Trying to decide on DAC and Amp

[Draghmar]

Hi.
My 40h birthday are coming so I decide to buy myself something I always wanted: planar headphones (decided on Dekoni Blue by Fosex) and external soundcard for my PC. Because I'm noob in terms of DACs and Amps I started my search with asking Web for the best external soundcard for PC. This lead me to Shiit and their Hel 2. Looked great on paper. Then I've noticed that they have both DAC and Amp as a separate devices: Modi 3+ and Magni Heresy which looks even better on paper. This (unfortunately) made me wonder which one I should choose.
Currently I have Xonar DX but I know it doesn't have enough power to drive those planars. Also I do want external solution for the sake of having it. I'm not sure what will I loose because of Dolby support though...But I hope nothing important.
Looking at a way to give the edge for one of the Shiit devices I found this forum, with those highly analytical reviews. And with that I discovered that there are also devices in similar price range: JDS Labs Atom Headphone Amp and DAC.
My noobish eye said that JDS looks better...but the difference doesn't look as big as I'd like to (to make it easy to choose that is ).
So now my list of potential devices grew to:
- Shiit Hel 2 DAC/Amp.
- Shiit Magni Heresy Amp
- Shiit Modi 3+ DAC
- JDS Labs Atom Amp
- JDS Labs Atom DAC
And the clock is ticking...That's why I decided to ask you, people that far more experienced with all of this. Please give me the edge to hang from...

 

[kchap]

I'm biased, I own a Topping D10 balanced DAC. Look at the recently reviewed Topping E50 DAC and L50 HPA.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e50-review-balanced-dac.26219/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-l50-review-headphone-amp.26210/

 

[Draghmar]

Hm...ok....but not the price range I'm looking at here.

 

[VintageFlanker]

- Shiit Magni Heresy Amp
- Shiit Modi 3+ DAC
- JDS Labs Atom Amp
- JDS Labs Atom DAC

Short answer: just any. Each will perform equally great sonically. Go by your other needs: features, aesthetics, connectivity etc.

My noobish eye said that JDS looks better

Only if you prefer plastic over metal...

 

[charleski]

Archimago tested the Dekoni Blues recently and found them rather insensitive at 88dB/mW. So the Hel is probably not going to be able to drive them properly. The Heresy should be OK, but if you want to really go loud with them you'll need to change the cable to balanced and get something like the THX AAA 789 he mentions, or a Schiit Magnius.
[Edit] I messed up my sums. The Hel should be OK, actually, but the Heresy will give you a bit more margin. So either of those should be fine for power.

You don't really need to buy an accompanying DAC as well, your Xonar DX will be happy feeding signal into an outboard amp and its performance is good enough that it's very unlikely you'd hear any difference with an outboard DAC. You really just need more power to drive the headphones properly.

 

[kchap]

Hm...ok....but not the price range I'm looking at here.

I see what you mean. I had just assumed they would all be in the same price range.

 

[Draghmar]

Short answer: just any. Each will perform equally great sonically. Go by your other needs: features, aesthetics, connectivity etc.

Only if you prefer plastic over metal...

If I'll go only this route then answer would be quite easy - Shiit has better marketing on their website for my taste.
Hm...I do listen mostly rock and metal - will that count?

Archimago tested the Dekoni Blues recently and found them rather insensitive at 88dB/mW. So the Hel is probably not going to be able to drive them properly. The Heresy should be OK, but if you want to really go loud with them you'll need to change the cable to balanced and get something like the THX AAA 789 he mentions, or a Schiit Magnius.
[Edit] I messed up my sums. The Hel should be OK, actually, but the Heresy will give you a bit more margin. So either of those should be fine for power.

You don't really need to buy an accompanying DAC as well, your Xonar DX will be happy feeding signal into an outboard amp and its performance is good enough that it's very unlikely you'd hear any difference with an outboard DAC. You really just need more power to drive the headphones properly.

Thanks for the tip. Actually I didn't go deep with Dekoni Blue reviews. I read some, I had HiFiMAN once for few days from the similar price range (don't remember which one right now) but I didn't like them back then - without Amp sound was very similar as Superlux HD330 I have. I mean there was a difference but not enough to justify the price (also I'm not an audiophile [which means my hearing is not as good ]). And with Dekni Blue I like the look and the fact they have one cable sticking from cans instead of one from each can - I hate cables.

I know that Xonar DX is a DAC and a good one (that was the reason I bought it ) and I could simply buy some Amp. The reason I wanted external DAC and Amp was simple - at first I was looking at external sound cards, not DAC/Amp but something PC related. The fact I couldn't find anything interesting in this segment forced me to look elsewhere.
At that moment I was wondering about leaving Xonar in the chain but there are two things that are against that:
1. Removing it would free up PCIe slot, which would give me opportunity to move SSD adapter into that slot and make GPU up from x8 into x16 again.
2. I have Xonar for about 10 years now and I simply wanted something new and better - remember, birthday.

