Trying out way too many headphones to find a companion to my HD600

[IsaacOscar]

Buying used rules. And it makes me feel like less of a filthy overconsumer when I get hyperfocused on finding THE BEST like I am right now.

Enjoy the HD600! I'd love a comparison between all three if you have the time.

Sure! The HD560s sucks in soundstage though, so I didn't mention it before.

 

[Berwhale]

Buying used rules. And it makes me feel like less of a filthy overconsumer when I get hyperfocused on finding THE BEST like I am right now.

Enjoy the HD600! I'd love a comparison between all three if you have the time.

There are lots of comparison between between the HD550 and various other Sennheiser headphones on Solderdude's website...

HD550

back to Sennheiserback to measurementshome published: July-11-2025 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons flat’ sharp peaks and …

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

Note that these are graphs based on 'flat plate' measurements, they are not directly comparable to Amir's (or other peoples) measurements taken with a Head And Torso Simulator (HATS).

Also, buying used is good, but be aware that the age of pads can impact the frequency response considerably, and new pads might not sound the same as the original pads when they were new.

This is particularly true for the HD6XX... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-sennheiser-pads-measured.24845/

 

[Ype]

Update: I don't have any measurement equipment on hand, but the driver volume of the HE400se seems to be off by about 3 dB at 1 KHz according to my ears. I amended my EQ profile and reduced the preamp gain of the left channel by 3 dB. Now the stereo imaging is excellent and music sounds like it should. I may even enjoy the EQ'd sound more than the Edition XS (also with EQ). It has a smoother treble response so there's fewer peaks to tone down. I sure as heck enjoy the comfort more.

Still not sure about the weight for long-term use, but the HE400se is back in the running now. It's really good. So good it's kind of screwing with my plan to reduce this collection to only two open-back headphones. I paid just 50 € incl. shipping for my pair so there isn't a lot of money tied up in it. Gotta give it some time, I guess. Maybe it won't see any use in practice.


I've spent a decent amount time with the SR60 and SR80 and filed them under "not for me", but it may be because I only heard their stock sound. I'm not opposed to on-ear designs and it might be fun to experiment with the myriad mods, especially the ones meant to make them more comfortable. But I don't think their stock bass response is that promising for the immersive Harman bass I'm after. AutoEQ profiles boost the sub bass by around 12 dB to reach Harman levels. Maybe they can take that, but I'm doubtful.

I think a friend of mine has an SR60e. I'll at least give it a try. Thanks!

Also, please, don't discount Audio-Technica. Maybe you've only heard the more ubiquitous closed-backs. The R series is amazing.


I don't have any heavy hitter amplification. Most of my desk listening time is spent running off the MOTU M2's headphone out. It's a bit weedy in terms of power, but it seems powerful enough for the headphones I've had so far. Even with ample negative preamp gain I usually end up at around 1 o'clock for my less sensitive phones. Sometimes I also use the FiiO KA11 dongle as a DAC/amp with my PC. That thing is considerably more powerful and has measured exceptionally well in Amir's review on this site. I don't notice any difference that couldn't be attributed to suboptimal level matching. Not with the planars, not with the HD600, not with the K702. Both devices deliver enough clean gain for my needs and their differing noise levels, filter roll-offs etc. are beyond my hearing ability. Could it be different output impedances you're hearing? What's your unamplified source?

I felt the K702 was okay, but the treble is a little peaky for me. As stated above, I had to do some surgical cuts at around 5,6 KHz, just below 8 KHz and around 12 KHz to get the treble under control and it still sounds a little grainy to me sometimes. Getting the bass and mids to a good place was really easy, though. Nicely spacious presentation, too. Easy to enjoy if the treble aligns with your hearing and preferences.


Added to the list, with the caveat that it might also be too similar to the HD600, like the HD550 mentioned above. I never thought of the 500 series as "fun", though they present as much more spacious than the 600 series. I'll get my hands on either and just try to make them fun, I guess. They are very comfortable for me!


I don't know if an estat would fit the role as well as a dynamic driver or planar headphone. This is about sitting at my desk, having both headphones on hand and switching one for the other when I want to play games or watch a movie for a while. Not exactly the best use case for an estat if I don't want to keep it powered on all the time.

The Shure graphs very well, though. Nicely extended bass response. Added to the list, thanks!

Sadly the HE400se has a lot of quality issues in my experience, they sound excellent to me with EQ though.
Keep in mind that I use them with crossfeed for stereo listening or 7.1 surround downmixed with HeSuVi, both with EQ.

