...for the most part.

That all said, not crapping on your post...please don't take it that way!

 

[SIY]

What, specifically, are you trying to fix? If you don't define a target, you won't know where to shoot.

 

[Born2Rock]

Welcome!

For me, I prefer to have the 'cleanest' signal I can get to my speakers...I don't seek extra coloration or euphonics, as I can add that if desired with an effects box of some kind.

Tubes are very cool... (HOT), but they aren't going to make the signal cleaner than what other (cheaper) options can give me.

I do like my Schiit Freya S, so if I wanted a taste of tubes I might try the tube version, but maybe more research into what tubes actually do for you could help. If you want the lowest noise and distortion, tubes aren't going to get you closer...for the most part.

That all said, not crapping on your post...please don't take it that way!

----------------------------------------------------
You most certainly are NOT crapping on the thread , my friend.

I need to be schooled, and everyone's suggestions/opinions are EXACTLY what I am seeking.

Thank You so much, for your input !

~Rock On,
Craig LeMay

 

[Born2Rock]

What, specifically, are you trying to fix? If you don't define a target, you won't know where to shoot.

I'm not trying to FIX anything; I am just curious IF + WHAT a dedicated 2-channel TUBE pre Amp would offer me, sonically.

Thank You for your reply,
~Rock On,
Craig LeMay

 

[pozz]

I‘ve been told Tubes add 2nd order H distortion coloring sound in a way many “audiophiles” likes.
this effect as well as the way tubes light glow the darkness makes many “audiophiles” keen to spend +k$/€ on fascinating old style HiFi gear. Why not?

de gustibus non disputandum est

Best
L.

The harmonic levels are too low to make a difference. For example: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...be-rolling-of-schiit-saga-pre-amplifier.6522/

When tubes are driven into clipping, they compress the signal and add many high-level harmonic and enharmonic spurs. There is otherwise no difference.

Gustibus can be disputandumed when the source of the gustibus is mistaken or misrepresented.

 

[SIY]

I'm not trying to FIX anything; I am just curious IF + WHAT a dedicated 2-channel TUBE pre Amp would offer me, sonically.

Thank You for your reply,
~Rock On,
Craig LeMay

Gain that you don't need.

Dirty secret that we experienced tube guys know: there's no magic there.

 

[Lorenzo74]

The harmonic levels are too low to make a difference. For example: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...be-rolling-of-schiit-saga-pre-amplifier.6522/

When tubes are driven into clipping, they compress the signal and add many high-level harmonic and enharmonic spurs. There is otherwise no difference.

Gustibus can be disputandumed when the source of the gustibus is mistaken or misrepresented.

thank you for letting us know you are a tube lover, you are welcome, it’s totally fine to me, DE GUSTIBUS!

I don’t think I Made a mistake, Just because I’ve been told: I never had and I never measured a tube. Too expensive to me for the value they bring today. Maybe ok in the sixties, but pls don’t take it as personal, sincerely).

however are you sure of what you are saying?

1) do anyone listen to tubes driving them into clipping? I hope not!
2)the post you linked clearly confirm my previous statement, tube 2nd Harmonic is dominant even far from Clipping. See it at -97dB at 2 kHz on 1kHz pilot signal. Some audiophile says (again not me...) it makes sound warmer... If you don’t believe to them just read below...

if you are interested I have one recommendation to you and to whoever might be interested into this topic. (I found it very interesting I have to admit):
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/the-pass-h2-harmonic-generator/

this is an interesting interview to N.Pass about how H2 distortion improve sound (amplitude, phase,..). really interesting... and He is a kind gentlemam

my best
L.

 

[Born2Rock]

thank you for letting us know you are a tube lover, you are welcome, it’s totally fine to me, DE GUSTIBUS!

...if you are interested I have one recommendation to you and to whoever might be interested into this topic. (I found it very interesting I have to admit):
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/the-pass-h2-harmonic-generator/

this is an interesting interview to N.Pass about how H2 distortion improve sound (amplitude, phase,..). really interesting... and He is a kind gentlemam

my best
L.

I use nothing but Nelson Pass FIRST WATT amps on all my upper bi-amp'd Klipsch JUBILEE K-402 Horns.

I have tried many of his First Watt amp models in my system, and have settle on the J2's.
~Nelson Pass RULES, in my world !

~Rock On,
Craig LeMay

 

[Thomas savage]

Are YOU using a Tube Pre for 2-Channel, Thomas ?

Thank you for replying so quickly.

~Rock On,
Craig LeMay

I used to use a Audio Research ref 3 , tbh I didn't like it . It was quite thin sounding to me at the time . It did look cool though.

 

[Born2Rock]

I used to use a Audio Research ref 3 , tbh I didn't like it . It was quite thin sounding to me at the time . It did look cool though.

So what PRE are you using ?

I'm loving my Marantz AV-7703 Pre ,
...I just thought that there would be some 'magic' that a Tube Pre could bring to my 2-ch listening rig.

{ This thread's replies, certainly have already enlightened me on the Pro's or Cons of application...}

~Rock On,
Craig LeMay

 

[Thomas savage]

So what PRE are you using ?

I'm loving my Marantz AV-7703 Pre ,
...I just thought that there would be some 'magic' that a Tube Pre could bring to my 2-ch listening rig.

{ This thread's replies, certainly have already enlightened me on the Pro's or Cons of application...}

~Rock On,
Craig LeMay

I use this ,

https://www.anthemav.com/products-current/model=str-pre-amplifier/page=overview

 

[egellings]

A competent tube preamp should add vanishingly little coloration to the sound, since it's a small signal circuit (small voltage swings using inherently high voltage devices) and tends not to be heavily loaded down by the power amp it drives. Like a good S.S. preamp, the tube preamp simply shouldn't be there sonically. Tube power amps are another story, though. Power generation and difficult loads affect the performance in noticeable ways.

 

[Wes]

if "vast improvement" means a very "lush" sound then an older, used tube pre-amp may give you what you want - maybe an older Conrad-Johnson

you can get "warmth" just by altering the freq. response, so don't need tubes for that

it appears that Audio Research pre-amps started out rather lush decades ago, and got progressively more accurate but - as they say - still retain a sense of liquidity

** this is all like trying to find words to describe wines, so YMMV - even assuming the descriptors have some meaning found in objective reality

you will just have to buy & try to get the type of euphonic distortion you want

mea culpa, I like my LS25 Mk II and also liked my Sonic Frontiers Line One