 

[Roland68]

Planar headphones (decided on Dekoni Blue by Fosex) and external soundcard for my PC.
- Shiit Hel 2 DAC/Amp.
- Shiit Magni Heresy Amp
- Shiit Modi 3+ DAC
- JDS Labs Atom Amp
- JDS Labs Atom DAC
And the clock is ticking...That's why I decided to ask you, people that far more experienced with all of this. Please give me the edge to hang from...

Hello, I can only tell you from my personal experience.
The Fostex T50RP can be brought to the level of the Dekoni Blue (I think it's optically great too) with the Dekoni ear pads and very simple mods, but also above.
In my opinion, both of them are topped by the Fostex T60RP. If you have enough budget, take a look.

Especially about the Fostex TxxRP, I liked the Magni 3+ best, followed by the Atom and Heresy.
However, I would currently buy the Sabaj A10h.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../sabaj-a10h-review-headphone-amplifier.25699/
Very well tested by Amirm, high performance and absolute channel alignment thanks to relay-based volume control.
Hifi-express offers it cheaply and you seem to be shipping from several locations. https://hifi-express.com/products/sabaj-a10h-desktop-headphone-amplifier

The Sabaj A10d DAC is above budget?
If you only need USB as an input for the DAC, I would also suggest Topping D10s and E30.
But Sabaj D5 is getting cheaper and cheaper. https://hifi-express.com/products/sabaj-d5-audio-dac-ess9038pro-heaphone-amplifier
ES9038Pro DAC chip, powerful SE and balanced headphone amplifier and preamp outputs. I had him for a long time and was very satisfied.
And if you ever buy a "bigger" headphone amplifier, it was still the cheapest ES9038Pro DAC.

 

[VintageFlanker]

If I'll go only this route then answer would be quite easy

It is way easier than you may think. Welcome to ASR!

I do listen mostly rock and metal - will that count?

Joke aside: Absolutely not. DAC/Amp better suited for Metal is not a thing. A good gear is good for any music.

 

[charleski]

2. I have Xonar for about 10 years now and I simply wanted something new and better - remember, birthday.

Haha, yes, I know

If you want another option, you could buy one of the high-performance dongles that are available now (like the E1DA), and use that as a DAC to feed a more powerful amp for the Dekoni Blues. Then you have the option of using the dongle for high-quality portable listening as well.

 

[Sharur]

Modi 3+ with a LED blocking sticker on the light and a Magni Heresy would be my choice.

 

[Draghmar]

Hello, I can only tell you from my personal experience.
The Fostex T50RP can be brought to the level of the Dekoni Blue (I think it's optically great too) with the Dekoni ear pads and very simple mods, but also above.
In my opinion, both of them are topped by the Fostex T60RP. If you have enough budget, take a look.

Especially about the Fostex TxxRP, I liked the Magni 3+ best, followed by the Atom and Heresy.
However, I would currently buy the Sabaj A10h.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../sabaj-a10h-review-headphone-amplifier.25699/
Very well tested by Amirm, high performance and absolute channel alignment thanks to relay-based volume control.
Hifi-express offers it cheaply and you seem to be shipping from several locations. https://hifi-express.com/products/sabaj-a10h-desktop-headphone-amplifier

The Sabaj A10d DAC is above budget?
If you only need USB as an input for the DAC, I would also suggest Topping D10s and E30.
But Sabaj D5 is getting cheaper and cheaper. https://hifi-express.com/products/sabaj-d5-audio-dac-ess9038pro-heaphone-amplifier
ES9038Pro DAC chip, powerful SE and balanced headphone amplifier and preamp outputs. I had him for a long time and was very satisfied.
And if you ever buy a "bigger" headphone amplifier, it was still the cheapest ES9038Pro DAC.

Please don't mess with my headphone choice. It's already a great of achievement of mine to have one option at the end instead of 2+, like I normally have. Yes, the Fostex T60RP looks great but it's way above my budget (Dekoni Blue is already a stretch here ).

Sabaj A10d looks nice and the price is similar to Shiit devices looking at the shop you've linked.
Sabaj D5 is a combo device, which is nice, with interesting specs. The price is a bit of stretch but what worries me is the power. I mean it looks underpowered when paired against both Shiit and JDS Atom devices. Or am I wrong here?
If you had D5 why did you decide to change it?

Haha, yes, I know

If you want another option, you could buy one of the high-performance dongles that are available now (like the E1DA), and use that as a DAC to feed a more powerful amp for the Dekoni Blues. Then you have the option of using the dongle for high-quality portable listening as well.

