TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

[cbracer]

We've been there before! (it wouldn't be an improvement for me). I'm just trying to uphold the standards of the forum - no one person's personally tuned EQ to their own target curve is going to be better for the majority than the Target Curve that Harman came up with their research. You're welcome to have your own Target Curve that you think is great, but don't push it down other people's throats, there's no reason why they'd like it more than the Harman Curve - in fact they'd like it less on average - do the research that Harman did & then push it down people's throats but until that point just accept your target curve as being your own personal favourite target - there's no rational proven basis for your target, just accept that, enjoy your EQ & leave it at that, don't give people false expectations that your personally created target curve is valid for anyone else - it just isn't.

You think the Harman curve is better for the "majority" ? That's simply not true. Sorry. The latest curve these are turned to have too much base extending up and making the mid range sound thin. Seems the many would agree with that. There are better curves for different music, and I think classical probably sound best on the latest Harman curve but not mainstream music. I'm sorry but the Harman curve for IEM is simply not right. I never spent much time with IEM before this, I spent time listening to regular speakers. Going to the Truthear Zero was like a few cranks of added bass. They are amazing IEMs, clear, low distortion, handles loud volume, wonderful if you EQ them. And I don't care which curve "you" like, but don't drink the Harman water and assume their research is always the best.

 

[SalutaryGraveness]

Question for the experts:

I ordered the Qudelix 5K for these. Balanced 2.5mm or unbalanced 3.5mm cable ? The iem is 10ohms (35ohms for bass) with 75mV required for 94dB
According to my "math", the Q5K at full power unbalanced might provide 94dB, but balanced can go way higher so overkill.

 

[SalutaryGraveness]

And I don't care which curve "you" like, but don't drink the Harman water and assume their research is always the best.

It is the best in the sense that it is the only one that you really have right now.

 

[Chromatischism]

Thanks for the efforts on the EQ experiments. The various proposed EQs certainly effect the sound but don't satisfy me. The stock tuning is still my preferred once I figured out the ear tips that gave me the best fit and performance. The various EQs all take something away that I value. I guess the stock tuning aligns well with my preference.

Nothing wrong with that. I do suspect that different tips could change the sound, which could explain some of the different experiences. We know that insertion depth and bore size make a difference to the bass/treble balance.

By the way, if you're curious, this is basically what I hear with the Truthear Zero at stock:

 

[Chromatischism]

I bought the Salnotes Zero too. They sound just like my Starfield. Better balance of bass than the Truthear x Zero. They are not as clear, and have more distortion, but for a $20 version of the Starfield it's my go to on the airplane. If you don't want to EQ then it's the best value out there. If Amir wants to test them I'd gladly send them to him!

Are the Salnotes using an ear-hugging design or is it more like the Truthear Zero that holds on with just the tip?

Careful on the plane. Use foam tips for the best attenuation of the background noise level. My measurements put it at 95-105 dB, and extended periods of that can be damaging. Foam can take 20 dB off, silicone does less. On top of that, we are inclined to use a higher volume level to reach satisfaction due to the lower SNR, without being aware of the total dB reaching our ears.

 

[Chromatischism]

Thanks for the efforts on the EQ experiments. The various proposed EQs certainly effect the sound but don't satisfy me. The stock tuning is still my preferred once I figured out the ear tips that gave me the best fit and performance. The various EQs all take something away that I value. I guess the stock tuning aligns well with my preference.

Also, here is some of the content I use for listening. I use Deezer, but here are Spotify links. Sorry, I can't seem to prevent the forum from doing this...

 

[GeekyBastard]

Anyone read the small user manual inside the inner box yet? Mine came with a manual for an IEM called "HEXA", but apparently "HEXA" was not this "Zero" one, it's Truthear's next generation IEM (79.99$, not published yet, L7Audiolab's website got its pictures), is this a mistake, or they just didn't bother to print another version of the user manual?
Edit: Upon further investigation, apparently they printed both "HEXA" and "ZERO" 's manual on the same paper, back to back... Hmmm...