As for other headphones, I tried the Sennheiser HD600 a long time ago and compared them to a lot of headphones and I remember it being the only headphone on hand that really came alive with just tone controls and a bass shelf filter.
Most other headphones sounded completely wrong and broken to me, at any price, so I gave up on buying another set and bought better studio monitors for at home and in-ears for my travels.

These days, with IEMs being as good as they are, I would definitely look at those if I wanted to add something to my collections.
No headphone or IEM will give me the same experience as my speakers though.

The only way to get closer to such an experience with what you have is with sound processing, not better headphones.

 

[IsaacOscar]

There are lots of comparison between between the HD550 and various other Sennheiser headphones on Solderdude's website...

HD550

back to Sennheiserback to measurementshome published: July-11-2025 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons flat’ sharp peaks and …

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

Here's also a useful comment he made on a related thread:

Help finding right Sennheiser Headphone

Hi, I‘m somehow new or better back to the game. After several years of missing out on listening to music, I now found myself back enjoying it. Currently I own my good old ATH M50x und AirPods Pro 1. Gen. I like them both but due to Tinnitus (caused by light hearing loss on my right ear) , Open...

www.audiosciencereview.com

TLDR: he says the HD550 sound better compared to the HD600 and some other Sennheiser's.

Maybe @solderdude can give some specific advice with regards to soundstage and bass?

Note that these are graphs based on 'flat plate' measurements, they are not directly comparable to Amir's (or other peoples) measurements taken with a Head And Torso Simulator (HATS).

Yeah, they look nothing like other graphs I find on squig.link, so I have no idea how to interpret them.

 

[FTB]

Headphones are good if they measure good : https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets/

 

[IsaacOscar]

Headphones are good if they measure good : https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets/

The question was not what is "good" (as the HD600 are apparently very good), but what is good and has more bass and soundstage.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to gauge soundstage from a frequency response grapgh
(from my personal experience, EQing the area between 150hz and 1.6kHz to roughly slope straight down by 3dB seems to improve it for me? In particular making the area slightly before 1.6kHz higher does definitely decrease the soundstage for me; of course it also makes sound sounds nicer as well, so more soundstage does seem to come at a cost)

 

[voltse]

Let me add a different approach: You describe SHP9500 as "The soundstage and imaging are both good in a natural, non-exaggerated way, which means positional accuracy is on point. Stock, they are bass-shy and the treble is kind of grainy.". I agree on all points. Some time ago I ordered a pair of SHP9500 from Aliexpress on sale for 35€. In combination with velours earpads for 5€ they change their tonal character quite a lot. The treble is massively tamed and the bass enhanced. For me it was a bit too bassy then, but maybe you like it. It's very different from HD600, has decent soundstage and costs next to nothing when on sale.

 

[Robin L]

My best headphones, as of now, are the Drop 6XX, essentially the Sennheiser HD 650. Those should sound like the 600s but "fatter" and "thicker" in the upper bass/lower midrange. I don't know if you ever use IEMs, but I'm now using the 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM. If you're looking for more/deeper bass, these are so much better than the 6XXs it is to laugh. I've never heard convincing soundstaging with headphones/IEMs, but the Zero 2s are so linear and open in the frequencies that provide soundstage cues (thanks to incredibly low levels of distortion) that there's a bit more of the illusion than with most headphones and IEMs. Anyway, for $25, what do you have to lose?

7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM Review

This is a review, listening tests, EQ and detailed measurements of the 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM. It was kindly donated to me by a member and costs US $24.99. The cable is soft and longer than typical which I like. They take fair amount of effort to push it but then they make a reassuring...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Berwhale]

Yeah, they look nothing like other graphs I find on squig.link, so I have no idea how to interpret them.

how to interpret graphs

home back to articles Published: Mar-22-2013, updated: Mar-18-2017 How to ‘read’ graphs This topic had become rather long so it is split into several pages. Frequency response understan…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

 

[bargainguy]

With the K702s, my typical setup is desktop computer reading FLACs into a Topping D30 DAC and A30 headphone amp.

I have a variety of DAPs - A&K AK70 mk II, Ruizu A58, Oilsky A22, and various ipods - that I don't use with the K702's unamplified because they all sound the same, which is, a bit thin.

Now if I take any of those sources and feed it through the A30, different story. They all sound better with more juice.

My take is that the K702s are like power hungry speakers. They don't open up until sufficient power is applied.

