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Tube AMP VS DSP Software to Fake the Tube Sound on a Solid State?

Ron Texas

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This is like asking for software to make a Corvette drive like a Silverado.
 

GeorgeWalk

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I had some tube amps. I much prefer good SS to tubes. Modern SS gets it. Adding tubes, to me, is like this:
1575339521610.png
 

Celty

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The SU-8 has "9 types of Sound color setting, not the digital filters, this feature using the DSP of ES9038Q2M to adjust the level of 2nd and 3rd distortion, make it sounds different.". These include 3 "Tube" emulations. Have not played with these, so will have to give them a spin.
 

Severian

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I've played around with some VSTs to add a bit of second harmonic distortion and I do enjoy the sound, particularly with guitar-based music. Fattens and warms up certain tones. I would not want the distortion hardwired into my system and none of these VSTs have become a long-term listening preference.

That said, I was recently gifted a Bottlehead Crack kit and am really looking forward to the build and finding out how it sounds with my HD6XXs.
 

jfetter

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Look at STC (super triode connection)for basic concept. A tube is in the amplifiers feedback. I been working on different line level topologies for several years. It works great and can be bypassed giving varying h2,4 and reduced h3,h5 levels. Definitely improves listening fun.
 

lashto

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This is like asking for software to make a Corvette drive like a Silverado.

An interesting comparison but I'll put in quite differently: software to make a 2020 Corvette drive like a 1965 Shelby Cobra.

Pretty sure that many/most car fans would want to have that ... and many actually do to some extent (e.g. automatic cars with a direct/manual-drive option). And a better comparison (IMHO), because it captures one of the main diffs between 2020 SS gear using copious amounts of feedback (==automated drive-assistance for cars) and the raw, pure, no-feedback power of the 1965 gear. Extra bonus, my 'updated' car-analogy is also perfectly time-aligned (2020 SS tech vs 1965 tube tech) :cool:




P.S.
I find it a bit annoying how tube/distortion fans are patronized quite often around here. And I am not even including myself into the tube-fan category. I am mostly a numbers/measurements guy, own and listen mostly to SS gear and will never buy audio gear by-ear (alone).
However, this tube vs. SS 'controversy' is a clear and 100% preference/taste thing and nobody's business (but 'mine'). The ~SS-mantra "no distortion is better than any distortion" is a good/effective one and technically true. But it will not convince/convert anyone who enjoys tube gear/sound. At best you'll annoy/confuse them ... more often it is actually a (barely veiled) insult and would push people away for no (good) reason.
Last time I checked, hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of tube devices are still sold and enjoyed all over the world. Some of the people/companies who build tube gear are worth praising for the solid engineering and innovative design, same as much as the SS ones. Tube gear measurements are same as important/useful. Also don't see any differences between the SS-users and tube-users as groups. Both groups contain roughly the same amounts of reasonable/smart/goodears and annoying/dumb/deaf people.
Plus, lots (most?!) of people simply enjoy both tube and SS gear; myself included. And I have a really hard time understanding why would anyone jump into annoying-SS-preacher mode just because I enjoy listening to 'beautifully flawed' tubes while tasting a good wine during late afternoon !? I mean, what's the point? why is that anyone's business? For me, that kind of 'SS preaching' sounds the same as telling people that white-cheese is the only clean/pure/real cheese and the yellow-cheese is a wasteful/useless 'distortion' of the white milk.

Anyway, end of (too long a) rant.// And hopefully this trend of bashing the tube-users with the SS-is-so-clean stick stops before it becomes really annoying!
 
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Ron Texas

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An interesting comparison but I'll put in quite differently: software to make a 2020 Corvette drive like a 1965 Shelby Cobra.

You have done a great job of showing how automotive analogies can be whatever you want them to be.
 

lashto

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You have done a great job of showing how automotive analogies can be whatever you want them to be.
...or you are just envious that my 'updated' car analogy is so much better :D


Joking aside, I mostly agree. Analogies of any kind (and particularly the over abused car-analogies) can way too easily end up in pernicious/slippery territory. They can be very useful at educating/helping people but usually they are much more useful for slick salesmen who just want to reach deep(er) into your pockets.
OTOH, a life without (car) analogies wouldn't be much fun :)
 
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Ron Texas

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...or you are just envious that my 'updated' car analogy is so much better :D


Joking aside, I mostly agree. :)

The C6 Z06 was a pure car. MT Only. I wanted a C8 until I found out there isn't enough luggage space for 2 people to take a road trip if one of them is Mrs. Ron. I'm too long legged and geriatric to climb out of a 911. My 2017 Camaro SS is a better car than any muscle car from the 60's Including some of the more notorious Pontiac GTO's, and I drove lots of them.

Someone is makin the Cobra again.
 

lashto

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The C6 Z06 was a pure car. MT Only. I wanted a C8 until I found out there isn't enough luggage space for 2 people to take a road trip if one of them is Mrs. Ron. I'm too long legged and geriatric to climb out of a 911. My 2017 Camaro SS is a better car than any muscle car from the 60's Including some of the more notorious Pontiac GTO's, and I drove lots of them.

Someone is makin the Cobra again.
sounds like your car knowledge and experience is also way above mine (same for audio). I do enjoy reading/learning about both audio and cars and have some theoretical & practical knowledge of both but nowhere close to your level ... especially when it comes to cars. I'm afraid my car-talk wouldn't be very useful/informative for you .. or anyone else.

And trying to get this thread back on track.
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/christortion_by_christian_budde might be worth a look. It's a VST plugin so it should work with most/all software players (e.g. Foobar2000 is ok). Not a tube-distorter per-se but allows you to customize the level and phase of harmonics 2-10 (IIRC) and you can config a tube-like distortion. Old/un-maintained code though, may or may not work properly on new OSes.

Described as a "tube preamp simulator" and has good reviews https://www.kvraudio.com/product/sga1566-by-shattered-glass-audio. And you can also check the "related" tab and/or search for "tube" on kvraudio. There seem to be lots of similar plugins and many are free or free-to-try.
 

valkeryie

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Some recording engineers use a 1:1 transformer in line with their gear to create a "tube" sound.

There is far more to a tube amp than output impedance. As an example a tube amp is primarily a voltage amplifier, while a solid state amp is effectively a current amplifier. The output impedance, as dictated by the output transformers, result in the power transfer tracking the impedance of the speaker load. Which as Levimax noted does cause the sound created to vary considerably.

Better? Worse? Who knows? Mostly depends on who is listening - your better may be my worse and vice-versa. I have two primary systems one driven by Pass amps, one by highly modified Dynaco ST-70 mono-blocs. Which one sounds better? The one I am listening to at the moment when asked. Both are wonderful to my old ears.
 

Severian

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I've played around with some VSTs to add a bit of second harmonic distortion and I do enjoy the sound, particularly with guitar-based music. Fattens and warms up certain tones. I would not want the distortion hardwired into my system and none of these VSTs have become a long-term listening preference.

That said, I was recently gifted a Bottlehead Crack kit and am really looking forward to the build and finding out how it sounds with my HD6XXs.

Well, I have completed the Bottlehead Crack and after several hours of listening... I have to say that this amplifier in combination with the HD6XX sounds divine. The noise floor is very audible. I can hear the distortion on many tones. I wouldn't call it high fidelity. But... there is definitely something a little magical about how rich and full it sounds compared to my Atom.
 
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