 

[Robbo99999]

You think the Harman curve is better for the "majority" ? That's simply not true. Sorry. The latest curve these are turned to have too much base extending up and making the mid range sound thin. Seems the many would agree with that. There are better curves for different music, and I think classical probably sound best on the latest Harman curve but not mainstream music. I'm sorry but the Harman curve for IEM is simply not right. I never spent much time with IEM before this, I spent time listening to regular speakers. Going to the Truthear Zero was like a few cranks of added bass. They are amazing IEMs, clear, low distortion, handles loud volume, wonderful if you EQ them. And I don't care which curve "you" like, but don't drink the Harman water and assume their research is always the best.

That's your opinion, nothing more, until you've done research/studies to determine a new curve that proves to be better than the Harman Curve then yours is just an opinion. The Harman Curve started out roughly as an objective measurement of good speakers in a room and then it was tweaked in bass & treble for greatest preference by participants in a study, so a large part of the Harman Curve is that it's proven to be preferred by the majority in that study. So you can't actually say that another target curve is better in terms of greater preference for the majority until you or someone else does some comparable research/studies. I don't object to people not liking the Harman Curve, and they're fine of course to tweak around that or indeed use any target they want, but you can't be saying that the Harman Curve is not better for the majority until another target has been proven to be preferred by more people - it's just that simple.

 

[Robbo99999]

No claims are being made as to "perfection" for anyone but myself. But by fixing the flaws, it should be closer for most.

(Nope - (as already discussed))

 

[asrUser]

That's your opinion, nothing more, until you've done research/studies to determine a new curve that proves to be better than the Harman Curve then yours is just an opinion. The Harman Curve started out roughly as an objective measurement of good speakers in a room and then it was tweaked in bass & treble for greatest preference by participants in a study, so a large part of the Harman Curve is that it's proven to be preferred by the majority in that study. So you can't actually say that another target curve is better in terms of greater preference for the majority until you or someone else does some comparable research/studies. I don't object to people not liking the Harman Curve, and they're fine of course to tweak around that or indeed use any target they want, but you can't be saying that the Harman Curve is not better for the majority until another target has been proven to be preferred by more people - it's just that simple.

I think it's more like the Harman target is supposed to be a great average target across all kinds of music. It doesn't mean it's best suited for every single song out there. Is the currently heard song way too bassy? Then I rather want to EQ to a more neutral or even flat target (see Crinacle's target at bass). Too shouty or edgy song? Let's reduce the treble.

 

[Robbo99999]

I think it's more like the Harman target is supposed to be a great average target across all kinds of music. It doesn't mean it's best suited for every single song out there. Is the currently heard song way too bassy? Then I rather want to EQ to a more neutral or even flat target (see Crinacle's target at bass). Too shouty or edgy song? Let's reduce the treble.

There's an argument for using broad tone controls with different recordings, as it's true that some are recorded with different tonalities, but I've found that a good target curve covers pretty much all music fine. I don't actually use tone controls on a per track basis, I just keep it at one target that works well with all - both on my speakers (which is anechoic flat) and on my headphones which is Harman or a small variation on that depending on the headphone in question. I think a good target curve will make most of your material very listenable, which is probably the key to a good target curve.

 

[AdamG]

Question for the experts:

I ordered the Qudelix 5K for these. Balanced 2.5mm or unbalanced 3.5mm cable ? The iem is 10ohms (35ohms for bass) with 75mV required for 94dB
According to my "math", the Q5K at full power unbalanced might provide 94dB, but balanced can go way higher so overkill.

Yes and no, I have exact setup, in balance mode you can blow the cobwebs out of your head. Along with eardrum pieces if you’re not careful. There is a global max volume setting that you can engage for exactly this situation. Be very careful. They are very low distortion and sound clean at pretty loud levels. Sometimes distortion has a silver lining. In Bal mode it’s always good to have lots of extra power available for peaks and wide dynamic range music. Lower you drive most amps the cleaner they sound. Imho, having this depth of reserve is not overkill. It’s precisely perfect.

 

[SalutaryGraveness]

There is a global max volume setting that you can engage for exactly this situation.