Output impedance mismatch: If I were really running into this, then all my DAP sources would have to be mismatched and causing frequency deviation, and wouldn't sound any better with amplification. I don't think that's my case, but who knows.

 

[inselwissen]

There are lots of comparison between between the HD550 and various other Sennheiser headphones on Solderdude's website...

HD550

back to Sennheiserback to measurementshome published: July-11-2025 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons flat’ sharp peaks and …

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

Note that these are graphs based on 'flat plate' measurements, they are not directly comparable to Amir's (or other peoples) measurements taken with a Head And Torso Simulator (HATS).

Also, buying used is good, but be aware that the age of pads can impact the frequency response considerably, and new pads might not sound the same as the original pads when they were new.

This is particularly true for the HD6XX... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-sennheiser-pads-measured.24845/

Thanks. I already perused solderdudes website, but it's always nice to have multiple opinions.

Pads make a big difference with the HD600. It's not just the different suppliers, the pads lose treble as they age. I just put new ones on my HD600, that's the third pair that's been on there. The first time I switched out the pads I did some A/B comparisons and tried to match the old pads to the new ones with EQ. The biggest difference I could find is that old pads lose some mid treble. Since then, I have had a peak filter set up at around 8 KHz that boosts further and further as the pads age. It went from +4 dB before the last swap to +1 dB with fresh pads. That is not a small difference! The bass seems less impacted by pad age. If it's the same type of pad, that is.

That said, if you EQ, it's a wash either way. I only replace the pads because I like the plusher feeling of the fresh foam. Old HD6XX pads feel kind of loose on-ear. Like a bean bag chair with too little filling. You can also hear the material crumple more clearly while the pads conform to your head, which can get distracting.

Sadly the HE400se has a lot of quality issues in my experience, they sound excellent to me with EQ though.
Keep in mind that I use them with crossfeed for stereo listening or 7.1 surround downmixed with HeSuVi, both with EQ.

As for other headphones, I tried the Sennheiser HD600 a long time ago when and compared them to a lot of headphones and I remember it being the only headphone on hand that really came alive with just tone controls and a bass shelf filter.
Most other headphones sounded completely wrong and broken to me, at any price, so I gave up on buying another set and bought better studio monitors for at home and in-ears for my travels.

These days, with IEMs being as good as they are, I would definitely look at those if I wanted to add something to my collections.
No headphone or IEM will give me the same experience as my speakers though.

Thee only way to get closer to such an experience with what you have is with sound processing, not better headphones.

To be fair, I expected much worse build quality from the HE400se after reading a few horror stories on forums, but they seem fairly well put together. The driver matching issue is unfortunate, though. After correcting the L/R levels, I can imagine them being excellent for surround sound.

The HD600 is that good, you're right. It's also fair to be more into speakers for home use. I have a decent living room speaker setup, but I prefer using headphones for immersion.

I own a few IEMs and while they sound great and do "natural plus sub-bass" better than any of my headphones, I've never had much luck tricking my brain into perceiving them as spacious. I think I need open-back headphones for that.

Headphones are good if they measure good : https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets/

Not if you know your way around EQ. Then the frequency response measurement takes a backseat to comfort/mechanical design, evenness of treble response and bass potential (meaning stock bass amount and distortion characteristics down low). I think "how well does this match the curve" type measurements severely simplify a very personal set of interactions between headphone and human. I've tried oratory profiles with match ratings beyond 100 % that I found unlistenable, be it because of unit variance, my own HRTF/PRTF or the way he'll sometimes push the bass further than the driver will handle. To say nothing of my own taste in sound.

Don't get me wrong. I think oratory has done immeasurable good for this community and as I've said in my OP, I use one of his profiles with my ATH-R50x and it's a stone-cold banger, but two numbers and a few curves can't possibly encompass everything there is to know and experience before passing judgment on a pair of headphones.

The question was not what is "good" (as the HD600 are apparently very good), but what is good and has more bass and soundstage.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to gauge soundstage from a frequency response grapgh
(from my personal experience, EQing the area between 150hz and 1.6kHz to roughly slope straight down by 3dB seems to improve it for me? In particular making the area slightly before 1.6kHz higher does definitely decrease the soundstage for me; of course it also makes sound sounds nicer as well, so more soundstage does seem to come at a cost)

See also the headphones.com piece I've linked in an above post. Listener thinks that both a scoop between 1 and 5 kHz (ala HiFiMAN) and a scoop in the mid bass/lower midrange (ala Harman) can evoke a sense of space at the cost of timbre. Which might be why the HD600 sounds so closed in. It's got a strong mid bass, an even mid range and a little spice in the ear gain region from 3-5 kHz. But that's also why it sounds so timbrally accurate. Can't have both!

