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TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

Rate this IEM

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 12 2.5%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 16 3.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 61 12.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 400 81.8%

  • Total voters
    489

abdo123

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When I've analysed music specturally through Audacity, then I think you could get away with saying that a lot of music is High Passed at 30Hz, but not 40Hz - ie there's not a lot of music with meaningful content below 30Hz.

Here is a random pop song I pulled off YouTube, you can see it's already -12 dB at 40Hz, and it's already at the noise floor at 20Hz.

1670166743327.png
 

Robbo99999

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Here is a random pop song I pulled off YouTube, you can see it's already -12 dB at 40Hz, and it's already at the noise floor at 20Hz.

View attachment 247781
That's true for that one track, but then I can show you some the same graph but for multiple tracks from Massive Attack:
A number of tracks graphed together:
Massive Attack, Spectrum Analysis.jpg


And then here's the same as above but with an average trend line between them all:
Massive Attack, Spectrum Analysis - Average Line.jpg


So to me that's an example of bass heavy music, not the most extreme example, but a good example, and what you have there is meaningful content down to 35Hz, and you could probably say that below 30Hz there is not much going on apart from two of the tracks. I can't agree with you that it's "brickwalled at 40Hz", and don't forget this an overall representation of the whole of each track, so there are gonna be moments in time where SPL at any given frequency is gonna be significantly higher than each of the lines portrayed in this graph - with that in mind I'd be quite confident to say from these graphs that there's not much happening below 30Hz apart from in two of them (Teardrop & Karmacoma) - and this certainly doesn't align with you saying that music is "High Pass brickwalled at 40Hz".
 

abdo123

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That's true for that one track, but then I can show you some the same graph but for multiple tracks from Massive Attack:
A number of tracks graphed together:
View attachment 247785

And then here's the same as above but with an average trend line between them all:
View attachment 247784


So to me that's an example of bass heavy music, not the most extreme example, but a good example, and what you have there is meaningful content down to 35Hz, and you could probably say that below 30Hz there is not much going on apart from two of the tracks. I can't agree with you that it's "brickwalled at 40Hz", and don't forget this an overall representation of the whole of each track, so there are gonna be moments in time where SPL at any given frequency is gonna be significantly higher than each of the lines portrayed in this graph - with that in mind I'd be quite confident to say from these graphs that there's not much happening below 30Hz apart from in two of them (Teardrop & Karmacoma) - and this certainly doesn't align with you saying that music is "High Pass brickwalled at 40Hz".

Not trying to be rude but the response in the average graph seems to nosedive below 40Hz, this is text book definition to me for “brickwalled at 40Hz.”

I don’t see why you still disagree with me.
 

Robbo99999

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Not trying to be rude but the response in the average graph seems to nosedive below 40Hz, this is text book definition to me for “brickwalled at 40Hz.”

I don’t see why you still disagree with me.
Well it depends what you mean by "brickwalled". We have to be aware that there are moments in track that greatly exceed the line in the graph, simply because each line is an average of that frequency, so actually you can see that there would be moments that would greatly exceed that line. It does indeed start to drop off more at 40Hz, but it's not until 35Hz that it accelerates it's drop, and to me there are two tracks there that could have momentary meaningful content below 30Hz - so I think it's wrong to say it's "brickwalled at 40Hz" as the graphs don't support that statement. You could make an argument for a relaxed 35Hz High Pass as an average on those tracks, but two of those tracks don't conform to that shape - and that's not also considering the fact that these are averages of the whole track - as I said there will be momentary points where SPL is significantly higher and noticeable - it's not accurate to say that they are "brickwall high passed at 40Hz", it just doesn't support that....you couldn't even say "brickwall high passed at 30Hz" for two of those tracks, nor even "brickwalled high passed at 20Hz" for one of them.

(In fact, the the way they tail off to 10Hz then you can't say any of them are brick wall high passed at any frequency as they plateau out to 10Hz, they're not "diving" to zero.)
 

Karmacoma

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That is an odd target - with an early bump at 2k, and another at 5k? 5 kHz is the most bothersome resonance (to me) and I can't get on with a raise there. Interesting though.
Looked very odd to me as well yet i liked it so much i ignored i saw it, left brain right brain conflict. I remain open to try new EQs from the assembly if anyone wants to share. Good to learn i like an old Harman curve. Amazed to see how far from the old target these iems seem to be in the high mids.
 

markanini

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EDIT: re your 40Hz High Pass comment, that's ridiculous - there's plenty of content in music below 40Hz!
No he's right it's common practice. The missing fundamental effect is been exploited by producers to create the illusion of very low pitches, acutal content below 40Hz is filtered out as it comes with the risk of causing havoc on some reproduction equipment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental
 

Chyżwar

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It’s difficult for me to believe everyone’s claims that 1.5 dB off target is SOOOO noticeably bright.

Mine will arrive on monday, will see what happens.

