They both fit me fine but they are very similar. Nozzle dimensions are identical, and quite wide (5.7 / 6.7mm on the lip) which some people have issues with. Not as big as something like the Blessing 2 / Variations but on the wide side.
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TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review
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So the "project red" mystery is solved: the "Truthear x Crinacle Zero: Red" is a re-tuned Zero with less shout, more mid shelf, more subbass focus and an optional "Bass+" mode/switch to increase bass. Guessing some +10% price increase would make it 55 usd?
crinacle.com
Or putting the original Zero as reference, comparatively, the Red Bass+ is a tilt down, warmer version.
Red looks more brown if that is the final color.
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crinacle.com
Or putting the original Zero as reference, comparatively, the Red Bass+ is a tilt down, warmer version.
Red looks more brown if that is the final color.
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Think I like the look of the frequency response of the original better.So the "project red" mystery is solved: the "Truthear x Crinacle Zero: Red" is a re-tuned Zero with less shout, more mid shelf, more subbass focus and an optional "Bass+" mode/switch to increase bass. Guessing some +10% price increase would make it 55 usd?
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View attachment 284443
Or putting the original Zero as reference, comparatively, the Red Bass+ is a tilt down, warmer version.
View attachment 284447
Red looks more brown if that is the final color.
View attachment 284449
With Bass+ disabled, Red should be a more "mid centric version" comparatively.
BTW Red without Bass+ looks almost identical to the also Crinacle-tuned 7Hz Salnotes Zero, which I own 2 and love. This is making the Red more and more tempting...
(I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs...)
crinacle.com
(I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs...)
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crinacle.com
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What is interesting to me is that its pretty clear with Red and the Salnotes Zero he was aiming at his 2020 IEF neutral target with a bass shelf (see first pic below)BTW Red without Bass+ looks almost identical to the also Crinacle-tuned 7Hz Salnotes Zero, which I own 2 and love. This is making the Red more and more tempting...
(I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs...)
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View attachment 284474
Yet both have a fairly noticeable deficiency in the 1-2k region when compared to his new 2023 target (with bass boost)
I suppose future collabs will probably head towards the new target- as a differentiator from the current crop.
EDIT money says that the in development B3 Dusk is @crinacle first collab that tracks the 2023 ief (plus bass shelf) more than the 2020.
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A new waifu. Almost looks like a strawberry.
I won't buy them though because of fit issues.
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Your graphs are already with Bass+ disabled, I think I've worked that out from your posts.
VQR
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Essentially this looks like a sidegrade depending on if you want less midrange. This seems tailored for the people who prefered to EQ some midrange reduction on their stock TxC Zero. I wonder if the bass on the Red will vary due to impedence swings like the TxC Zero?So the "project red" mystery is solved: the "Truthear x Crinacle Zero: Red" is a re-tuned Zero with less shout, more mid shelf, more subbass focus and an optional "Bass+" mode/switch to increase bass. Guessing some +10% price increase would make it 55 usd?
In-Ear Fidelity – IEM Graph Comparison Tool
Easily compare industry-standard frequency response measurements of hundreds and hundreds of IEMs.
View attachment 284443
Or putting the original Zero as reference, comparatively, the Red Bass+ is a tilt down, warmer version.
View attachment 284447
Red looks more brown if that is the final color.
View attachment 284449
Upper midrange reduction, specifically. It has more lower midrange than the Zero has and I think will sound more rather than less midrange forward. I'd see it as reduction in upper mids (which to me is a positive) and a smoother glide down from the sub-bass, with more mid-bass (also a positive, most of the time, sounds more natural and less "thin" but at a cost of sounding less clean).
It should react to impedance the same way as the Zero does, my understanding, that's how the bass switch works, toggling in a resistor. He had graphs posted earlier of Red prototypes with and without a 10Ω resistor, and the 10Ω one showed this bass boost behaviour.
I own Moondrop Lan, which bears a family resemblance:
It's designed by the same engineers as Truthear. It's a 1DD design vs 2DD of Zero/Red. This might be a plus if a more consistent FR is required from different sources.
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_listener_
Member
Just because I'm seeing the comparison pop up a few times, this is one where the B&K 5128 shows us an interesting bit of information in the treble that may differentiate the experience to listeners more than 711 graphs would suggest.
Look at the difference between Zero: Red and Salnotes Zero in the treble, specifically around 12kHz! This peak is definitely audible on the Salnotes Zero I have on hand, and definitely wasn't present on the pre-production Zero: Red I heard at CanJam.
Target is the DF HRTF of the 5128 tilted downwards by -0.8dB/octave.
Look at the difference between Zero: Red and Salnotes Zero in the treble, specifically around 12kHz! This peak is definitely audible on the Salnotes Zero I have on hand, and definitely wasn't present on the pre-production Zero: Red I heard at CanJam.
Target is the DF HRTF of the 5128 tilted downwards by -0.8dB/octave.
In the past I gave my subjective impression for 7Hz Zero, that I hear a hot spot in the treble. 12kHz is outside the confidence range of the IEC 60318-4. No surprises here if BK 5128 picks something up IEC 60318-4 doesn't. Only assuming it's real, and not a measurement artifact. I have accepted that IEC 60318-4 measurements are more illustrative in this range, and subjective evaluation is required for the full picture.