Let me add a different approach: You describe SHP9500 as "The soundstage and imaging are both good in a natural, non-exaggerated way, which means positional accuracy is on point. Stock, they are bass-shy and the treble is kind of grainy.". I agree on all points. Some time ago I ordered a pair of SHP9500 from Aliexpress on sale for 35€. In combination with velours earpads for 5€ they change their tonal character quite a lot. The treble is massively tamed and the bass enhanced. For me it was a bit too bassy then, but maybe you like it. It's very different from HD600, has decent soundstage and costs next to nothing when on sale.

I already EQ these to taste, so a pad swap would just be about ergonomics for me. Even with EQ, I can't get better bass out of them than the HD600 and I prefer the ATH-R50x to the SHP9500 by a pretty wide margin. I've already put mine up for sale. But man, 35 € on Aliexpress is a screaming deal for these. You should try using EQ with them. There is a peak around 5,5 kHz on my head that's the main offender when it comes to the grainy impression. Taming that by 4-5 dB with a high Q makes them twice as good. Seriously.

My best headphones, as of now, are the Drop 6XX, essentially the Sennheiser HD 650. Those should sound like the 600s but "fatter" and "thicker" in the upper bass/lower midrange. I don't know if you ever use IEMs, but I'm now using the 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM. If you're looking for more/deeper bass, these are so much better than the 6XXs it is to laugh. I've never heard convincing soundstaging with headphones/IEMs, but the Zero 2s are so linear and open in the frequencies that provide soundstage cues (thanks to incredibly low levels of distortion) that there's a bit more of the illusion than with most headphones and IEMs. Anyway, for $25, what do you have to lose?

7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM Review

This is a review, listening tests, EQ and detailed measurements of the 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM. It was kindly donated to me by a member and costs US $24.99. The cable is soft and longer than typical which I like. They take fair amount of effort to push it but then they make a reassuring...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The HD600/6XX/650 are already so close to one another that I see no reason to get a 6XX or 650. The minor differences between these three models completely disappear when you use EQ. Also, I'm already cutting a little mid bass in my HD600 and I boost the frequencies below with a bass shelf. I don't need the extra mid bass the HD650 offers, it's more sub bass I'm after. And, to reiterate: I'm not looking for a "better HD600", my mission is to find something that complements it.

Already own the Zero:2, it's my IEM for when I'm at the office. I wouldn't say that they are "better" than the HD600 but I agree that they are amazing. Natural, smooth, a great listen. But as stated above, zero soundstage to my ears/brain. Also, while I'm not one of those people who can't stand having stuff in their ears, it isn't something I'm actively seeking out when I just want to sit back and relax.

 

[majingotan]

I don't understand why you're getting so worked up about this. You quoted me explicitly stating what I wanted and that I got very close with the ATH-R50x. Genuinely wondering what's hard to understand about my query here. I've already arrived at a workable solution, just curious what other headphones I might have overlooked. I like trying things, I buy used, I sell the stuff for what I paid for it, it's fun and it costs me nothing but a little bit of my time.

Aside from our disagreement about soundstage, what's so controversial here? Your suggestions are sound and appreciated. Hadn't thought of the DT770, but that might also be a good choice (with EQ). Not a fan of Beyerdynamic treble, but the R50x is plenty bright and some cuts up in the mid treble are really all it needs. We don't have to have any forum beef about this.

I don't agree that not sounding like an HD600 is an immediate disqualification. People like all sorts of sound signatures that are not dead-on neutral. I myself perceive Harman Over Ear (especially 2013/2018) as a bit lean in the mid bass and just a touch shouty in the upper mids while others feel it's neutral. I'm much more of a tilted DF guy when it comes to what I hear as "natural", but I can appreciate Harman OE for certain things. The transition from bass to midrange sounds a little wonky to me, but it leads to punchy, tight bass, for example. As much as we like our target curves on here, let's not kid ourselves that there's one true solution for every set of ears, every taste and every scenario.

Picture "tonal neutrality" as a spectrum from "neutral and accurate" to "exciting". The HD600 is on one end, especially the way I have it equalized. To my ears, it sounds completely natural and I love that about it. It will probably stay my #1 headphone and get the vast majority of my music listening time. But it's a bit boring for playing videogames, watching movies and certain tracks/genres where I might want a bit more coloration and excitement. These colorations are also where much of the impression of spaciousness comes from. We agree on that, right?