Edit: also it’s an industry standard to brickwall highpass everything under 40Hz so i hardly think that’s an issue either.

I don't think there are any "industry standards" for music production :) High pass filters are most commonly used on non-bass tracks in a mix. It's not like everything is cut out, rather no one cuts out the sub bass from the double bass, for example :)

But in general I agree with you, 1.5 dB is really a small difference.
 
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isostasy

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Well it depends what you mean by "brickwalled". We have to be aware that there are moments in track that greatly exceed the line in the graph, simply because each line is an average of that frequency, so actually you can see that there would be moments that would greatly exceed that line. It does indeed start to drop off more at 40Hz, but it's not until 35Hz that it accelerates it's drop, and to me there are two tracks there that could have momentary meaningful content below 30Hz - so I think it's wrong to say it's "brickwalled at 40Hz" as the graphs don't support that statement. You could make an argument for a relaxed 35Hz High Pass as an average on those tracks, but two of those tracks don't conform to that shape - and that's not also considering the fact that these are averages of the whole track - as I said there will be momentary points where SPL is significantly higher and noticeable - it's not accurate to say that they are "brickwall high passed at 40Hz", it just doesn't support that....you couldn't even say "brickwall high passed at 30Hz" for two of those tracks, nor even "brickwalled high passed at 20Hz" for one of them.

(In fact, the the way they tail off to 10Hz then you can't say any of them are brick wall high passed at any frequency as they plateau out to 10Hz, they're not "diving" to zero.)

I fully admit I'm cluless on this but surely a "40Hz brickwall" also can't apply to any music with an acoustic bass instrument tuned lower than E1 (41.2Hz)? In rock music there are bands who play half-step down, so the lowest note would be Eb (38.9Hz), or even drop D (36.7Hz). 5 string basses are also in common use across all popular genres and they are usually tuned to B0 (30.9Hz), though I admit the open B0 is rarely used.
 

Robbo99999

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No he's right it's common practice. The missing fundamental effect is been exploited by producers to create the illusion of very low pitches, acutal content below 40Hz is filtered out as it comes with the risk of causing havoc on some reproduction equipment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental
No, he's not right, the data proves it, I don't think there's much denying that. Even discounting that, not that you can, then it would make a mockery of having equipment that can play down to 20Hz. But anyway, the data I showed proves there's content below 40Hz, it's kinda crazy to suggest otherwise. There's also a "bassheads thread" on here where people post spectrograms of music and there's some tracks out there with insanely low bass, so it's not just my little snippet of analysed tracks that proves it.....there's more bass heavy music than the stuff I posted.
 

Robbo99999

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I fully admit I'm cluless on this but surely a "40Hz brickwall" also can't apply to any music with an acoustic bass instrument tuned lower than E1 (41.2Hz)? In rock music there are bands who play half-step down, so the lowest note would be Eb (38.9Hz), or even drop D (36.7Hz). 5 string basses are also in common use across all popular genres and they are usually tuned to B0 (30.9Hz), though I admit the open B0 is rarely used.
You know more about those instruments than I do, but yes that supports the importance of some types of music having content at 30Hz - in which case as you rightly say a 40Hz brickwall could not apply.

EDIT: Perhaps there are music producers out there that choose not to produce content below 40Hz, either because that's just the type of music they're making or they're doing it for other reasons, but it's certainly not the case for every track out there, and there's certainly enough artists and music types that don't feel the need to apply a brickwall high pass at 40Hz to their music, and I'm pleased they don't limit themselves!

EDIT#2: I appreciate that during the recording process that artists & engineers will high pass some of their musical elements during the recording process to reduce unwanted background noise & "random rumble" or just if the very low end is getting too heavy, but that doesn't mean they'd do it to the whole track - if they want to include elements that reach low then they will let those elements reach low, but say if they were recording vocals seperately then I can certainly envisage them using a High Pass to eliminate background noise or rumble that is not part of the musicality......but then they might blend that vocal with some real or synthetic bass drums that can reach down to say 20Hz - so for sure some elements of music production use High Passes during the production of the track, but that doesn't mean that the track itself can't end up having content below 40Hz. (I'm just free thinking on this & putting together the snippets I've read.)
 
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Chyżwar

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I fully admit I'm cluless on this but surely a "40Hz brickwall" also can't apply to any music with an acoustic bass instrument tuned lower than E1 (41.2Hz)? In rock music there are bands who play half-step down, so the lowest note would be Eb (38.9Hz), or even drop D (36.7Hz). 5 string basses are also in common use across all popular genres and they are usually tuned to B0 (30.9Hz), though I admit the open B0 is rarely used.