However, I don't think I hear a 9kHz dip like the BK5128 measures. Moondrop Lan also measures with a 9kHz dip on BK5128 which I don't hear. Furthermore a 400Hz dip on almost every set, and a dip between 100-200Hz on most sets which I don't hear. I'll note that the target curve you are referencing, based on one provided by B&K AFAIK, has a smooth response up to 500Hz.
_listener_
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Did you mean less illustrative? I agree if so, though tbf even the B&K's data up there needs subjective assessment to confirm (which I was able to do with Salnotes Zero).
I've been told the wiggles between 100-200Hz are the result of a spring-mass resonance formed by the weight of the IEM vs. the surface tension of the eartip in the canal entrance. This resonance gets excited (depending on the interaction between these two factors) by a certain frequency and this causes the IEM to move while the sweep is playing. The material that the 5128's ear canal entrance is made of isn't exactly "skin," so I don't think this feature shows up on humans (but interestingly, it also shows up on 711 coupler + pinna setups eg. GRAS 45CA if you keep the pinna on the system). Blu-tack to keep the IEM in place removes this feature.
Not sure about the 9kHz dip, as I did hear it on my Salnotes Zero but frankly I don't have many IEMs to test against. I'll have Project Red soon enough to confirm its' veracity to my own ear.
The 400Hz dip is a lot harder to explain and frankly no one has a convincing answer as of yet. Crin seems to think it's a feature of the canal itself (similar to the GRAS pinnae's sharp 9kHz dip) but I've seen no evidence to explain that yet. Especially since I've seen this dip move downward in frequency with deeper insertion IEMs like the Etymotics.
What we need is in-canal measurements of 711 couplers, 4620 couplers, and human ears to compare and see if this dip shows up at all on humans.
However, I did find that correcting this 400Hz dip with EQ served a subjective improvement to timbre. That's just the voice of one person though
@_listener_
I'll counter with an example of BK5128 making sets look different than they sound, and look similar to different sounding sets.
TCZ gets critisized for an "unnatural" treble, Lan treble gets described as smooth. BK5128 makes it look like TCZ is the smoother one vs. Lan.
TCZ mids are described as "shouty", Lans mids don't get negative remarks. BK5128 measures the mids almost identically.
This would beg the question if BK5128 measurements are misleading, or if the subjective differences are contributions from other parts of the FR. EQ matching functions will be interesting avenues to investigate further. Just to still my curiosity. Everyone can do their own tests, just until more robust data addresses some of the unsolicited a priori arguments pushing BK5128.
I'll counter with an example of BK5128 making sets look different than they sound, and look similar to different sounding sets.
TCZ gets critisized for an "unnatural" treble, Lan treble gets described as smooth. BK5128 makes it look like TCZ is the smoother one vs. Lan.
TCZ mids are described as "shouty", Lans mids don't get negative remarks. BK5128 measures the mids almost identically.
This would beg the question if BK5128 measurements are misleading, or if the subjective differences are contributions from other parts of the FR. EQ matching functions will be interesting avenues to investigate further. Just to still my curiosity. Everyone can do their own tests, just until more robust data addresses some of the unsolicited a priori arguments pushing BK5128.
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I am typing this with the Salnotes Zero on and have just swept around 12 kHz and heard no such huge peak. Or maybe I am getting deaf? lol
We talked about it already, but I'd really make a distinction between the overall alteration of the SPL ratio below 800Hz or so and above, which is a product of the 5128 being more representative of the average human ear canal (dotted white trace), and the 400Hz dip specifically (red circle) - which is particularly prevalent with Crin's measurements.
Just like you I'd like to know more about its origin, but intuitively the first thing I'd do, given how the 5128 is constructed (is it me or the coupler is only attached to the pinna / canal silicone combo, and then only the latter attached to the HATS - and in the case of Crinacle to nothing ?), would be to try to securely couple the coupler / pinna combo to a stable mount, or use a massive load of putty to couple it all together.
We do have some
(CSGlinux). cf above.The rocking modes around 100-200Hz probably.
The 400Hz dip possibly. I have seen neither in the few in situ IEM measurements I've looked at, but it's possible still that in some specific situations it happens in humans as well.
The overall alteration between below 800Hz or so and above, nope, that's just a better representation of the average ear canal.
At really high frequencies individual variation starts to get very high (cf link above) and you have to combine it with insertion depth (and different IEMs react differently to a similar variation in insertion depth), so it's going to be a bit of a crapshoot anyway.
Since (cf article linked above) the difference between two individuals in terms of acoustic impedance in the 20-5000kHz range seems to me to possibly be just as important as the difference between 711 and 5128 couplers, I'd also wonder if we could see quite important differences between individuals in that range as well.
F1308
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I own both, the 7Hz and the Zero.BTW Red without Bass+ looks almost identical to the also Crinacle-tuned 7Hz Salnotes Zero, which I own 2 and love. This is making the Red more and more tempting...
(I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs, I don't need another pair of IEMs...)
In-Ear Fidelity – IEM Graph Comparison Tool
Easily compare industry-standard frequency response measurements of hundreds and hundreds of IEMs.
View attachment 284474
First to arrive was the 7Hz, which I loved for the week the Zeros needed to reach my ears.
Once the Zero are listened to, once you like everything you hear even when you don't like it (funny !!!!), realize the 7Hz was a good start, but far behind the Zero.
I am reading about a Red Zero...????
About to get another three right away.
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