And you're right. I could solve that "problem" via EQ. I could add more bass, I could dip the upper mids more, I could extend the treble further to add that sense of excitement, but in my experience, there's always a trade-off between fun and neutrality, between space and timbre. And I don't like doing that to the HD600. I've tried adding all that stuff, equalizing the HD600 to Harman OE, trying various versions of a HiFiMAN-like 1,5 KHz dip and my impression is always that it's not meant to do that. You always lose some of the magic.

So instead of twisting the HD600 in knots, I'm looking for a second pair of headphones that is further away from the "neutral and accurate" end of the neutrality spectrum than the HD600 is. Not all the way at the "exciting" end, I can't stand a sharp V-shaped sound signature or a bassy, warm mess. Just a little more colored, a little more adapt at Harman bass, a little more extended in the treble. Bonus points if its mechanical design tricks my brain into a feeling of spaciousness. I know it's a psychoacoustic effect, but its affecting me nonetheless. Science hasn't yet discovered a way of listening to a pair of headphones without wearing it on your head.

I think we might have a fundamental ideological mismatch here. You think that anything deviating from "neutral for the person's ears" is inherently worse. And I don't even disagree for the most part. But once you have the neutral baseline at your disposal, why not add something more colored that's more fun for certain applications?

IMHO, you'd have to go closed back headphones for that movie bass with spatial audio experience. Lots of fun sounding gaming headphones out there that you'll prefer more than the HD600 when it comes to movie and gaming experience IMHO, but of course HD600 reigns supreme on the music listening

I've made peace with the fact that the mythical "HD600 with bass and soundstage" does not exist.

IMHO, you haven't demoed enough headphones to claim this. You should go to audio shows like Head-fi CanJam to truly find out what headphones suits your comfort and sonic preferences.

Me personally I have a fun and neutral headphone that fits my HRTF: ZMF Bokeh Open for fun and Hifiman Susvara OG for neutral.

 

[Robin L]

Already have own the Zero:2, it's my IEM for when I'm at the office. I wouldn't say that they are "better" than the HD600 but I agree that they are amazing. Natural, smooth, a great listen. But as stated above, zero soundstage to my ears/brain. Also, while I'm not one of those people who can't stand having stuff in their ears, it isn't something I'm actively seeking out when I just want to sit back and relax.

Obviously personal preference. I get up early in the morning, don't want to wake up the wife. That's the time I need to use audio headgear and the Zero 2 IEMs serve that purpose well. But I can understand not wanting something sticking in one's ear canal. If the Zero 2s didn't sound so good, I'd still be using the 6XXs.

 

[inselwissen]

IMHO, you'd have to go closed back headphones for that movie bass with spatial audio experience. Lots of fun sounding gaming headphones out there that you'll prefer more than the HD600 when it comes to movie and gaming experience IMHO, but of course HD600 reigns supreme on the music listening

It's interesting you mention closed-backs here. I agree about the bass, though I'd argue there's more than a few open-back headphones that do big bass well out of the box and/or extend well enough to get that rumble going with a bit of EQ. But spatial audio? What closed-back headphones do you think do that well?

IMHO, you haven't demoed enough headphones to claim this. You should go to audio shows like Head-fi CanJam to truly find out what headphones suits your comfort and sonic preferences.

Me personally I have a fun and neutral headphone that fits my HRTF: ZMF Bokeh Open for fun and Hifiman Susvara OG for neutral.

No IMHO necessary, that's an accurate assessment. I'm Mid-Fi all the way. The most expensive headphones I've demoed are a few from the Audeze LCD series and the HD800s. Maybe I should have added "for reasonable money" to that statement. I'm not looking to spend four figures on a headphone.

 

[IsaacOscar]

Buying used rules. And it makes me feel like less of a filthy overconsumer when I get hyperfocused on finding THE BEST like I am right now.

Enjoy the HD600! I'd love a comparison between all three if you have the time.

So I got them.
TLDR: the HD 600 sounds almost identical to the HD 550, but is more comfortable. So I honestly don't know what your problem with them is (other than them not being that bassy).

It took a lot of time and effort to detect any difference in sound between the HD 600 and HD 550 (other than volume, which I tried to level match for testing, but probably got it slightly wrong). But the HD 550 is ever so slightly more bassy, and I think less open/soundstagey.