Nah, I'll stick with bigger ones - the idea is to have one or two boxes with a knob on my desk.

Modi 3+ with a LED blocking sticker on the light and a Magni Heresy would be my choice.

Thanks for suggestion. Will take it into account. I did mods like that on my devices but with black adhesive tape - it did wonders.

 

[Roland68]

Sabaj D5 is a combo device, which is nice, with interesting specs. The price is a bit of stretch but what worries me is the power. I mean it looks underpowered when paired against both Shiit and JDS Atom devices. Or am I wrong here?
If you had D5 why did you decide to change it?

It's actually the cheapest device on the market with the ES9038Pro and the original price of $ 500-600 was pretty good. But of course that is always a question of your personal point of view.
I own several devices, including DIY and tuning. At some point (almost) every device has to go, that says nothing about the device for me. Because of its qualities, possibilities and because of the all-round package, I should have kept it.

When it comes to power, the Atom loses heavily against Schit Magni 3+ / Heresy, like most of the others, not only in the price range.
With the Magni 3+ I never had to switch to high gain, with the Atom I did.

But if you already have a DAC, then you can start with a Schit Magni 3+ / Heresy and wait for a good offer for a DAC. A very comfortable position.

 

[Raindog123]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sy-channel-imbalance.24786/page-2#post-865294

 

[Draghmar]

It's actually the cheapest device on the market with the ES9038Pro and the original price of $ 500-600 was pretty good. But of course that is always a question of your personal point of view.
I own several devices, including DIY and tuning. At some point (almost) every device has to go, that says nothing about the device for me. Because of its qualities, possibilities and because of the all-round package, I should have kept it.

When it comes to power, the Atom loses heavily against Schit Magni 3+ / Heresy, like most of the others, not only in the price range.
With the Magni 3+ I never had to switch to high gain, with the Atom I did.

But if you already have a DAC, then you can start with a Schit Magni 3+ / Heresy and wait for a good offer for a DAC. A very comfortable position.

Yeah, but ES9038Pro tells me absolutely nothing Why is it so good? Will the D5 be enough for Dekoni Blue without having to turn the knob to the max?

Thanks for clarifications.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sy-channel-imbalance.24786/page-2#post-865294

Simple and concrete answer. I like it.

 

[Roland68]

Yeah, but ES9038Pro tells me absolutely nothing Why is it so good? Will the D5 be enough for Dekoni Blue without having to turn the knob to the max?

Unfortunately, nobody can tell you whether the D5 with the Dekoni Blue is loud enough for you. It was enough for me for the Fostex T50RP.
As I said, Schit Magni 3+ / Heresy have a lot more power and are perhaps the better choice with one of the listed DACs.

The ES9038Pro is one of the two TOP DAC chips on the market, but I don't think you would hear a big difference to the listed DACs.

 

[Draghmar]

Unfortunately, nobody can tell you whether the D5 with the Dekoni Blue is loud enough for you. It was enough for me for the Fostex T50RP.
As I said, Schit Magni 3+ / Heresy have a lot more power and are perhaps the better choice with one of the listed DACs.

The ES9038Pro is one of the two TOP DAC chips on the market, but I don't think you would hear a big difference to the listed DACs.

Thanks for your suggestions.
I do like the D5 but I also think I won't hear the difference. For me the more pleasing part is combo device + balanced output - it's something I'd try if I'd have option but not something I'm looking for especially.

 

[Koeitje]

The DAC chip used doesn't matter, all that matters is what the actual output is. The DAC chip is part of that, but its only a fraction of the design. You can't say "it uses xxxx so its better than yyyy".

 

[BillyKueek]

My first instinctive response is get the iFi Zen DAC Amp V2, it retails for US145 here. It’s a DAC with amp and can drive many headphones plus a power match button for different headphones and the TrueBass button activates sounds at a different level. Just plug in usb from your OC, laptop or Mac and it’s really to go. It is not portable but can be brought around, I have connected it to my iphone too. Where do you stream music from?

 

[Draghmar]

My first instinctive response is get the iFi Zen DAC Amp V2, it retails for US145 here. It’s a DAC with amp and can drive many headphones plus a power match button for different headphones and the TrueBass button activates sounds at a different level. Just plug in usb from your OC, laptop or Mac and it’s really to go. It is not portable but can be brought around, I have connected it to my iphone too. Where do you stream music from?

Looks interesting. I don't care about portability.
My music comes from three main sources: Spotify, few CDs ripped to FLAC and a couple of BDs concerts.
But looking at amirm's review it doesn't looks as good as other options...But I'm not sure if the review was for the V2 model and how much of difference it actually makes.