Oh, thats a nice feature!. I also ordered a cheap balanced cable for the sake of completeness.
I am assuming these are ok? https://a.co/d/aY0Wm5N

But now that you put it that way, why not just enjoy more headroom like moving in to a mansion.

 

[AdamG]

Oh, thats a nice feature!. I also ordered a cheap balanced cable for the sake of completeness.
I am assuming these are ok? https://a.co/d/aY0Wm5N

But now that you put it that way, why not just enjoy more headroom like moving in to a mansion.

I actually have about 4 sets of these exact cables. High quality and comfort. Little to no cable noise. Nice feeling braided sheathing. The best cables by far I have ever found and at such a great price. You made a perfect choice and I think you will love them. Took me years to stumble upon these. Good job finding them so quickly. By the way I have never recommended them here before. Because I fear once word get out how really good these are for pennies on the dollar they will go out of stock and prices will go up. So, the cat is officially out of the bag. Best IEM Cables for the money right here…

 

[Chromatischism]

(Nope - (as already discussed))

Yup. These IEM's do not follow Harman, Etymotic, IEF, or any other known tuning. They overshoot. That is not an opinion, it has been measured, and heard. EQ makes them far more neutral. They have all but admitted so by releasing another IEM with more of a cut (as there should be) beyond 3 kHz.

 

[GaryH]

Yup. These IEM's do not follow Harman, Etymotic, IEF, or any other known tuning. They overshoot. That is not an opinion, it has been measured, and heard. EQ makes them far more neutral.

Not your EQ. That grossly undershoots the Harman target.

 

[Alexium]

Not your EQ. That grossly undershoots the Harman target.

Have you tried it? Do these IEMs sound better to you without EQ than with Chromatischism's EQ?

P. S. Is there a quick way to toggle everything - all the changes - on and off in Equalizer APO?

 

[oleg87]

Have you tried it? Do these IEMs sound better to you without EQ than with Chromatischism's EQ?

P. S. Is there a quick way to toggle everything - all the changes - on and off in Equalizer APO?

You can save a chain of filters to a configuration file (note that shift+selecting multiple filters and copy+pasting them works), put an “include” thingy in your top level configuration pointing to that file, and turn it on and off as you see fit.

 

[Chromatischism]

Not your EQ. That grossly undershoots the Harman target.

Maybe, just maybe, the Harman target is also a problem. I know that's hard for some people to hear, because they assume it must be "right". We have another thread going for that. Mine ends up closer to Etymotic or IEF and it sounds worlds better. The highs are all there, without being glaring or fatiguing. And the mids are much better as well. Even when the Zeros are brought down to Harman, they still sound awful to me and music is not enjoyable. You can try Crinacle's AutoEQ to both Harman and IEF to listen for yourself. More people need to do these experiments and report their findings. And they need to use the right material. Slow jazz, for example, or just a solo voice, will NOT reveal the problems. Music that is closer to full-spectrum, or pink noise, is best. In fact, Anthony Grimani just uses pink noise itself. I'm not trained with pink noise like he is so I use material that is dense and covers the full spectrum, backed up by sweeps to identify resonances. When I AutoEQ to IEF Neutral, it sounds close to mine, only you need to add the bass yourself. The bass contour of my EQ matches two subwoofers in a room, +6 dB at 20 Hz, merging down by 100 Hz. Music that reveals congested mids on some speakers and IEMs when the bass extends too high, is perfectly clear here, with bass that hits hard and goes deep when it should.

Look back a few posts where I showed what I hear with the Zero stock tuning. That Polk speaker measurement is awfully close.

P. S. Is there a quick way to toggle everything - all the changes - on and off in Equalizer APO?

I am using PEACE on top of APO and there is an ON/OFF toggle at the top right corner. If EAPO doesn't have that feature, I would try that. Also, I'd like to know if what you get from that sounds the same as Wavelet.

 

[Alexium]

I am using PEACE on top of APO and there is an ON/OFF toggle at the top right corner. If EAPO doesn't have that feature, I would try that. Also, I'd like to know if what you get from that sounds the same as Wavelet.

Thanks!
I'm only listening on a PC and don't know what's that Wavelet thing, is it available on PC?