Despite my fears, my FiiO Tiny A (which I use on my phone) actually drives the HD 600 louder than the HD 550, despite the much higher impedence.
Moreover, I was worried the previous owner might've stretched the headband too much if they had a big head, but it was actually too tight, so I had to manually stretch them out (just like I needed to do when my HD 550 was brand new).

The HD 600 however is more comfortable than the HD 550 (especially the deep soft pads). They're even comfortable enough for me to lie on my side with (of course this sounds horrible).

It's also much easier to change the cable on the HD 550, and it's less tricky to position so that you don't feel the cable.

Obviously not a concern for me, but the HD 600 leaks more sound to the outside world: in particular, you can here the sound more clearly as the bass/mids are less muted. In contrast, the HD 550 muffles outside sounds less.

EQ Profiles​

Since the two sound almost the same, my EQ profiles I made for the HD 550 also work on the HD 600, and vice versa.
Here are two EQ profiles to try:

Spoiler: Soundstage EQ

Preamp: -3.4 dB
Filter 1: ON PK  Fc   20 Hz Gain -7.6 dB Q 0.30
Filter 2: ON LSC Fc  250 Hz Gain  4.3 dB Q 0.60
Filter 3: ON PK  Fc 1500 Hz Gain -4.4 dB Q 1.2
Filter 4: ON PK  Fc 4100 Hz Gain  3.6 dB Q 4.1
Filter 5: ON PK  Fc 5100 Hz Gain -2.4 dB Q 3.6
Filter 6: ON PK  Fc 6800 Hz Gain  2.7 dB Q 1.5
Filter 7: ON PK  Fc 8300 Hz Gain -2.3 dB Q 8.0

Spoiler: Current EQ

Preamp: -3.6 dB
Filter 1: ON PK  Fc   20 Hz Gain -7.6 dB Q 0.30
Filter 2: ON LSC Fc  250 Hz Gain  4.3 dB Q 0.60
Filter 3: ON PK  Fc 3300 Hz Gain -1.6 dB Q 3.2
Filter 4: ON PK  Fc 4300 Hz Gain  2.2 dB Q 5.0
Filter 5: ON PK  Fc 5300 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 4.0
Filter 6: ON PK  Fc 6700 Hz Gain  3.8 dB Q 3.9

Both increase the bass (whilst decreasing the very low bass, as I find those sounds more annoying and distracting). If you want more bass you can increase the shelf filter (the second peak in the graph), but I suggest adjusting the first peak so that the 20Hz level stays the same.
Both profiles also smooth out the highs by trying to align the 3–8kHz section to the Harman Over-Ear 2018 (I didn't bother with stuff >8kHZ, as filters in this range don't seem to make much audible difference to me, although given ideal conditions, I can hear ≤17kHz).

The "Soundstage" one I made bass off of HD 550 measurements. The 1.5kHZ negative peak is the important ones for increasing the soundstage, however it does drastically reduce certain details in music, including some female vocals. So I stopped using this one.

The "Current" profile keeps the bass changes from "Soundstage" and changes the highs to be based of HD 600 measurements. I find this improves female vocals slightly by making them a bit lower in pitch, and is the profile I'm currently using.

With the second profile, I haven't got anything to complain about, and if there is a better sounding profile + headphone pair out there, I haven't tried it (which isn't saying much, as I haven't owned/tried many headphones).

HD 560s​

As for the HD 560s, I would say it's very slightly more comfortable than the HD 550 as it has headband padding similar to the HD 600.
Sound wise, they're only ok: they lack openness/soundstage, and feel a bit flat around the mids/bads. And I was unable to fix these issues with EQ. Unless you want more boring/clinical sound, or your trying to save money, don't get them.

 

[inselwissen]

So I got them.
TLDR: the HD 600 sounds almost identical to the HD 550, but is more comfortable. So I honestly don't know what your problem with them is (other than them not being that bassy).

Thanks for the update! Then the HD550 is off the list. The lack of sub-bass is indeed my main problem. I want that effortless rumble for movies and gaming.

I also think deeper bass extension extends the perception of soundstage for me. Makes it wider. But, as I've said in this thread, both the R50x and HE400se extend much better than the HD600 and work well for me as a second headphone. See this Squig:

I've tried your current EQ preset for the HD600 and to my ears, it presents as a little stuffy in the mid bass and bright up top. The 6,7 kHz boost isn't great for my ears, but that's probably down to HRTF more than taste.