High-pass filters are most often used on individual tracks in a mix (or in other words on individual instruments), not to cut out all the sub bass from a song :) And it's done for specific purposes. For example, you have the drums and synthesizer and the synthesizer has a lot of unnecessary energy in the low end. So if you use a high-pass filter on the synthesizer track, the drums will start to sound transparent, there will be more impact, more dynamics.
But these are technical details about music production that are really unrelated to the Truthear headphones :)
 

Phorize

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High-pass filters are most often used on individual tracks in a mix (or in other words on individual instruments), not to cut out all the sub bass from a song :) And it's done for specific purposes. For example, you have the drums and synthesizer and the synthesizer has a lot of unnecessary energy in the low end. So if you use a high-pass filter on the synthesizer track, the drums will start to sound transparent, there will be more impact, more dynamics.
But these are technical details about music production that are really unrelated to the Truthear headphones :)
Interesting though, thanks for posting.
 

Robbo99999

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High-pass filters are most often used on individual tracks in a mix (or in other words on individual instruments), not to cut out all the sub bass from a song :) And it's done for specific purposes. For example, you have the drums and synthesizer and the synthesizer has a lot of unnecessary energy in the low end. So if you use a high-pass filter on the synthesizer track, the drums will start to sound transparent, there will be more impact, more dynamics.
But these are technical details about music production that are really unrelated to the Truthear headphones :)
(which is what I was pointing to in my last post)
 

Fregly

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I'm a science guy through and through, but the Harman IEM target sounds really bad. It's not even close to neutral speakers in a room for me. Objective analysis shows a bright tilt, even, so it needs more work to get it closer to a neutral average.
Well this is the issue. I dislike Harman as well, yet have not had my hearing tested to know my particular troughs and peaks in sensitivity across the frequency range, or whatever erratic perception I may have. Then again, my hearing may be accurate and people who like Harman do not actually know what an orchestra etc sounds like, and around here particularly perhaps are just a lot of higher iq bassheads.
 

MrBrainwash

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Yes, he's using the latest IEM target from Harman, IE2019v2.
It's not a very popular target among enthusiasts though, with many people perceiving it as shrill, shouty due to an excess 3-6kHz.
Harman's headphone target, OE2018, seems much more accepted to me.

When I equlized IEMs to OE2018 the sound felt as muted to me in that region. Then I discovered that IE2019v2 addressed this and I thought it make sense. Does someone know the logic behind this trick? I don't have any problem with Zero, thankfully.

Edit: also it’s an industry standard to brickwall highpass everything under 40Hz so i hardly think that’s an issue either.

I am aware that we don't hear lowest fr (bellow 40-50hz) that well then It might not be a direct problem. But I still think that it can affect perception of higher tones. I don't know if this is my confabulation or not but (from memory) Amir in his review of some headphones explained tak boosting this lower fr makes sound more realistic for some reason and it might be placebo but my observation start register this effect. ;)

My conclution is that drop below 40Hz we see in Zero might not be a problem but it affects how we hear them.
 

markanini

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then it would make a mockery of having equipment that can play down to 20Hz
This is how your bias is leading you to false conclusions. Professional recordings are processed to work on a variety of equipment, not something in the upper 1%. Other than cherry picking a single artist for your data...
 

half_dog

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I am aware that we don't hear lowest fr (bellow 40-50hz) that well then It might not be a direct problem.
I don't know if I'm a outlier, but I can hear infrasounds without much effort. It was confirmed by me after buying a Moondrop Kato (check its frequency response at rting measurements) and HD280 PRO MKII (although it doesn't have as much sub bass extension as Kato's). I did some measurements as well using a DIY rig of Aria, Starfield and Kato. These two have a similar FR but Kato has much more infrasound extension giving it much more punch ánd body over Starfield and even Aria - which has more sub bass but rolls off earlier.

Summarizing, for me, audio equipments which can reproduce below 20Hz bring more/new informations from the content.

 

Robbo99999

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This is how your bias is leading you to false conclusions. Professional recordings are processed to work on a variety of equipment, not something in the upper 1%. Other than cherry picking a single artist for your data...
Don't just cherrypick one part of my post. I urge people to go back and read the whole post you're quoting, as nothing much more needs to be said on this. You're not correct in your assertions re tracks having no content below 40Hz, it's ridiculous.
 

isostasy

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This is how your bias is leading you to false conclusions. Professional recordings are processed to work on a variety of equipment, not something in the upper 1%. Other than cherry picking a single artist for your data...
As I already pointed out above, in popular music tuning down half a step or more is extremely common, usually to accommodate the singer's vocal range, and sometimes as a creative choice. In a band with a bass guitar (i.e. pretty much all of them) this means tuning the lowest string down to Eb0, which is 38.9Hz. Down to D0 would be 36.7Hz. There's no cherry picking of the 'upper 1%' going on here.

This is besides the fact that 5 string bass guitars, which have a bottom string tuned to B0 (30.9Hz), have been around and in common use almost as long as the 4 string electric bass, not to mention 5 string double basses before that or, more commonly, 4 string basses with a C extension. Therefore you're attempting to dispute the fact that a wide range of recorded music, spanning at least classical, jazz, rock, and pop from the past few centuries, contains acoustically produced notes below 40Hz.
 
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