Can't get on with the bass response, though. Starting the slope at 250 means you boost a lot of the frequencies where I find the HD600 is already sufficient, if not a tad mid bass heavy. It ends up reading a little muddy and messy, to be honest. Lower-order harmonics jump out too much with certain notes, especially with bass guitar. But I get what you are after and I understand why you don't understand my problem. We seem to have very different tastes when it comes to bass. Which is completely fine! You are after warmth, while I'm after balance and extension. Both valid.

Here's my preset for comparison:

Preamp: -4.5 dB
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 85 Hz Gain 4 dB Q 0.7
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 110 Hz Gain -1.1 dB Q 1.2
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 660 Hz Gain 1.1 dB Q 2
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1300 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 2
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2200 Hz Gain 2.3 dB Q 3
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 3300 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 5
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 5200 Hz Gain -2.4 dB Q 4.9

 

[IsaacOscar]

Here's my preset for comparison:

Preamp: -4.5 dB
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 85 Hz Gain 4 dB Q 0.7
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 110 Hz Gain -1.1 dB Q 1.2
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 660 Hz Gain 1.1 dB Q 2
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1300 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 2
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2200 Hz Gain 2.3 dB Q 3
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 3300 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 5
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 5200 Hz Gain -2.4 dB Q 4.9

OMG, that low shelf makes it feel like someone is punching my head... If thats the kind of sound you like, I'd suggest trying the HD 599 SE, it's like that but worse (you get the punching in all the music I tried with it, whereas your EQ only does it for some tracks).
I can't recall what the soundstage of the HD 599 SE was like, as the punching was distracting me too much to enjoy anything I was listening to.

(As for the other parts of your EQ it's slightly worse than no EQ: it's lowering the volume of certain parts of music, but without making anything sound better, although I guess it does increase the soundstage/openess a bit)

 

[inselwissen]

OMG, that low shelf makes it feel like someone is punching my head... If thats the kind of sound you like, I'd suggest trying the HD 599 SE, it's like that but worse (you get the punching in all the music I tried with it, whereas your EQ only does it for some tracks).
I can't recall what the soundstage of the HD 599 SE was like, as the punching was distracting me too much to enjoy anything I was listening to.

(As for the other parts of your EQ it's slightly worse than no EQ: it's lowering the volume of certain parts of music, but without making anything sound better, although I guess it does increase the soundstage/openess a bit)

It's always fun to compare that sort of stuff. Every track I've listened to with your EQ preset sounded like it was mixed by the bassist or bass synth player - and they're not a team player. Like there was too much of a spotlight on the lower register instruments. To my ears, it actually registered much bassier than my profile, which I perceive as quite balanced. With my preset, I tried to extend the bass as much as possible without throwing off that balance. Do you always remove that much sub-bass?

Soundstage wasn't actually any consideration with this profile. That's why I use two different headphones. My HD600 profile is all about timbre and natural reproduction of sound. The impression of openness might stem from the slight tuck at 110 Hz combined with the bass shelf below that, which is kind of Harman-ish (though not nearly as extreme as that dip is with OE 2018) and the cut at 1.3 kHz.

Everything above the bass region more or less conforms to the KEMAR curve for GRAS measurement rigs, which lead to better results to my ears than trying various DF curves for B&K 5128 measurements. I futzed around with the bands a little, but the stock HD600 FR is incredibly close to these sorts of curves anyway.

What's "sounding better" in that context? I think all these tiny corrections make sense the way I hear them. The 660 Hz boost lends warmth where the HD600 is just the slightest bit cold in the midrange. You can hear that effect on the timbre of instruments like cellos or with electric guitars played in the first positions.

The cut at 1,3 kHz isn't there for soundstage reasons, it's to slightly recess vocals, which I feel are a little too brash and in your face in that range, while the boost at 2.2 kHz pushes them forward again in a spot where the effect is less "dryness" and more "clarity". These two filters make the ear gain rise feel more smooth, which means you don't have to cut as much in the region where many people find the HD600 a little shouty. I just do a pretty surgical (q5) 1.3 dB cut at 3.3 kHz, which I feel is enough to take the edge off without messing with the sound too much.

Then there's the slight peak at 5,2 kHz. I feel that this is the only real misstep in the HD600's midrange and treble presentation. A peak in that regions registers as "grainy" to me and the HD600 is ever-so-slightly grainy here. You can hear it best with hi-hats and certain percussion instruments. A 2.4 dB cut with a high Q takes care of that easily.

All in all, our EQ presets aren't really that different. You also cut around 3.3 kHz and I bet that 5.3 kHz cut is similarly correcting for the slight grainyness I hear in the stock presentation. I'd wager the boosts at 4.3 kHz and 6.7 kHz are needed for you because there are dips in your HRTF that I don't share.

If you're up for it, try integrating the 1.3 kHz and 2.2 kHz filters into your own profile. Maybe also try the slight boost at 660 Hz, though that might already be happening with that broad 250 Hz boost you're doing.

Bonus: I also use a second EQ profile that's peak filters only, which, although boosted at 21 Hz, rumbles a bit less. Some days, it sounds better and clearer to me, some days, I miss the increased lower mid bass of the bass shelf preset. Here's that one with your treble boosts included. How's that?

Spoiler: Peak filter preset + HRTF corrections

Preamp: -4.5 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 21 Hz Gain 4 dB Q 0.8
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 110 Hz Gain -1.1 dB Q 1.2
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 660 Hz Gain 1.1 dB Q 2
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1300 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 2
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2200 Hz Gain 2.3 dB Q 3
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 3300 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 5
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 4300 Hz Gain 2.2 dB Q 5.0
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 5200 Hz Gain -2.4 dB Q 4.9
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 6700 Hz Gain 3.8 dB Q 3.9

 

[Bren Derlin]

soundstage in headphones is a myth, you just need to eq the hd600 to your own preferences for your own head, meaning use a sine sweep or something and find out nasty resonances which come due to HRTF and turn em down. HD600 has sufficient loudness capabilities for a normal person, you can put in a bass boost to your liking. Boosted treble, lack of bass and a dipped upper midrange creates a sense of distance in important harmonics (mids) and boosts/brings more attention to the reverb parts, boosting soundstage.

Soundstage in headphones and iems is an illusion, dont fall for the trap that one headphone is dramatically better, it's all in the FR at your ears. Openness may make a difference but it's vastly overshadowed by FR.

My take : If you enjoy your headphones, just stick with em, the grass is not greener on the other side. It's all placebo and confirmation bias, people buy expensive stuff and gaslight themselves into thinking there's sound quality improvements. If the HD600 is comfy, just eq it to your tastes, or get a pair of speakers if you want real soundstage. Something as simple as the Edifier MR3 is still available.

At the end of the day, find something nice sounding and comfy and stick with it. It doesn't get much better unless you're someone knee deep into the "audiophile" hobby and need to spend loads to feel anything.

It's crazy how much you contradicted yourself in simple post: from "Frequency Response" (FR), "resonance" to "soundstage myth", "Openness may make a difference", "placebo/confirmation bias", "gaslighting themselves"... You missed "distortion"...

Then you literally (yet indirectly/paraphrasing) write, "boosting mids brings more attention to the reverb parts, boosting soundstage"...

Headphones clearly have FR and resonance variations. You can hear sound quality differences from one brand to the next, and one model to the next. If headphones have a flawed frequency response, resonance and distortion, which would affect soundstage, then it's not just "placebo/confirmation bias, gaslighting one's self", much less a "myth".

 

[Jiraya369]

It's crazy how much you contradicted yourself in simple post: from "Frequency Response" (FR), "resonance" to "soundstage myth", "Openness may make a difference", "placebo/confirmation bias", "gaslighting themselves"... You missed "distortion"...

Then you literally (yet indirectly/paraphrasing) write, "boosting mids brings more attention to the reverb parts, boosting soundstage"...

Headphones clearly have FR and resonance variations. You can hear sound quality differences from one brand to the next, and one model to the next. If headphones have a flawed frequency response, resonance and distortion, which would affect soundstage, then it's not just "placebo/confirmation bias, gaslighting one's self", much less a "myth".

soundstage means the stage in which sounds are set in. When playing things from headphones it's an artificial stage, all baked into the song file. When boosting FR you change the soundstage of the song, not your headphones if that makes sense.

a 60 degree dispersion speaker is going to have a wider soundstage than a 40 degree one. Play the same track with lowered mids on the 40 degree one and the sound will seem distant.

I did not contradict anything, soundstage on headphones is a myth, people just dont know what they're talking about.

FR and resonance variations are all there is, sound quality is just FR you can just eq it all there's no other special sauce, openness MIGHT make a difference but it's not gonna be as massive as a simple 1-2 db boost or dip in FR.

If you have a proper point go ahead and tell me, if you want to pull stuff out of your rear i dont want to waste more time. I've explained myself enough.